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Hollow Stems?
- Thread starter Dakine
- Start date
Stickybred420
Active member
I think the hollow stem folklore is largely due to DJ shorts breeding observations with his blueberry line. I feel that a lot of people take his words as undisputable fact. im not disputing his knowledge or contributions to the community. but I don't think theres a direct link to hollow stem and potency.
FidelCashflow
Member
I've always associated hollow stems with rapid vegetative growth, and the prioritizing of vascular activity over structural integrity, which could be due to all kinds of variables, negative and positive. On the one hand, a micronutrient deficiency during the early flowering stretch could lead to insufficient cell growth in the cambium, and the plant has to make do with the vascular structures it already has even though it's rapidly putting on new apical growth. Or it's possible that strains from regions with short growing seasons or nutrient-poor soils are able to grow so vigorously indoors that the circumference of the stem expends too quickly for there to be enough of the pithy, lignified fibers to fill and strengthen it. Or perhaps many of these variables interact. Patterns are hard to see, even at large scale, sometimes 20 clones of one pheno can show hollow stems during one run, but clones from the same mom two months later will have much thicker, stronger stems. I even think that the location on the mother plant that the clones were cut from can play a role.
Check your physics... theres a reason bicycle frames and birds bones are hollow - pound for pound, a tube is stiffer and stronger than a solid round bar and therefore more efficient. This means a bigger plant, with better nutrient mobility, from the same resources. You will also observe that hollow stems aren't just hollow - they are much larger diameter than solid stems so there is just as much tissue, only in a more efficient shape.
Yes, read the thread.
Different plants fed the same in the same environment don't all produce solid or hollow stems, its a variable with many contributors. Ultimately the potential to grow efficient hollow stems is genetic and to some degree present in all plants. The rest is environmental and variable.
This is the same as asking what causes some people to have bigger, "fast twitch" muscles with denser filaments - yes environmental factors contribute but we know these days that the biggest determiner is genetics.
If you could get any plant to do anything you like by giving it the right nutrients, we wouldn't prize particular clones for there unique genetic potential, or exceptional people or pedigree dogs for that matter
Your suggestion of "Ca and Boron" is like Yussain Bolt telling you its the burgers he eats. The burgers may play a part but we know its genetic potential, 99 percent.
What you say is true to an extend..... However you up your Ca levels to 82-85% base saturation levels with a ppm of about 7 of boron and I guarantee you wont have hallow stems........Dont care if it's DJ short strains, or tricky og strains. What those strains want is high Ca, and they are showing it with hallow stems.
Plant philology takes a huge role along with genetics.
Like I said, give it a shot.
I don't doubt your observation that you can influence the stems structure by adjusting nutrient ratios. Where we differ is in the conclusions we've reached.
If running a particular nutrient ratio results in solid stems, you see it as a success and objective achieved. I would see it as nutrient issue and solid stems as the undesirable symptom.
Its obvious hollow stems are functionally superior - the same amount of tissue in a tube is much stronger than a solid stem - fact
Its also obvious that fluid mobility is much better through a tube than a solid stem.
I guess some cannabis evolved in harsh, dry, nutrient imbalanced conditions and the potential for huge pipeline stems became redundant and recessive. Maybe the strains that do it most are ones that evolved in a better environment and the trait became widespread because the plants that had the potential to take advantage of good conditions and develop supercrop stems did the best and pollinated more fems of which the hollow girls were the biggest and made most seed. Is there a correlation between the trait and humidity? Hollow stems seem tumescent and tumescence favours high humidity? Possibly solid stems retain moisture better in dry conditions?
I will say this - I reckon its a yield thing, not a quality thing. It may speed up growth too.
Environment will effect uptake for sure. However it comes down to what is in the plant. I was quoting base saturation levels in your soil, however if you take leaf samples, you will find hallow stems disappear when the Ca and Boron levels are adequate. So yes, environment will effect uptake, but the ratio of nutrients in the plant is really what you are shooting for. So if it's cold, you will have a hard time with Ca uptake as P will be limited. Ext ext.
As for a solid stem being more functional..... How do nutrients travel inside the plant? Is it all about structure to you, or is the vascular system something you take into account? Go back to plant physiology, think about it.....
As for a solid stem being more functional..... How do nutrients travel inside the plant? Is it all about structure to you, or is the vascular system something you take into account? Go back to plant physiology, think about it.....
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Hollow stems are a good thing so I have no wish to find a ratio of nutrients that prevents them anymore than I would want to prevent the plant making THC.
Your theory that fluids wick through solid mass better than they flow through a pipe , or that a solid round bar is stronger than a tube both contradict basic physics.
When all nutrient levels are optimum and the genetics are good, you will see big, fat, hollow stems with huge buds on them.
So other plants that have hollow stems.. from Daffodils, Delphiniums and lupins to spring onions, they are ALL Ca and Boron deficient? always? every single stem? Bamboo? should that be solid? is all the bamboo in the world is Boron deficient?
Japanese knotwood always has hollow stems and is one of the fasted growing things on earth.
Cruciferous veg like broccoli get a different hollow stem from Ca def but that not growth - the core of the stem splits and the hole is diamond shaped not round. I think this is where the confusion comes.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
I just tossed a hollow stem blue cheese indica plant that i revegged from last season because it was a shitty tasting and low odor pheno. Organic soil grown and fed plenty of ca and silica throughout its life.
Grew fast as hell, was sturdy in 70+mph winds unstaked and uncaged at 7ft tall and 6 ft across, freezing temps and snowstorms until the end of october.
Edit:
Just seen this on the last page, agree 100%.
Grew fast as hell, was sturdy in 70+mph winds unstaked and uncaged at 7ft tall and 6 ft across, freezing temps and snowstorms until the end of october.
Edit:
Just seen this on the last page, agree 100%.
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Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Very well done, lol.
Clearly showing a Ca deficient plant, with hollow stems. Spider mite damage and tiny yields. Awesome.
What mechanism allows a plant to uptake nutrients? What is the vascular system of the plant? Describe how this action takes place........
Once you have those answers, reread your last post.......
As for plants like bamboo..... Yea, plant philology clearly dictates the hallow stems in Baboo. That however has nothing to do with cannabis.
hint, hint!
Do you think the nugs are sucking on the stems to create negative pressure and drawing fluids up? Is that really what you think is happening?
https://youtu.be/9-dicqNoODg
This video should help....... Trees, with solid stems, transporting water hundreds of feet in the air......
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Genetics influenced by environment.
Bicycle frames are engineered for light weight, as birds have "bioengineered" light bones for flight.
Hollow stems snap easier under strain, and do not recover as quickly as solid stems. I have seen the symptom progress to a near brittleness that is of no advantage to the plant.
Transpiration drives uptake of water containing nutrients.
In a plant with hollow stems, if you cut the stem you will soon see fluid overflowing from the end where you cut. Having this much nutrient solution so readily available throughout the plant is why it results in faster more vigorous growth and why we like em - its still has to go through some tissue mass but most of the journey from media to buds is in the fast lane through a big tunnel.
Sure the solution gets transported through tissues on parts beyond the stem, like the the stems on the buds themselves but the "res" if you will is only a few inches away at most before you get to torrents of gushing juice, a solid stem work, obviously, but its a bottleneck
