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HOW MANY CHILDREN NEED TO DIE BEFORE GUN LAWS CHANGE IN THE USA

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Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
Were at a point that having one with us at all times outweighs everything else. We know no laws will change. No matter where you go today in America you could be shot, no matter what school our kids attend they could be shot. That's unacceptable. With people not willing to compromise on gun laws it's zero sum game so more people will continue to be killed so some people can take their AR's and shoot at targets lol. They will never be used in war!!!. I'm fully aware a ban won't prevent it all but it will help.

I want my gun on me so I can respond to the increased threat we have in today's society. The law needs to realize this.
It's pretty sad when it's our own governments looking the other way when they are not on TV! Once a upon a time in the west, they were on bump stocks, then high capacity mags, then... now the flavour of the month is the AR-15. Which is in all reality nothing more than a defensive weapon. You R f....n right they want to band them fuckers.

What about ghost guns... that is the new threat. They don't even know how to tangle that one. No lobbyist!
 

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
shitloads of folks hunt with them. and what do you see evil in target shooting? others keep them in the corner next to their bed "just in case". myself, i would not hunt with one, too heavy to suit me, and too small of a caliber "in my opinion".. and i keep something a hell of a lot more useful next to the bed "just in case". ARs are now the anti-gun folks fave target because they "look bad", and idiots deliberately call them "assault rifles" or "weapons of war" when they operate no differently (one shot per pull of the trigger) than firearms in general use for decades.
a file will look after that nicely :)
 

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
ever go to a rifle range and watch deer hunters before season? they are a LOT better shots than you are giving them credit for. dressed in the latest camo patterns too. IF they decide to fight, it's gonna be Russian elite (nat. guard) versus wheat farmers (deer hunters) all over again. skills ? you mean marching in step in columns? or hitting what you are shooting at ? plus, you are taking for granted that the Guard troops are willing to shoot at friends and neighbors. i'm not convinced...and you are not convincing.
That is why should SHTF fan for real, it won't be their own troops securing their citizens. A little inside information that has been known for years.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
I understand. But the.......hype(?) I guess, about veterans joining with the traitors to overthrow the United States is always over exaggerated. Earlier in thread, someone, while estimating how many veterans would join in the insurrection, started w the estimated number of veterans alive in the states. Lololololol.

One of my tendencies, as I read or listen to fantastical hopes and scenarios is to respond w the same level of .....rhetoric. I look at it as a favor to future terrorist wannabes ....they should understand that all these scenarios they lay awake at night, pinching their nipples to, are just that: fantasy.
All of that sort of thing tends to be extrapolation, and where extrapolation or presumption is involved, some focus on bright outcomes, others focus on pessimistic outcomes, and others focus on "who the fuck knows? We won't know until or if such an instance comes about."

There's a great many vets and others, including LEOs, who view instruction from the White House, implicit or specific, similarly to Moses' tablets; unquestionable in terms of legitimacy or legality. Trump allegedly played on that, and that defense, though it didn't provide the desired outcome, but rather helped to justify spreading culpability, was even used in recent trials. However brief those trials may have been before the hammer dropped..

Any civil warring would be horrendous. Beirut had approximately 7 different factions at the time the Marine Corps barracks there was blown up. On any given day, those factions might be alligned with each other, or warring with each other, depending.

How many factions might one estimate would be around in the US if such occurrences happened here?
I'd hate to fathom that sort of carnage. I recall the school kids in Bosnia being marched to their schools in their respective uniforms back in that struggle, which served for opposing snipers as a mark of who those kids belonged to. Outrageous carnage.

That would've been during your stint, if I'm correct in my calculations.

Re. arming everyone for the odd mass killings or other unpredictable shootings, my point throughout this is that those incidents tend to occur in the blink of an eye, and the doer already knows what they're going to do in most/many cases; a major advantage over those with their Kydex holsters on their hips in the area of those crimes, who typically have no clue it's about to happen. Element of surprise being a key ingredient to success in any assault, legal or otherwise.

I'll reiterate, everyone strapped hasn't necessarily led to lower crime rates here (quite the contrary), nor necessarily a more polite society. It has led to a number of shootings that were brought about by flared tempers and immature persons, or drunk persons, or high persons, who were not in a position to consider the circumstances in an adult manner, and count to 10.

In fact, just the other day (2 days ago?) out on the road where I used to buy beef, in your former community here, Delta Jct., a fellow shot a dog outside a home, then entered and shot 2 men, later turning himself in to the Fairbanks PD, 100 miles away from his crimes, stating, "I shot a dog." Turned out to be a bit more troubling than that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and wager the 2 dead guys had firearms in their home, and a home surrounding them, too.

Proficiency and thinking/pre-planning about how a situation will go down, well in advance of that situation, like a kata in martial arts, is important.

And that raises the question of who wants to live with that constant level of hyper-vigilance? Been there and done that.
 
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subrob

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i gave nearly the exact number (within 5000 per US govt) of members of the National Guard earlier. is THIS what you are talking about? i'm sure someone someplace could give you an estimate on surviving vet numbers, but that's not what i was talking about, and said so.
No...that wasn't it...and it possibly was 1 of two other discussions I'm in on the same subject. I'd have to go back thru the slog to find out and I don't really want to revisit yesterday's Convo! Lol
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
I'm going to go out on a limb and wager the 2 dead guys had firearms in their home, and a home surrounding them too.
does no one lock their doors anymore? i lock mine even if i'm going out into my own yard to dick around. i'm carrying in both places. yup, even in my house. even on my roof cleaning the gutters. had a paroled convicted felon kill his girlfriend here, stole her car, drove an entire damn mile & shot and killed another person in order to steal HIS vehicle. i guess his girlfriend was too cheap (or dead) to give him any gas money... he'll get what he really needs this trip through the courts, i'd hope.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
does no one lock their doors anymore? i lock mine even if i'm going out into my own yard to dick around. i'm carrying in both places. yup, even in my house. even on my roof cleaning the gutters. had a paroled convicted felon kill his girlfriend here, stole her car, drove an entire damn mile & shot and killed another person in order to steal HIS vehicle. i guess his girlfriend was too cheap (or dead) to give him any gas money... he'll get what he really needs this trip through the courts, i'd hope.
There's these neat locksmith tools that have a trigger like a gun, and a series of hooked pins on the front of the thing. When inserted into most standard locks, squeezing the trigger once in place, they depress the pins inside the lock bolt, unlocking the door with a twist..

No idea if that's what was used. May have had an unlocked door? Or the folks likely knew each other, too. My guess is they knew each other, and the rift was personal.

The home in reference is out on Tanana Loop Extension. Farm folks mostly out that way.
But the place the killings took place is called 'New Hope Community', and all three involved parties had Russian or Ukrainian names. Not sure what the dog's name was. Dog may have been a pup with a name not indicating any ethnic affiliation, like Fido, Boxer, or Sprint, or????
 

Three Berries

Active member
Open carry would stop 99% of mass shootings. And don't forget Chitcago has Mass shootings every week. Assault weapons, whatever you define that as, has nothing to do with it, nor does registering the owners.

Biden passed an Assult Rifle ban when he was Senator and it got repealed.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
What about ghost guns... that is the new threat.
the gun isn't the problem. it is the idiots that illegally sell them to people not allowed to own guns, for obvious reasons. those fools have killed the 80% receivers/kits, but that was inevitable. you can still legally build your own guns, but it is gonna take a lot more than a drill press and a file or two to do it now. probably for the best. i hate to say that, but events change minds...
There's these neat locksmith tools
deadbolt, deadbolt, deadbolt. want in? knock... locking your screen door will only slow them down for a couple of seconds, but whoever is wanting in will be sorry that i had those few seconds to use.
sensitive national security secrets should never be left up to the integrity of politicians
this is the only logical way to use the terms "politician" and "integrity" in the same sentence. i'm aware there are some pols that can be trusted, but there aren't as many as there should be. the good ones get beat, and those that cannot be trusted keep getting re-elected! WTF?
 

moose eater

Well-known member
gotta have an external keyhole, don't they?
I know they make deadbolts with a blank face outside, only lockable or unlockable from the inside, sometimes restricted to keys only.

When I built this place, I was doing larger (commercial and odiferous) crops, and doing fairly high-profile political activism, I had all of our strikers/plates embedded into the jams and reinforced, to make kicking in a door that much more difficult.

I still, to this day, can show you marks on the rubber door seals where (someone) tried to slip an object between the door and the striker to unlock the door(s) (Unsuccessfully).

When we installed the strikers, and went the extra distance of placing the strikers INTO the jams, with steel reinforcement and longer screws,, I made sure to allow the secondary pin on the latch tongue room to float or slide into the striker's latch hole with the main latch, as once that pin's in place, the lock can't be 'slipped' with a card, etc.

But as stated, in re. to the hyper-vigilance that went on in those days, sleeping on the sofa with a (specific rifle) more than half the nights after tucking my kids and wife into bed, so that if all hell broke loose, any bullets or other violence would mostly be restricted to the lower floor of the living area of the house.

During that time period, my very young kids and wife were 'trained' what to do if they heard loud noises and mayhem in the night; they were to descend from the upstairs, down a chain ladder on the upper deck (that had been gifted to me by Canadian friends) off the master bedroom, and go to the neighbors through a trail in the woods. I'd already made arrangements with the neighbors, telling my kids and wife that no matter what they heard, they were not to look back or return to the house.

That (NO DOUBT) fucked my kids' heads up. Even though the War On (Some) Drugs and those doing home-invasions, or worse, weren't my doing, I took part in the opposing side of it, and presented hypothetical circumstances to impressionable children. And the message they got on a regular basis at school, including from teachers, some of whom I KNEW smoked pot and/or did other drugs, was that weed was addictive, and so forth.

"Daddy's a drug addict and a criminal." On top of living in some amount of fear/hyper-vigilance.

Few other kids they attended class with got up in the morning for breakfast before school, and greeted Dad, still on the sofa with a (specific rifle) by his side.

To this day I apologze for setting those images of 'what ifs' loose in the minds of vulnerable, impressionable young kids; my kids. Whether I was right or not, it fucked my kids up to some degree. Kids rarely are capable of metering that kind of imagery. Very rarely, in fact.. Residual PTSD in the making.

Likewise, when we prepare and maintain plans and reinforce hyper-vigilance for catastrophic outcomes, 'x', 'y' or 'z', be they mass shootings in stores, on the street, highways, classrooms, raids, what ever, we stand to frighten the hell out of impressionable people near us who often aren't equipped in many cases to process that for tuning points of frequency or probability, and don't live in, or initially come from, the PTSD world that some of us have accepted as 'normal' without question for years, to the point we lose bearings re. even identifying it as over-the-top..

That level of hyper-vigilance, no matter the source of the boogieman, causes a sense of disharmony and fear with those near us who we supposedly love.

To this day I apologize to my now-adult children for robbing them of that bit of innocense, normalcy, sanity and peace.
 
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iTarzan

Well-known member
Veteran
The shooting skills of the average American male are legendary hammerhead. It isn't a fantasy it is real and is well documented and written about. World War II many American soldiers grew up shooting BB guns everyday just for fun. When they enlisted they were already proficient marksman. There were also many 22 users and hunters in general. It is easy to research.

Heck back in the revolutionary war there was a town up in New England area (I forget name of town) they have a monument, the men were all out at war and only boys around 12 or younger were there. They grew up shooting everyday. They easily defeated the British and I don't think many or any were killed.

It would be even worse today if another country attacked our shores. They all have gun bans. They hardly ever shoot. They will get destroyed just like the American Indians easily fended off the Vikings who had far lesser bow and arrow skills.

In a Civil war each side will have some part of the real army on their side. The army will not be all on one side.

Want more modern example of average people defeating an actual army? The Ukraine were fending off and beating the Russian army even before they started getting weapons.

One more reason why it is possible for people to take back their country is enragement. Enragement gives you super power and drive to win no matter what.
Right has more weapons, better marksman, more money, more supplies (show me a woke prepper), better and more vehicles and more experience than the left. The left (government, citizens) IMHO will be soundly defeated if they don't come around to getting along and being Americans together again. Work your ass off to change the world the way you want but don't hate the other side for doing the same. Stop the hypocrisy. That is dividing us. People tend to hate hypocrisy.

Stop fighting. Stop insulting. Just discuss. Nevermore....
 

subrob

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The shooting skills of the average American male are legendary hammerhead. It isn't a fantasy it is real and is well documented and written about. World War II many American soldiers grew up shooting BB guns everyday just for fun. When they enlisted they were already proficient marksman. There were also many 22 users and hunters in general. It is easy to research.

Heck back in the revolutionary war there was a town up in New England area (I forget name of town) they have a monument, the men were all out at war and only boys around 12 or younger were there. They grew up shooting everyday. They easily defeated the British and I don't think many or any were killed.

It would be even worse today if another country attacked our shores. They all have gun bans. They hardly ever shoot. They will get destroyed just like the American Indians easily fended off the Vikings who had far lesser bow and arrow skills.

In a Civil war each side will have some part of the real army on their side. The army will not be all on one side.

Want more modern example of average people defeating an actual army? The Ukraine were fending off and beating the Russian army even before they started getting weapons.

One more reason why it is possible for people to take back their country is enragement. Enragement gives you super power and drive to win no matter what.
Right has more weapons, better marksman, more money, more supplies (show me a woke prepper), better and more vehicles and more experience than the left. The left (government, citizens) IMHO will be soundly defeated if they don't come around to getting along and being Americans together again. Work your ass off to change the world the way you want but don't hate the other side for doing the same. Stop the hypocrisy. That is dividing us. People tend to hate hypocrisy.

Stop fighting. Stop insulting. Just discuss. Nevermore....
Oh. My. White. Jesus. Fukn. Christ.
Deeeeep breath....breathe iiiinnnnnnnn......and ooouuuuttttttt....

I'm trying folks! I SWEARTAGAWD I'm trying....where's my bong?
 
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