How could this possibly be overwatered...

[KnightRueben]

Hello all,

this is my second grow. As you will see I am experiencing some serious drooping on my 13 day old seedling. The strain is Mazar x Skunk.

My first grow, I had problems with overwatering. This time around, I have taken extreme care not to repeat those mistakes. This plant you are about to see has been watered once every 5-7 days, literally. It was just watered a few hours ago, so it will appear damp, because the cup was so dry it was comparable in weight to an empty solo cup.

RH has been between 50%-65% in the past week. The plant has appeared completely healthy, vigorous, etc. until 2 days ago, when it began to limp. It has been given nothing but plain water @ 6.8 PH. Nothing has changed in its care since it's birth. It is in FFOF cut with 40% perlite.

Can this thing really be overwatered if I have only watered it once every 5-7 days depending on cup weight? That seems to extreme to me. It sure does look overwatered, though; and yellowing is starting to occur on fan leaves.

 

[KnightRueben]

Addendum

Addendum

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
2 days

What STRAIN are you growing?
Mazar x Skunk

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
Seed

What is the age of your plants?
13 days

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
13 days

How Tall are the plants?
~5''

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Seedling/Veg

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
None

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
Solo Cups

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
60% Fox Farms Ocean Forest
40% Perlite

What Nutrient's are you using?
None

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
None yet

How often are you feeding?
Haven't fed yet

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
N/A

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
N/A

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
6.7

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
Strips

How often are you watering?
once every 5-7 days, depending on weight

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
I have never fed

What size bulb are you using?
150w HPS

What is the distance to the canopy?
9''

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
50% - 65%

What is the canopy temperature?
76-81 deg F

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
Day: lights are off, so temps sit at ~71-75
Night: with lights on, canopy temps sit at 76-81 deg F depending on ambient

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
130 CFM TD-100x

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Passive intake, sealed cab, good flow

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
No

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
certainly not

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Soft

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Tap water that sits out for 24+ hours, and then is PH'd before administered

Are you using water from a water softener?
no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
no

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
no

Are plant's infected with pest's?
no

 

[loko17]

I see u made some holes in the side of the cup. Have you made holes on the bottom of the cup?

 

[Aeroguerilla]

was just going to ask that

 

[JeffSpicoli]

im no expert, but if i had to guess i would say youre soil is too hot. FFOF is notorious for burning seedlings... I had it happen before, looked just like yours does

 

[KnightRueben]

I see u made some holes in the side of the cup. Have you made holes on the bottom of the cup?

Yes, there are 5 holes in the bottom of the cup. The side holes were just some additional protection against overwatering that I planned on covering up soon (just incase the roots wanted to poke out.)

Thanks for the fast responses guys

 

[KnightRueben]

im no expert, but if i had to guess i would say youre soil is too hot. FFOF is notorious for burning seedlings... I had it happen before, looked just like yours does

I have heard this too. What's curious though, is this thing has been going very strong for 13 days now. There was no yellowing whatsoever, just strong ass, vigorous, tight growth. This drooping just occured. So if the soil is indeed too hot, wouldn't that have manifested earlier? I really don't know. Thanks,

-KR

 

[dillhole]

What size drainholes do you have on your cups? If the holes aren't large enough the soil at the bottom will remain very wet. You could see symptoms of overwatering even though the soil at top seems dry. If they are getting too dry you can see some drooping also. If this is the case they should perk up when you water again.

I'm currently growing a mazar x afghan. From my experience it is very sensitive to pH and nutrients, at least as a seedling. Some of your pics look a little like a low pH lockout. Even this early into your grow, make sure your soil pH is correct, it can change quickly.

DH

 

[loko17]

What size drainholes do you have on your cups? If the holes aren't large enough the soil at the bottom will remain very wet. You could see symptoms of overwatering even though the soil at top seems dry. If they are getting too dry you can see some drooping also. If this is the case they should perk up when you water again.

I'm currently growing a mazar x afghan. From my experience it is very sensitive to pH and nutrients, at least as a seedling. Some of your pics look a little like a low pH lockout. Even this early into your grow, make sure your soil pH is correct, it can change quickly.

DH

If the size of the holes on the bottom is similar to the ones on the side make them bigger!

 

[KnightRueben]

What size drainholes do you have on your cups? If the holes aren't large enough the soil at the bottom will remain very wet. You could see symptoms of overwatering even though the soil at top seems dry. If they are getting too dry you can see some drooping also. If this is the case they should perk up when you water again.

Hey dillhole, this is what the holes @ the bottom look like:



I did water them 6 hours ago, and they drooped worse, so I don't think it's underwatering. I wish!

I'm currently growing a mazar x afghan. From my experience it is very sensitive to pH and nutrients, at least as a seedling. Some of your pics look a little like a low pH lockout. Even this early into your grow, make sure your soil pH is correct, it can change quickly.

DH

pH is locked down pretty well. For one, I let this mix sit with some crushed lime @ 1tbsp/gallon for 3 weeks before I planted these gals in it. For two, I pH all water that goes in to 6.8. Runoff PH last watering was 6.7

 

[KnightRueben]

And guys, I hope I'm not coming across as a smart alec here with my responses. I do appreciate all the fast feedback - very chill. I took a few months off after my first grow to research and plan, so I'm pretty sure I'm not missing something small here like PH or drainage holes. If this gal really is overwatered, I'm honestly dumb-fucking-founded.

Her watering schedule for the past week looks like this:

Watered plant 1 @ 2:00 AM, Monday Sept 7 - medium watering, no runoff due to small size

Watered plant 1 @ 9:30 AM, Sunday Sept 13 (showing some slight drooping) thorough watering, some runoff - 6.7

That's more than 6 days! Ugh.

 

[dillhole]

Those drains are ok, I use larger holes and I place them more toward the edge of the cup. That way the cups will drain even when set on a flat surface.

Good job with the lime, I've learned to do that too. I don't know man. If the pH is fine and it's not water issues I guess it could be a nute problem. But it don't look like nute burn and the plants are too young to require ferts.

If it was me, I would poke a few more drain holes and give 'em a flush. Maybe with a little hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate the soil and kill off any nasties that may be growing on the roots.

I'll be watching this thread. When my plants look like that it has always been a pH or water problem. I'm interested to see what else causes these symptoms.

DH

 

[dillhole]

One more thing... Was this the freebie seeds given out by a popular seed site? That's what I'm growing now. Mine had some weird twisting leaves while it was young. Maybe it's a pheno thing.

I've just placed mine into flowering and it looks good. Almost identical to the white widow x skunk I'm also growing. Here's a pic (not to threadjack but to let you see what you're in for). The mazar afghan is on the right.

DH

edit. Doh, I just re-read your post. Yours is mazar x skunk not afghan. My bad.

 

[KnightRueben]

Those look absolutely beautiful DH. Very nicely done!

No, as you suspect these are not freebie seeds. They are Mazar X Skunk. Development prior to this drooping was absolutely stunning! This thing was growing like a fiend, with almost no stretch at all - pretty great considering she's under a 150w HPS! Temps are in check, so that helped with that I guess.

Ah well, . Unless someone has some more advice, I'm probably just gonna aerate the living shit out of those cups and let it sit for more than 6 days without water this time. That seems awfully extreme, but I have no idea what else to do.

 

[baet]

i was gona say underwatering but you said after you watered they drooped more, 5-7 days without water with 40 perlite i would think would make those plants very thirsty. shit man. if they stay waterlogged theyll begin to yellow leaves, but 40% perlite and FFOF after 5-7 days would be very hard to waterlog with those holes even. but i have not much of a clue. if they arent reacting good with any treatment then transplant into a bigger container with potting soil not as hot as FFOF and perlite, and i bet theyd react very well, F those red cups. that sucks tho, you seem to be doing things right, and knowledgable, damn stubborn plants!
the photos look underwatered... transplant, water, maybe get sum superthrive,i would.

 

[KnightRueben]

Thanks for the tips, Baet. I think I am gonna transplant it after I give it (many) days to dry out again.

Here's a thought I'd like to pose to people: could high RH cause this? It's been raining for the past few days. My Hygrometer hasn't read over 65% in the grow room, but perhaps it's broken. Let's say the humidity was at 70% all week - could that cause this droopiness?

Just another thought.

 

[darookie2000]

Maybe they are getting rootbound (or the perlite is stratifying and the roots can only get to a certain depth before they hit the perlite air and start to prune), transplant might not be a bad idea. I'd go a little lighter on the perlite (maybe 30%) and add some dolomite lime (my FFOF got really acidic after I started feeding).

 

[KnightRueben]

(or the perlite is stratifying and the roots can only get to a certain depth before they hit the perlite air and start to prune)

this is really interesting to me, could you elaborate on how this works?

 

[lordbudly]

he means theres so much perlite maybe the roots only get so far before they dry up from the extra air, its how those smart pots work, because once it prunes it branches out

 

[ibjamming]

Could you have let them dry out too much killing roots?

You said soft water...a water softener? The salt will hurt them...