I don't think it flows through as such. I think it accumulates in the stem, providing buffer storage and is depleted at some points, and accumulated at others.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Hollow Stems?
- Thread starter Dakine
- Start date
I don't think it flows through as such. I think it accumulates in the stem, providing buffer storage and is depleted at some points, and accumulated at others.
I don't think you're just making shit up, I can't think of a reason why you would.
but I do find it very unlikely that the hollow stem would be filled with fluid. never seen it myself(have seen hollow stems, but not with fluid), and I see no reason why it would be there. it also doesn't fit with other plants with hollow stems, which are all filled with air(as far as I know).
and if all those hollow stems were filled with fluid, it would also make all those hollow branches pretty heavy.
so nothing against you, but such a claim just goes against everything I know, and we're on the internet, so I'll be skeptical unless I see a picture.
I really don't want to imply anything about you personally, it's just that in my time on the internet I've learned to never trust anyone on their word alone.
I'm thinking possibly you did see fluid coming out, but it was actually coming out of the solid part of the stem(from the xylem), and you thought it was coming from the hole?
but I do find it very unlikely that the hollow stem would be filled with fluid. never seen it myself(have seen hollow stems, but not with fluid), and I see no reason why it would be there. it also doesn't fit with other plants with hollow stems, which are all filled with air(as far as I know).
and if all those hollow stems were filled with fluid, it would also make all those hollow branches pretty heavy.
so nothing against you, but such a claim just goes against everything I know, and we're on the internet, so I'll be skeptical unless I see a picture.
I really don't want to imply anything about you personally, it's just that in my time on the internet I've learned to never trust anyone on their word alone.
I'm thinking possibly you did see fluid coming out, but it was actually coming out of the solid part of the stem(from the xylem), and you thought it was coming from the hole?
With a hole in the stem of 1/4” diameter, how could such watery fluid cap the end withought falling down the stem if it’s hollow? Maybe I am seeing a cap that covers the end and the rest is hollow. Maybe the void serves a different purpose.
Anyway, all I’m certain of is that hollow stems are a genetic trait is expressed more in some plants than others. As I say, I grew the same cut every way for years and it never ever did a hollow stem. Others always do them whatever you do.
Anyway, all I’m certain of is that hollow stems are a genetic trait is expressed more in some plants than others. As I say, I grew the same cut every way for years and it never ever did a hollow stem. Others always do them whatever you do.
I am now seeing why this thread has lasted so long....... The caliber of posters is minimal.....
Everybody seriously taking advice from a tent grower, over jidoka? Over me? Check out my IG account, @HazyBulldogFarms. Then pull up Spaventa's tent grows. Then ask Jidoka how many plants he is growing / consulting for? Ask who is doing this for a living, who is using labs for data to make these comments.
Clear as day. No matter what rookies like Spaventa say, it's about Ca and B. Period.
Carry on though, maybe one day you guys will figure it out. I think.
Everybody seriously taking advice from a tent grower, over jidoka? Over me? Check out my IG account, @HazyBulldogFarms. Then pull up Spaventa's tent grows. Then ask Jidoka how many plants he is growing / consulting for? Ask who is doing this for a living, who is using labs for data to make these comments.
Clear as day. No matter what rookies like Spaventa say, it's about Ca and B. Period.
Carry on though, maybe one day you guys will figure it out. I think.
Another hint here......... And yes, he believes the fluid was coming from the hole..... Hence why he thinks it's like a straw...... Clueless.
And this is why most discussions go nowhere. This isn't politics, why make it personal?
Natural high
Member
So what makes your opinion so special? Are you a biologist?
Just because you say something is so doesn't make it fact. Maybe you should re-read the thread for a more thorough understanding of the subject instead of just assuming you know it all.
So what makes your opinion so special? Are you a biologist?
Just because you say something is so doesn't make it fact. Maybe you should re-read the thread for a more thorough understanding of the subject instead of just assuming you know it all.
So lab testing doesn't count for anything? Tissue testing? Sap testing? Hundreds of samples of thousands of plants? Working with world renown agronomist? Did you even care to look at my IG page?
Please, go ahead and post up something from the thread I am missing........ I am sure it will be a real zinger. So far it's been a lot of "hallow stems act like straws......" Basic plant physiology means nothing in this thread......
AgentPothead
Just this guy, ya know?
My biggest takeaway from this thread is a bunch of people who grow marijuana never took plant biology 101.
for real......
MrBungle
Well-known member
Wikipedia says sometimes the pith will dry out and disintegrate resulting in a hollow stem
1050
CANADIAN
JOURNAL
OF
PLANT
SCIENCE
A high level of N fertility is generally a requirement for high broccoli yields (Cut- cliffe et al. 1968). However, rapidly growing broccoli plants are more likely to have hollow stems than those with a slower growth rate (Hipp 1974 l. Consequently. as1, J rate increases so does the percentage of plants with hollow stem (Gorski and Armstrong 1985). Most studies concerning the effect of N rate on hollow stem, however, have been conducted with ammonium nitrate as N source
^^^^ This is kinda what I believe... The plants are growing faster than the pith can keep up with resulting in hollow stems
1050
CANADIAN
JOURNAL
OF
PLANT
SCIENCE
A high level of N fertility is generally a requirement for high broccoli yields (Cut- cliffe et al. 1968). However, rapidly growing broccoli plants are more likely to have hollow stems than those with a slower growth rate (Hipp 1974 l. Consequently. as1, J rate increases so does the percentage of plants with hollow stem (Gorski and Armstrong 1985). Most studies concerning the effect of N rate on hollow stem, however, have been conducted with ammonium nitrate as N source
^^^^ This is kinda what I believe... The plants are growing faster than the pith can keep up with resulting in hollow stems
FidelCashflow
Member
lol but I didn't quote you dude, how did you know I was talking about you?The irony
Seriously where do you get shit like that? was it something you heard your dad say once, and it worked for him? you vote Hillary? you suspect Russians could be behind hollow stems?
There's so much here to unpack, but I think it's easier to just let you keep digging your little hole. It's not even about being right or wrong at this point, you just come off as arrogant and insecure.
That's probably the biggest lesson to learn about cannabis growing in general.
Last edited:
That is exactly what Jidoka was trying to tell you guys. Too much N will result in a Ca deficiency...... That is why people use products like Albion Calcium...... watch the video
https://youtu.be/2omoNP1ijp4 start at the two minute mark if you want to skip a bit. The video is very informative for this thread, I suggest everybody watches the whole video. Listen to the delivery system of nutrients to the leaves.......
so this talk about calcium is interesting I think, but I'm not sure yet wether that's what's happening here, I think there's more to discuss about it as just 'it's calcium, case closed'.
googling it, everything I can find with 'cakcium hollow stem' is about brasiccas, mostly brocolli but also found some about caulliflower.
however, from reading that I'm wondering how well it applies to cannabis.
from what I read about hollow stem in brocolli, it reminds me of what I once learned about blossom end rot in tomato, which is also due to a calcium deffciency, but a local one, not for the whole plant.
the xylem carries the water with calcium upwards, but with strong growth/high transpiration, it mostly gets pulled into the leaves, and the calcium never reaches the fruits(in tomato). in brocolli something like that also makes sense to me, the stem with the flowerhead, where the cracking occurs, probably transpires less than the leaves. and the bigger leaves are lower on the plant, so the water transpired by those leaves also wouldn't pass trough the flowerstem.
but with weed that seems less logical. on one hand, weed does grow pretty fast. but with how a weedplant looks, I would think the issue of calcium never reaching the stem is less likely, so if the hollow stem is due to calcium deffciency, I would expect that it would always go together with (other) symptoms of calcium deffciency.
also, in descriptions of hollow stem in brocolli, I read it described as a starshaped hollow space, cracked appearance and possible browning.
but when I saw it in weed, it was a nice clean round hollow space, not cracked or browned. so it seems more like 'intentional' design by the plant, instead of cell walls randomly failing and tearing apart.
and it seems like there's a genetic factor(both mentioned in this thread, and some of the older papers on breeding fiber hemp mention selection for hollow stem since it would supposedly produce superior fibers).
I can't test it myself(only grow outside in small numbers, and haven't had a hollow stemmed plant in a while), but I'm curious what the people here who did test it have measured.
did you find plants that had hollow stems under the same conditions where others had solid stems?
and what did testing those plants result in? did they always get solid stems eventually if calcium was pushed high enough?
and if that's the case, what caused the difference? did they have lower calcium tissue levels at the same soil concentration(so less efficient in taking up calcium, or growing faster diluting the calcium over more biomass), or did they need higher tissue levels before the stem became solid?
(p.s. kind of forgot to mention boron, my thinking was focussed on calcium, since it reminded me of BER in tomato, but I'm similarly interested in what there is to say about relation between boron levels and genetic differences between plants)
googling it, everything I can find with 'cakcium hollow stem' is about brasiccas, mostly brocolli but also found some about caulliflower.
however, from reading that I'm wondering how well it applies to cannabis.
from what I read about hollow stem in brocolli, it reminds me of what I once learned about blossom end rot in tomato, which is also due to a calcium deffciency, but a local one, not for the whole plant.
the xylem carries the water with calcium upwards, but with strong growth/high transpiration, it mostly gets pulled into the leaves, and the calcium never reaches the fruits(in tomato). in brocolli something like that also makes sense to me, the stem with the flowerhead, where the cracking occurs, probably transpires less than the leaves. and the bigger leaves are lower on the plant, so the water transpired by those leaves also wouldn't pass trough the flowerstem.
but with weed that seems less logical. on one hand, weed does grow pretty fast. but with how a weedplant looks, I would think the issue of calcium never reaching the stem is less likely, so if the hollow stem is due to calcium deffciency, I would expect that it would always go together with (other) symptoms of calcium deffciency.
also, in descriptions of hollow stem in brocolli, I read it described as a starshaped hollow space, cracked appearance and possible browning.
but when I saw it in weed, it was a nice clean round hollow space, not cracked or browned. so it seems more like 'intentional' design by the plant, instead of cell walls randomly failing and tearing apart.
and it seems like there's a genetic factor(both mentioned in this thread, and some of the older papers on breeding fiber hemp mention selection for hollow stem since it would supposedly produce superior fibers).
I can't test it myself(only grow outside in small numbers, and haven't had a hollow stemmed plant in a while), but I'm curious what the people here who did test it have measured.
did you find plants that had hollow stems under the same conditions where others had solid stems?
and what did testing those plants result in? did they always get solid stems eventually if calcium was pushed high enough?
and if that's the case, what caused the difference? did they have lower calcium tissue levels at the same soil concentration(so less efficient in taking up calcium, or growing faster diluting the calcium over more biomass), or did they need higher tissue levels before the stem became solid?
(p.s. kind of forgot to mention boron, my thinking was focussed on calcium, since it reminded me of BER in tomato, but I'm similarly interested in what there is to say about relation between boron levels and genetic differences between plants)
It is overall balance, not just one or two elements. If n and k are too high (and they are in bottle nutes) the the slowest cations and anions (ca and p) will not be able to keep up. You will get stretchy, unhealthy growth and buds not growing to their potential
You see it in most journals
You see it in most journals
Y
Yard dog
I'm guessing the carbon uptake is due to environmental factors and mostly humidity (and Ca needs to be added to coco etc, hence in soil the hollow stems aren't as much), a faster growing plant will need more naturally.. those in hotter conditions ( air) will act more like a C4 plant and need more... (these may well be C4 plants)
I'd also say that different morphs of plants require different levels ie a broad leaf will be different to a narrow leaf...
https://academic.oup.com/aob/article-abstract/75/6/587/181058?redirectedFrom=fulltext
I'd also say that different morphs of plants require different levels ie a broad leaf will be different to a narrow leaf...
https://academic.oup.com/aob/article-abstract/75/6/587/181058?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Last edited:
Natural high
Member
Some hollow stems found on the net. All look completely normal and free from deficiency. As mentioned in the journal abstract linked by Yard dog above, pith autolysis accounts for hollow stems in some fast growing herbaceous species to make use of stored carbon, but I don't think that is a factor in this case.
SoulAnnoyed
Member
If anyone wants to gather some data for the argument, it would be interesting to know if hollow stem plants start out that way or if the pith dissolves at a steady rate, exponentially, etc.
Willing to bet they all start out pithy
Willing to bet they all start out pithy
Natural high
Member
From my experience, once the main stem reaches a certain diameter, a small symmetrical void appears, which gets bigger as the stem diameter increases to a point where the stem starts to become woody. From this point on the void is at maximum size and won't get bigger. I have seen a hollow stem a few inches below the apical meristem on a fast growing plant about a foot high and 3 weeks old. I'm fairly sure it was this one when I topped it.
