Hollow Stems?

[paradoxlost]

It's not so much calcium/boron, but silica/boron/calcium.

For the silica and calcium to do their thing, they need a boron primer. The 1 ppm in interesting, I feel like it would be wise to use higher than that, but I have definitely been impressed with some of the pictures from jidoka's grow, so I wouldn't write that off.

 

[jidoka]

Again that B is from a Morgan extraction cause I thought your question was about soluble B. M3 numbers would be 4 or up in a high organic potting soil. 3 works in real soil

Plus humidity plays a huge part in Ca uptake. Honestly tissue is needed to dial in Ca

 

[Ibechillin]

Hey jidoka, could you explain how the albion calcium works?

I just re read a description on calcium sulfate di-hydrate (CaSO4·2H2O), which, with two extra water molecules, is more water soluble than the anhydrite form (CaSO4) to the plant.

And it got me wondering about the albion calcium not using humic or fulvic acids for improving availability?

 

[redheadfreakin]

So I watched the video on Albion Calcium. Seems to me like someone just added a few drops of humic and fulvic acid with some soluble calcium powder...

Calcium + malic acid = DiCalcium Malate

 

[Ibechillin]

Thanks, i learned alot from looking that up.

 

[clearheaded]

if you search I started a thread talking about this and how HEMP have hollow pithless stems and drug var tend not too. so dj likely had it wrong or perhaps was a hybrid vigor increase if choosing hemp to cross with drug var?? or thai var (half of all his hybrids afgani X thai)are more closely related to hemp and share that trait?? anyway, search hollow stems dj short and it will pop up. in any case no one knows why he said that and likely had it "wrong" depending on what your breeding goals are. ie

when less pith it does not mean it can more easily transfer nutrients and does not mean more capilaries. while pith may add some physical strength hold moisture hold stem together, thicker actual stem is what really makes them stronger and able to bend ie hemp is pretty strong stemmed .

 

[clearheaded]

also while yes deficiencies can play a part in phenotype expression unless fairly severe hollow stem is more genetics. as again hollow stem is in the literature for hemp and seperates it from drug var in there observations and NOT because of how they are grown. So no need to talk about that anymore. as yes low light can cause 3 bladed leaves its a severe indication (would have 5 plus under "normal" conditions) and not "normal relatively healthy" you would have other indications of Ca deficiency if Ca played a roll in amount of pith so in no way is it from "deficient" for 99% of the cases.

Also DJ short selected for hollow stem males, so in general we can assume he took reasonable care and would of picked up on hollow stems in deficient plants. and likely if was deficient they would of grown worse and would of not been something he was selecting for... mythbusted....

read up on stem and look at a cross section of a stem. I think there is some confusion, while yes thicker amounts of vascular bundles located around the outer edge of the stem xylem phloem vascular bundles will make it stronger help transport greatly. a stem could have very little of those good parts and mostly pith which is more so a storage and adds a little structure and a little transport but would still be a "none hollow stem". should perhaps talk more about the relative thickness of the stem walls depending on diameter. pith is spongey and will shrink once dry aswell so need to consider that in your discussion. anyway alot of mis info here and some people have taken 1st year bio so using big words and concepts but arent really sure how its applicable, so dont let that mislead you down the wrong path reading this thread.

 

[Rodehazrd]

Again that B is from a Morgan extraction cause I thought your question was about soluble B. M3 numbers would be 4 or up in a high organic potting soil. 3 works in real soil

Plus humidity plays a huge part in Ca uptake. Honestly tissue is needed to dial in Ca

Jidoka
Could you say more on humidity and Ca. I plan to try my hand at growing while staying in the high desert next season. Mostly they have 30% humidity there, will a hoop house be required to be productive there? I mostly want to run sativa for personal use so I don't need killer yields but want healthy girls.

 

[paradoxlost]

if you search I started a thread talking about this and how HEMP have hollow pithless stems and drug var tend not too. so dj likely had it wrong or perhaps was a hybrid vigor increase if choosing hemp to cross with drug var?? or thai var (half of all his hybrids afgani X thai)are more closely related to hemp and share that trait?? anyway, search hollow stems dj short and it will pop up. in any case no one knows why he said that and likely had it "wrong" depending on what your breeding goals are. ie

when less pith it does not mean it can more easily transfer nutrients and does not mean more capilaries. while pith may add some physical strength hold moisture hold stem together, thicker actual stem is what really makes them stronger and able to bend ie hemp is pretty strong stemmed .

Hemp doesn't have pithless hollow stems. If it did you wouldn't ret it and it would've been useless until CBD and biofuel we're discovered

 

[clearheaded]

DP

 

[clearheaded]

Hemp doesn't have pithless hollow stems. If it did you wouldn't ret it and it would've been useless until CBD and biofuel we're discovered

you are wrong. hemp fiber is not pith its outer ring. please read something that shows a cross section of hemp. again this is why there is alot of nonsense in this thread by people who do not have any idea other then bio 101 class. And they are not sure what they are talking about.

well quick google search just popped the first few so u can realize you are wrong even though u took a class that taught u about retting...

not trying to be a dick but dont call someone out if u have no idea what you are talking about. anyway on same team i just hate HATE mis information. we are here to learn so not a huge deal but again if going to call someone out you should be fairly certain what you are saying is true.

please note cross section of hemp stems vs drug var stems... as a noted difference in literature sooo likely a fairly consistent feature by and large with most drug hybrid var. but showing the specifically bred hemp to have pithless or hollow stems for a reason

https://www.globalhemp.com/1994/01/fi...ucky-hemp.html

"Since stalks grow from the inside out, on older plants, fiber bundles are located toward the outside. Individual fiber cells, called fundamental cells, are held together in bundles by binding substances consisting mainly of pectins. The fundamental task of the processing industry is to break down the fibers by biological mechanisms or chemical processes (called retting)."

"Another strategy has been to select stems that are hollow at the internodes, with limited wood, since this maximizes production of fiber in relation to supporting woody tissues."
"The hemp fibers are present in bundles as long as the stems, which can easily be peeled off the xylem surface by hand or machine. The fresh stem consists of a hollow cylinder of 1-5 mm thick xylem covered by 10-50 µm cambium, 100-300 µm cortex, 20-100 µm epidermis and 2-5 µm cuticle. The pith is empty space in dry stems."

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-...-of-hemp-stems

https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/cr...rint,hemp.html
https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/201...Document/48208




Also It appears the thread "hollow stems, has dj short got it all wrong" has been deleted??? cant find it but imagine powers at be may have not liked it?? showing that hemp has hollow stem so selecting males with hollow stems as DJ suggests is likely not a very wise thing?? it had a link to the paper that discussed morphological differences in hemp and drug type.

 

[redheadfreakin]

Most hemp varieties have a hollow stalk that have a very high fiber content (35%), in contrast to marijuana varieties that usually have a solid stalk having low fiber content (15%).


Schreiber, Gisela.The Hemp Handbook. Munich, Germany: Wilhelm Heyne Verlag GMBH & Co. KG, 1997.

 

[jidoka]

Jidoka
Could you say more on humidity and Ca. I plan to try my hand at growing while staying in the high desert next season. Mostly they have 30% humidity there, will a hoop house be required to be productive there? I mostly want to run sativa for personal use so I don't need killer yields but want healthy girls.

First I like your choice. But take a look at where those narrow leaf varieties come from.

There ain’t much better than a 100F GH with 80% humidity to grow them in. Get your Ca saturation to 75% and stand back

Having said that I have grown Ace’s Panama at 15% humidity with solid stems in high desert. Lots of Ca glycinate will get the job done. Just make sure to stay ahead of cell formation

In SE Co I literally use misters in GHs

 

[paradoxlost]

you are wrong. hemp fiber is not pith its outer ring. please read something that shows a cross section of hemp. again this is why there is alot of nonsense in this thread by people who do not have any idea other then bio 101 class. And they are not sure what they are talking about.

well quick google search just popped the first few so u can realize you are wrong even though u took a class that taught u about retting...

not trying to be a dick but dont call someone out if u have no idea what you are talking about. anyway on same team i just hate HATE mis information. we are here to learn so not a huge deal but again if going to call someone out you should be fairly certain what you are saying is true.

please note cross section of hemp stems vs drug var stems... as a noted difference in literature sooo likely a fairly consistent feature by and large with most drug hybrid var. but showing the specifically bred hemp to have pithless or hollow stems for a reason

https://www.globalhemp.com/1994/01/fi...ucky-hemp.html

"Since stalks grow from the inside out, on older plants, fiber bundles are located toward the outside. Individual fiber cells, called fundamental cells, are held together in bundles by binding substances consisting mainly of pectins. The fundamental task of the processing industry is to break down the fibers by biological mechanisms or chemical processes (called retting)."

"Another strategy has been to select stems that are hollow at the internodes, with limited wood, since this maximizes production of fiber in relation to supporting woody tissues."
"The hemp fibers are present in bundles as long as the stems, which can easily be peeled off the xylem surface by hand or machine. The fresh stem consists of a hollow cylinder of 1-5 mm thick xylem covered by 10-50 µm cambium, 100-300 µm cortex, 20-100 µm epidermis and 2-5 µm cuticle. The pith is empty space in dry stems."

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-...-of-hemp-stems

https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/cr...rint,hemp.html
https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/201...Document/48208




Also It appears the thread "hollow stems, has dj short got it all wrong" has been deleted??? cant find it but imagine powers at be may have not liked it?? showing that hemp has hollow stem so selecting males with hollow stems as DJ suggests is likely not a very wise thing?? it had a link to the paper that discussed morphological differences in hemp and drug type.

Hemp cross section attached, but yes I saw some that were hollow as well. Not as hollow as some of the drug cultivars but still slightly hollow. You got me on that one

But yea literally all four of your links 404ed so yea idk where you're going with this.

 

[clearheaded]

Hemp cross section attached, but yes I saw some that were hollow as well. Not as hollow as some of the drug cultivars but still slightly hollow. You got me on that one

But yea literally all four of your links 404ed so yea idk where you're going with this.

basically just talking about how pith is not where fiber comes from and then pictures comparing hemp hollow stems and drug type having more pith. perhaps bred from hemp for a reason? and to help retting? maybe . anyhoo just pointing out that pith is not the fiber you think it is or thought i guess now.. cheers

https://botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-1975-21-3.php . this work? try cut and see fig.3

"fiber cultivars have hollow stems at internodes, which helps them use the energy in production of fiber in the phloem"

Anyway, hopefully that clears up hemp morphology and fiber production for u

 

[paradoxlost]

basically just talking about how pith is not where fiber comes from and then pictures comparing hemp hollow stems and drug type having more pith. perhaps bred from hemp for a reason? and to help retting? maybe . anyhoo just pointing out that pith is not the fiber you think it is or thought i guess now.. cheers

https://botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-1975-21-3.php . this work? try cut and see fig.3

"fiber cultivars have hollow stems at internodes, which helps them use the energy in production of fiber in the phloem"

Anyway, hopefully that clears up hemp morphology and fiber production for u

No it doesn't your sources are all 404ed which makes me think you're just talking out of your ass posting links you don't think I'll check

 

[Avenger]

icmag automagically adds an 'S' into all http links, this fucks up the functionality of any link that is not https for most web browsers

this:
wwwDOTglobalhemp.com/1994/01/fiber-wars-the-extinction-of-kentucky-hemp.html

becomes this:
https://www.globalhemp.com/1994/01/fiber-wars-the-extinction-of-kentucky-hemp.html

try it yourself

 

[Rodehazrd]

First I like your choice. But take a look at where those narrow leaf varieties come from.

There ain’t much better than a 100F GH with 80% humidity to grow them in. Get your Ca saturation to 75% and stand back

Having said that I have grown Ace’s Panama at 15% humidity with solid stems in high desert. Lots of Ca glycinate will get the job done. Just make sure to stay ahead of cell formation

In SE Co I literally use misters in GHs

Thanks for your kind attention Jidoka, we will be on the west slope near Junction. I have the Bodhi zipolite and gold pkg and have just popped some Bangi Haze by Ace and am looking at the Bangi and Panama crosses.. Any other strain suggestions for that area would be very welcome. I want to have at least one run under the belt before going out there.
Any sources for that Cal glycinate I find it in pills.

 

[jidoka]

Custom hydro biomin Ca

We should have a beer at Kandahar sometime

 

[clearheaded]

No it doesn't your sources are all 404ed which makes me think you're just talking out of your ass posting links you don't think I'll check

just was trying to help, but u simply can use the google and find out the very basic info about hemp. if you cant figure it out even when basically spoon fed information not much i can do lol. And i have no reason to talk out of my ass lol its science my man, the truth is out there at least by now you realize your idea about pith was incorrect

This link works for me will re post with no s. but see fig 3. you can cut and paste into google and will come up as well. or run your own search.

www.botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-1975-21-3.php . botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-1975-21-3.php cut and paste. and maybe use chrom or firefox??

"fiber cultivars have hollow stems at internodes, which helps them use the energy in production of fiber in the phloem" from fig 3. of a published paper. lol not sure why you keep grasping at straws, and likely will try and take a shot at me personally when find out your incorrect.

less agro culture and more agriculture as chimera says Just dont call people out when you dont KNOW.

Anyway, hopefully that clears up hemp morphology and fiber production for u. your thoughts are likely what DJ thought that pith was actually the fiber so selecting hollow stem meant less hemp like, which of course is incorrect. in fact I think he even says that, but has its backwards unfortunetly.