HOPS pollinating Cannabis???

[earthwyrms]

i read and was told that in hops, diploid 2n +20 chromosomes, there are infertile triploids from crossing tetraploids with diploids. a tetraploid is (most likely) created from a cholchine treatment of a diploid cross. if the resultant tetraploid is mixed back with the cannabis, it is probably sterile and clone only and a real shitty way to make an industry.

just a recap. hops and cannabis are diploid with a chromosome number of 2n=20 (a haploid chromosome number of 10). a cross with colchine, (which is in the bulbs of the autumn crocus, which are called corms (which can be split and reprogated from, and also used for their cholchine)), which is a spindle poison and creates extra copies of chromosome during cell division;
creates a tetraploid, 4n=40, this when bred back to a diploid creates a triploid, which is sterile; but!, in the creation of early wheat is looks like, the triploid was doubled again with a triploid (with cholchine maybe) and produced a hexaploid.


in the case of wheat it was three species though and their diploids AA BB and C make up the hexaploid AABBCC,

maybe you could get corn 2n=20 in there haha (probably not beause corn isn't in the same genetic relations, with cannabis being in eudicots and maize in monocots)

theoretically two plants of tetraploid create viable offspring, so if a hops pollenated a cannabis and the other way around, (both with cholchine treatment of the pistils sometime around pollenation or something) and those two offspring seeds were grown out and did the same thing to eachother without cholchine, and mixed around and whatever, mothers to fathers o uncles second cousin whatever, you might have something funny that has a whole new range of chemicals in it that arent alpha aid or cannabinoids, but with alot of terpenes and some other compounds that are novel and maybe toxic. it might be pretty interesting.

 

[OldSSSCGuy]

A cat cannot impregnate a dog, and hops cannot impregnate cannabis.

 

[acespicoli]

::

 

[earthwyrms]

more like, a tiger and lion sometimes make a liger. the genes are not similar in dog and cat, the classification whatever are way off. if i wanted corn with cannabis or hops, i wouldn't be able to cross them, regularly, most likely. a gene gun would be a possiblity, but with the other case, a liger might form, or cholchine could coax stability or something. it wouldn't be cannabis though,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy_(biology)

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have trouble with this, we tried over and over during several years and no interspecies Hop/Cannabis seed ever set in our tests in the EU and China. Also no science papers that found success.
By any chance do you have pictures of the Hop/Cannabis seeds produced and newly sprouted seedlings?
If you had any Cannabis males around or intersex females around you can't be sure if the father was Hops or Cannabis.
Was the original hybrid with a male Hop plant to a female Cannabis plant?
By DNA testing it would be easy to confirm or show there is no Hop DNA present.
Contact me by PM I do not even need a seed, just a leaf will do to extract the DNA and analyze.
-SamS

KalySeeds - Mexsativa
Jap.hop X Mex.Sativa

The Jap.hop is a hybrid from 1998, between Purple Star and japanese Hop. He has long grown faint-vigorous and stunted, in 2008 it was back to normal in growth. This hybrid is the ancestor of all PAC strains.

This Pseudoacercannabis (PAC) line, a hybrid between Humulus Japonicus and Cannabis, is not available as seed - but was used for different crossings.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679237&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679239&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679240&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

 

[Guy Brush]

I dont know where you have your info from but this line (pseudoacercannabis) is not a cross between hops and cannabis but only a mutation of the leaves that look like maple(lat. acer) leaves from some inbreeding experiments with cannabis alone. It has nothing to do with hops or maple.

Could be the "breeder" of Kaly Seeds first tried to sell this as a cross between hops and cannabis but later changed his mind. Google Kaly Seeds and Pseudoacercannabis. This guy sells seed lines of his leaf mutations. LMAO

KalySeeds - Mexsativa
Jap.hop X Mex.Sativa

The Jap.hop is a hybrid from 1998, between Purple Star and japanese Hop. He has long grown faint-vigorous and stunted, in 2008 it was back to normal in growth. This hybrid is the ancestor of all PAC strains.

This Pseudoacercannabis (PAC) line, a hybrid between Humulus Japonicus and Cannabis, is not available as seed - but was used for different crossings.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679237&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679239&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70564&pictureid=1679240&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The guy had cannabis males in the house, 2 rooms away. Obviously they're not aware of how insidious cannabis pollen can be. lol

This thread was good for a quick laugh.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Not surprised........
Thanks for the info.
-SamS

I dont know where you have your info from but this line (pseudoacercannabis) is not a cross between hops and cannabis but only a mutation of the leaves that look like maple(lat. acer) leaves from some inbreeding experiments with cannabis alone. It has nothing to do with hops or maple.

Could be the "breeder" of Kaly Seeds first tried to sell this as a cross between hops and cannabis but later changed his mind. Google Kaly Seeds and Pseudoacercannabis. This guy sells seed lines of his leaf mutations. LMAO

 

[WelderDan]

I think the closest anyone will get to crossing the two is a Graft-Chimaera. Graft-Chimaeras can occur at the point of contact between the root stock and scion, and have properties intermediate of both parents. The only way to propagate a Graft-Chimaera is by cloning, but they are not stable and usually revert to the one of the "parents."

So while you can graft hops and cannabis, and you "might" manage to get a Chimaera, it won't be stable, it won't be able to reproduce and the outcome would be interesting, but not worth the effort.

While an interesting idea, this idea of crossing the two is a dead end

 

[resin_lung]

I think the closest anyone will get to crossing the two is a Graft-Chimaera. Graft-Chimaeras can occur at the point of contact between the root stock and scion, and have properties intermediate of both parents. The only way to propagate a Graft-Chimaera is by cloning, but they are not stable and usually revert to the one of the "parents."

So while you can graft hops and cannabis, and you "might" manage to get a Chimaera, it won't be stable, it won't be able to reproduce and the outcome would be interesting, but not worth the effort.

While an interesting idea, this idea of crossing the two is a dead end

Edit: wrong thread

 

[RubeGoldberg]

sorry for ignoring all other posts in this thread. But I work in the hydroponic equipment supply industry here in Southern BC. and last summer, MANY grows that I interact with through work, including several of mine got seeded...

the one common denominator... Intake/outake rooms rather than closed air with co2..... Hops just recently returned to the Fraser Valley due to craft brewing since being common prior to the mid 90s...

im going to buy some hop pollen (if i can find it) if not im going to grab some off a farm.

the seeds were shitty 1/4 formed duds, but almost every air exchange op in the valley this summer was hit by it.

 

[Thule]

Hi, I gave up on this idea after Onlyornamental pointed out that humulus japonicus doesn't have a matching chromosome count with cannabis. Humulus japonicus is the closest match genetically but I now did some reading and it turns out that humulus lupulus is the one with a matching chromosome number so I thought I could give it a try once again.

The genomes might not be homologous (able to pair) but I acquired the means to double their chromosome counts to make a tetraploid which in theory could overcome that problem (hops chromomes pairing with hops, hemp with hemp). I'll start by trying to make a tetraploid hemp plant. I'll be working with hemp this time so I can use proper numbers and not feel paranoid doing that. Will be a while but I'll let you know what happens.

edit: I read the previous page and apparently someone had come up with the same exact idea, lol. I'll still be trying this because I need to perfect the chromosome doubling procedure for other reasons and hemp seeds are the easiest to work with.

 

[ahortator]

Hi Thule. Nice to read you! I wish you a happy New Year my friend!

Many fern species are in fact hibrids that usually are sterile but wiht a duplicated number of chromosomes (they are called allotetraploid or amphidiploid) so they can pair their chromosomes and they turn fertile again.

You can make the hybrid hemp x hops, or hops x hemp, and later treat the plants, or the seeds with colchicine in order to get a fertile hybrid which would be a new species and even a new genus.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

sorry for ignoring all other posts in this thread. But I work in the hydroponic equipment supply industry here in Southern BC. and last summer, MANY grows that I interact with through work, including several of mine got seeded...

the one common denominator... Intake/outake rooms rather than closed air with co2..... Hops just recently returned to the Fraser Valley due to craft brewing since being common prior to the mid 90s...

im going to buy some hop pollen (if i can find it) if not im going to grab some off a farm.

the seeds were shitty 1/4 formed duds, but almost every air exchange op in the valley this summer was hit by it.

How large is the valley, what are the wind currents like? It would only take one medium sized outdoor grow to pollinate for at least 5 miles. Hops coming to the valley is most likely just coincidental. Not saying it can't happen, just re-pointing to the fact the kid had another cannabis grow with males in the house. I wouldn't believe a word of it, since I'm very aware of how little people know about pollen. lol

Still, be interesting to see what repeated experiments would pull off. Not wasting any resources on it myself though.

 

[Thule]

Hola amigo ahortator! Happy new year to you as well!

Yes polyploidization is common practice and in many cases can overcome hybrid sterility in quite distantly related species (tens of millions of years separation). From what I've read crossing doesn't seem likely to succeed on the diploid level but I'm not sure if they tried on the tetraploid level. Tetraploid hops has been made and exists, tetraploid cannabis can also be made relatively easy at home, the instructions are widely available.

I'm not going to be too serious about pursuing this but I do hope to have tetraploid cannabis at some point. Working with hops is going to have to wait until later, from what I read 3x and 4x hops is too late maturing to even flower in my climate so there's that, but wouldn't it be cool to have THC producing plants with a perennial root system? Worth pursuing imo.

Hi Thule. Nice to read you! I wish you a happy New Year my friend!

Many fern species are in fact hibrids that usually are sterile but wiht a duplicated number of chromosomes (they are called allotetraploid or amphidiploid) so they can pair their chromosomes and they turn fertile again.

You can make the hybrid hemp x hops, or hops x hemp, and later treat the plants, or the seeds with colchicine in order to get a fertile hybrid which would be a new species and even a new genus.

 

[acespicoli]

This may be of some interest for this thread I was reading about ABC Australian Bastard Cannabis and found a thread about it already started on IC if your interested https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87798

one photo looks amazingly vine and hop like
also in my adventures this year I have seen some nice j. hops I will be posting some flowers once they go to (budding) looking for seeds etc

 

[therevverend]

Haven't thought about this idea in a while. Mostly because it's not possible at this point but I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulls it off in the future.
I've grown hops for many years. I'm not brewing so I've cut back on fertilizing, pruning, all the stuff you do to get a decent hop crop. Don't have a good trellis system just a bunch of string. It's a pretty plant I enjoy having it around. It's similarity to cannabis adds to the enjoyment.
I've noticed spinach when it starts flowering is similar as well. There are male and female flowers with hairs that look similar to the ones on cannabis.
Hops is produced by the female plants. It is usually propagated by cuttings. I've never seen a male hop plant and my hop vine has never thrown male flowers. She's started sending shoots out all over the yard. I could easily dig up the rhizomes and have 20 more hop vines if I wanted.
I try to give them to people but it's hard to give them away. Unless they're brewers. It's a wonderful aromatic hop maybe Hallertau but I may be completely wrong. I know it's not Fuggles because that's the one hermaphroditic hop, we'd always have seeds floating around in our wort when we'd brew with it.
Someday I need to graft one of my little hop plants onto a ganja plant that would be neat. I'd love to see hops buds hanging off next to ganja bud. I know everyone always thinks in terms of getting a cannabis plant that looks like hops. I wonder if it's easier to get a hop plant that looks like cannabis?