How could this possibly be overwatered...

[KnightRueben]

I thought you were cussing him out AHAHHAHA.

Lol, yeah it does look like that.

Well it's been just under 24h since the transplants and they honestly do look a bit better. The yellowing and necrosis halted (for now). Of course those leaves already affected look pretty bad, but the rest of the plant is no longer drooping at all and seems to be growing again - slightly. I'll prob post a pic or two later on.

 

[shallrelicme]

I tried this mix from my local nursery (Calloway's) recently. It is the Calloway's brand and in composition is very similar to FFOF accept is very low in nutrients. I was going to use perlite but I couldn't find any for sale this time of year and the people at the nursery told me I shouldn't need to add anything to it and it should drain well. So I used it as it was and the plants love it from seed to the start of flower I've had no problems. I am now firmly in the no perlite with FFOF camp.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Watering may be easy, but truly accurate watering is very difficult even with good draining mix and proper sized pots. So often, we overcompensate the one with the other. Overwater, kill roots then underwater. Underwater, kill roots then overwater. The overcompensation syndrome shows us that watering is not as easy as it looks. It is one of the highest skills in all of horticulture and thoughtful growers continue to make improvements throughout their lives.

 

[KnightRueben]

Hey all,

here's an update: they're still not really doing any better. They are however growing still. The transplant seemed to help for a day or two, and then it was back to droop status. This is plant 1, the one in the original photos.



I've been pretty vigilant about watering, using the weight method. Watering schedule had been as follows since the transplant:

watered plant 1 @ 11:35 PM, Tuesday Sept 15

watered plant 1 @ 6:00 AM, Saturday Sept 19 (3 days and 6 hours later)

watered plant 1 @ 3:00 PM, Tuesday Sept 22 - used 1/4 str nutes (1/4 tablespoon/gallon of 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion)
(3 days and 9 hours later, was rather humid the past few days)

So I'm kind of boggled with this one. She's been drooping for so long I'm kind of feeling like she's grown that way. New growth at the nodes seems to be really struggling for want of light.

 

[dillhole]

Hey, Knight. I hate that you're still having problems. At least they are growing some. I've looked over this thread again and it seems like you've tried everything. Maybe the root problem just needs time to correct itself. Rhizotonic may be able to help with that.

Looking at the pics, I'm more worried about their color than the drooping. They look like they want some nitrogen. They look old enough to give them a little bit.

One other thing, and I'm grasping at straws here, you may see some benefit from adding some blue spectrum to your lighting. Maybe a 26 watt daylight CFL. I've grown strains that don't do well vegging under HPS alone. They never developed the healthy green color that the plants grown under mixed spectrum did. Might be worth a shot.

Keep us posted.

DH

 

[nnnnghhhhgnnngh]

Are you quite certain you are watering ENOUGH? How much water each time?
This is not expert advice since I have one grow under my belt but in that grow, waiting tree days to water resulted in plants that looked like wilted death, but they recovered very quickly. Within an hour after watering. How do yours react right after given water?

With setup that looks similar I watered every other day, about 2 to 2.5 cup eyeballed each time. 1-gallon pots containing 70/30 FFOF/perlite. Regardless of humidity which climbed this summer to quite uncomfortable levels. This could work better by minimizing time soil spends dry between waterings. Sufficient aridity to stimulate root growth, insufficient to damage them.

 

[KnightRueben]

Hey, Knight. I hate that you're still having problems. At least they are growing some. I've looked over this thread again and it seems like you've tried everything. Maybe the root problem just needs time to correct itself. Rhizotonic may be able to help with that.

Thanks for coming back to the thread DH. +Rep for you throwing all these helpful suggestions my way. Mucho appreciated. Yeah I definitely want to try out some root stimulating product. I'm gonna use ye old search function to do some research on Rhizotonic and Superthrive after making this post.

Looking at the pics, I'm more worried about their color than the drooping. They look like they want some nitrogen. They look old enough to give them a little bit.

Totally agree. At my last watering, yesterday, I gave them a 1/4 strength dose of nutes, which amounted to 1/4 tablespoon of 5-1-1 Alaskan Fish Emulsion. Hopefully that helps with the yellowing some, but it's probably too soon to tell if that helped.

One other thing, and I'm grasping at straws here, you may see some benefit from adding some blue spectrum to your lighting. Maybe a 26 watt daylight CFL. I've grown strains that don't do well vegging under HPS alone. They never developed the healthy green color that the plants grown under mixed spectrum did. Might be worth a shot.

Once again, I totally agree with you. I've been planning on adding 30 watts of t8 lighting to my cab for some time now, but my ventilation isn't good enough to support them just yet. I'm redoing the cab to include a new WhisperCeiling Fan I picked up, and I'm gonna make sure it can support 30 watts of t8 since this is my combination veg/flo cab (for now).

 

[KnightRueben]

Are you quite certain you are watering ENOUGH? How much water each time?
This is not expert advice since I have one grow under my belt but in that grow, waiting tree days to water resulted in plants that looked like wilted death, but they recovered very quickly. Within an hour after watering. How do yours react right after given water?

This question has been tormenting me since these symptoms appeared! Truthfully I don't know. I have been kind of obsessively monitoring the watering of these plants. I honestly have a container of the same size as this one is in that is completely dry that I use for reference. I do not water these girls until they feel almost as light as the reference container.

Sadly, when I DO water them, they droop even more for about 4-5 hours then "perk back up" to the state they're in in those pictures.

 

[darookie2000]

When you water, how are you doing it? Are you just adding a fixed amount?

I water until water starts coming out the drainage holes pretty freely and that seems to work well. That plant looks like it's wilting a bit as opposed to drooping from overwatering. Do not fertilize a moisture stressed plant, it can burn it badly. Does it get any better after you water? That plant looks a little big to only take watering once every 3.5-4 days. I know that the rootball is struggling a bit, but even still. Don't wait for it to dry out completely, put a fingertip in to about the first knuckle and if it feels dry, it's time to water. Then pick up the container to check the weight, so you'll get a better idea what it feels like. The idea is not to wait for the roots to dry out completely, you really only want to wait long enough to get oxygen to the roots.

Don't feed them much nitrogen until after they've bounced back, it stunts root growth. If anything, you might think about a little bloom ferts to hold them over, but I would hold off, since you're in fresh soil.

A little bit of superthrive would be helpful, or try some liquid seaweed. Basically you want to give a nice little boost without too much fertilizer. If you can get rhizotonic or roots excelurator, try them. They are bacteria that colonize the roots and help stimulate their growth and the growth of hairs. They are expensive, but they work. If you don't want to spend the money on those (totally understandable), get some soluble mycorrhizae like Great White, or Oregonism XL, or Plant Success, and put a bit of that in water over the rootball.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Ok, since changing the soil helped for a bit and then stopped, I'd say there's something wrong with your water.

Just for S&G, drop by a water store or a Glacier RO vending machine and pick up a couple gallons of RO water. Use that to water them with for the next several weeks.... I'd even suggest re-transplanting them again, only this time wash off as much dirt as possible. (Edit: You can use tapwater for this but be sure to do a final rinse with RO water)

If you're having the problem I thing you are, you might want to add iodine and H203 to your tap water if you're going to use it. There's something growing in your soil that's messing with them growing roots and that won't go away until you find out what it is or find some way to fix it. I don't have any experience with any additives other than iodine and h203 but it works for killing and preventing crud from growing in your water before you use it and won't hurt your plants. (Get food grade 35% h203 for maximum health reasons)

Hope you get it licked, I know how frustrating it can be to have things go wrong...... several times in a row.

 

[darookie2000]

Ok, since changing the soil helped for a bit and then stopped, I'd say there's something wrong with your water.

Just for S&G, drop by a water store or a Glacier RO vending machine and pick up a couple gallons of RO water. Use that to water them with for the next several weeks.... I'd even suggest re-transplanting them again, only this time wash off as much dirt as possible. (Edit: You can use tapwater for this but be sure to do a final rinse with RO water)

If you're having the problem I thing you are, you might want to add iodine and H203 to your tap water if you're going to use it. There's something growing in your soil that's messing with them growing roots and that won't go away until you find out what it is or find some way to fix it. I don't have any experience with any additives other than iodine and h203 but it works for killing and preventing crud from growing in your water before you use it and won't hurt your plants. (Get food grade 35% h203 for maximum health reasons)

Hope you get it licked, I know how frustrating it can be to have things go wrong...... several times in a row.

5 ml per gallon of 35% hydrogen peroxide if you decide to use it.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

watered plant 1 @ 6:00 AM, Saturday Sept 19 (3 days and 6 hours later)

buh? Didn't you check the minutes too? lol I
Information is good but time between watering - not so much - as it gets more frequent - that says it's time to repot, but the only fact that's important is - "Is the plant thirsty" anywaay,,

ruben ol boy,,, - it's not a matter of time between waterings - it's if the roots are starting to get thirsty or not. 12 hours or 12 days. well dunno bout the 12 days....


Watering can look like many different problems - and other things can make matters worse - like temps and to a lesser degree , humidity.

The cure is lift the pot - if it ain't light - DON'T WATER
may be time to repot or check the root health. - wait till your SURE she's thirsty and pop the roots out for a look see. Are they dry everywhere? - Is the root mass solid and consistant? Is it white and healthy or brown n dead? I suspect the roots are stressed and not fully filled in.

At least if the plant is going to die,,, learn from the grow.


Also - if you've stressed her quite a bit - maybe the roots aren't real healthy and have suffered a die-back - then a root enzime like hygro-grow will help the root zone recover.


and waz up with the 1/4 tablespoon? - first - measure how ua like, but,, 3 tablespoons equal 1 tablespoon - and my handy measure thingys have 1/4 and 1/2 teaspoon - Is that what you ment 1/4 teaspoon? -


Did the problem begin after a transplant? Did you put a lot of soil under the old root ball? - Thinking it's real possible to have a dry top and wet bottom - -

Hope you get it licked, I know how frustrating it can be to have things go wrong...... several times in a row.

A-Men brudder!

 

[darookie2000]

.

3 days and 9 hours later.[/quote] buh?

ruben ol boy,,, - it's not a matter of time between waterings - it's if the roots are starting to get thirsty or not. 12 hours or 12 days. well dunno bout the 12 days....


Watering can look like many different problems - and other things can make matters worse - like temps and to a lesser degree , humidity.

The cure is lift the pot - if it ain't light - DON'T WATER
may be time to repot - wait till your SURE she's thirsty and pop the roots out for a look see. Are the dry eferywhere?[/quote]
They just got repotted because of the same issue.

 

[KnightRueben]

DaRookie, Hydro-Soil, and RockyMountain HI -

After reading your suggestions I just picked up some 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. Found some in the cosmetics section (what the hell?) at WalMart. I've added it to some tap water @ 5mL per gallon and it's sitting now. I do let my tap water sit for 24 hours before I pH it or use it on the plants. Hopefully that's not giving time for some nasties to grow in there. She's still a bit moist for watering, when checking weight and down to the knuckle, but I reckon I'll water her with it later today at lights on.

If that fails, I'll try some RO water next. I'm also looking at getting my hands on some root stimulants. The Excelurator is indeed very expensive. Will hydrogen peroxide and the Mycorrhizal Fungi stimulants interact well together?

Finally, I'm definitely gonna transplant it again very soon. I'm just trying to NAIL the cause of this problem so I don't have an endless cycle...

Thanks all, passing out rep for your good help.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi KR,
35% Peroxide can be used to bleach hair...hence the phrase "peroxide blonde" which is probably why you found it in cosmetics.

Peroxide kills many organisms which is why it's used for root rot. So no, your H2O2 and mycorrhizals won't mix well. After using the peroxide, you should re-innoculate with mycorrhizals.
ET

 

[KnightRueben]

Ok cool, thanks EvilTwin. I haven't purchased any root stimulants yet but that's good to know now before I do.

 

[darookie2000]

DaRookie, Hydro-Soil, and RockyMountain HI -

After reading your suggestions I just picked up some 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. Found some in the cosmetics section (what the hell?) at WalMart. I've added it to some tap water @ 5mL per gallon and it's sitting now. I do let my tap water sit for 24 hours before I pH it or use it on the plants. Hopefully that's not giving time for some nasties to grow in there. She's still a bit moist for watering, when checking weight and down to the knuckle, but I reckon I'll water her with it later today at lights on.

If that fails, I'll try some RO water next. I'm also looking at getting my hands on some root stimulants. The Excelurator is indeed very expensive. Will hydrogen peroxide and the Mycorrhizal Fungi stimulants interact well together?

Finally, I'm definitely gonna transplant it again very soon. I'm just trying to NAIL the cause of this problem so I don't have an endless cycle...

Thanks all, passing out rep for your good help.

If you let water with hydrogen peroxide sit out, it will turn back into water. It's pretty unstable, so only mix it right before you use it (and make sure you keep the bottle closed). Be VERY careful with it, wear eye protection and sleeves/gloves/shoes. It can blind you and/or burn you if it splashes. I'm quite frankly shocked that wal-mart sells it in the cosmetic aisle because it's pretty dangerous.

If it hasn't all bubbled off into water yet, you might try applying some now. I know it's a bit too early to water, but hydrogen peroxide oxygenates the roots, so it won't be a total disaster if you overwater them this one time. Go ahead and mix a little up and give it a try (just make sure it's actually hydrogen peroxide and not just peroxide - I seem to remember reading somewhere that the stuff typically used on hair is different, but reading around, I may have been mistaken - or they may have).

As you already know, anything living in the soil when you apply hydrogen peroxide will die, so don't use it with roots excelurator or myco, or anything else that has beneficials because you will just be pouring expensive water on them.

 

[KnightRueben]

So I just watered her with the hydrogen peroxide @ 5mL per gallon. It's food grade hydrogen peroxide 35%. I mixed it a few hours before I applied it, but in a closed capped bottle. I'll update with pics in the next few days.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

DaRookie, Hydro-Soil, and RockyMountain HI -

After reading your suggestions I just picked up some 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide.

You didn't get any Iodine?? Just a couple drops per gallon and it's less than $3 for a small bottle. Really helps a lot and your plants will use the Iodine as well.

Here's to things turning around for ya soon!

 

[KnightRueben]

Hey Hydro,

I took a look for it but didn't find any at WalMart. I can pick some up at the pharmacy later I'm sure for the next watering. I'll try anything!