Hey guys update after 4 days they come back bummer this time ISO the walls ceiling floors everywhere and plants and after 3 days I'm going to hit them with azadirachtin mixed with Eco oil and after five days hit them with abamectin rotation of the two products hopefully no resistance one mite can colanise a plant in five days, The brand names over her are different to you guys brand names but main ingredients are very similar,I spoke with a specialist that helps farmers with insecticides for pests he gave me two other products 1 is $360 a litre the other $250 a litre that's crazy but he reckons it will do the job hopefully don't have to down that road.
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Hemp Russet Mites!! Help?
- Thread starter Treetroit City
- Start date
The Joker1
Member
I just looked up Master Nursery Pest Fighter and it says "refined mineral oil'. It's been the most effective thing I had used until this happened. Cheap and available at my local nursery.
That was my go to before all this went down, but I'm not sure where it went awry. I've been using it on the clones and just hit the moms with it for the first time. I use an atomizer. We'll see. So far, no new eggs, no bodies, no nothing for a few weeks, but I've seen this before. The only difference is I had about 40 plants and now I have 6. I've thrown all my soil away etc. Next grow is going to be coco if these clones root.
So I did some research and looked at some studies. There are SEVERAL types of Horticultural oils and not all are the same, NOR do they have the same effects. JMS Stylet is Paraffinic Oil. It's basically a form of Kerosene. Mineral Oil is completely different, although both can be sold as Horticultural Oil.
The difference between mineral oil and paraffinic oil.
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Whats_the_difference_between_mineral_oil_and_paraffin_oil
And this is a really good study testing different kinds of horticultural oils and their effects on mites
https://jenny.tfrec.wsu.edu/ehb/pdf/7171.pdf
I'm going to order some of that JMS stylet oil today and see how it works!
Thank you!!!!
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If your looking for an approved mineral oil: (RE: http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/shared/Do...PesticidesPARC/GuidelistPesticideCannabis.pdf )
Mineral Oil suggestion: BioWorks SuffOil-X is labeled for the target and tank mixes nicely. Products tank-mixed (individually, not stacked) included Grandevo and Grandevo WDG, BotaniGard/Mycotrol, Venerate and Sil-Matrix.
For plants less than 12 leaf, products were used at 1/2 lower label recommendations on first spray or emersion.
Mineral Oil suggestion: BioWorks SuffOil-X is labeled for the target and tank mixes nicely. Products tank-mixed (individually, not stacked) included Grandevo and Grandevo WDG, BotaniGard/Mycotrol, Venerate and Sil-Matrix.
For plants less than 12 leaf, products were used at 1/2 lower label recommendations on first spray or emersion.
paradoxlost
Member
For mites, or any kind, go out and purchase Stethorus punctillum and Amblyseius falacis as well as plant a pot or six full of alfalfa, buckwheat, and marigold. Now put that in your grow room. If you want to get crazy go get some geranium oil, cinnamon oil, clove oil, and if you really want throw in your favorite essential oil. Than heat stir crushed soap nuts for 6 hours in solution. Spray once a day for a week.
OR
before the predators get there buy Beauvaria bassiania and create a solution with 8.5 * 10^8 cfus/ml. Spray, than wait 4 days, spray, than wait 4 days, spray. Than bring in the predator ecology.
Stop with the systemics and stop with the neem. Don't let this shit get out of control.
OR
before the predators get there buy Beauvaria bassiania and create a solution with 8.5 * 10^8 cfus/ml. Spray, than wait 4 days, spray, than wait 4 days, spray. Than bring in the predator ecology.
Stop with the systemics and stop with the neem. Don't let this shit get out of control.
paradoxlost
Member
That so crazy you're using mineral oil for a pesticide spray, we used to use it in rain gauges to make sure nothing evaporated out between check ups. It stuck around, even in 130 degree weather.
That's some natural shit there those plants what give of natures scent to put the mites off I've heard of people doing that with tomatoes so you've had this problem before and it's worked for you and predatory mites these ones eat a lot of eggs more than five a day sounds good.
The Joker1
Member
Botanigard and Met52 have been ineffective as stand alone products for the mites I have. Even with sustained 70% humidity , the slow pace at which the fungus kills them allows them to lay eggs before they die. Maybe PART of I PM . I got rid of broads fairly quickly but these mites came resistant to everything.
paradoxlost
Member
You're not using a strong enough strength. Multiple studies show that the difference between 1*10^7 and 1*10^8 was the difference between 50% kill and 90%. Than with repeated spraying, predators, and cultural practices you should be rid of them.
The Joker1
Member
What does that mean? Met52 recommends 12 ml per gallon. What’s an increase? Double ? I tried it every 5 days, every 3 days and even every day. Increased humidity to 70% as instructed. Takes 5 days to kill a mite. Enough time to lay an egg.
Now outdoors on my orange and lemon trees with cool foggy SF Bay evenings... very effective with weekly spraying in winter and spring . Sprayed outside during the warm summer and fall, less effective. I was also using it on my tomatoes which were under attack with mixed results. Tried Botanigard and Met52. It was amazing at first outdoors, but as summer heated up and the Rh dropped the mites ate up my tomatoes , beets and eggplant leaves. I grow veggies all year organically.
I got stylet oil today which is also fungicidal. Going to foliar with that and continue with Met 52 in soil. As foliars they negate each other.
Regarding JMS from the literature:
“Plant feeding insects and mites probe into plant tissue using microscopic hollow hairs called sensillae to detect secondary chemicals in the host plant that trigger critical insect behaviors such as feeding and egg laying. Stylet oil works by plugging the hollow sensillae with oil, making it impossible for the insect to recognize it is on a host plant. Without recognition, harmful insects and mites will not feed or lay eggs.”
“ Stylet is a food grade quality mineral oil”
Going to use predatory mites outdoor on my citrus and veggies this year. I don’t want to kill bees or beneficial insects with oil. That’s why I tried the fungus as it doesn’t harm bees.
Now outdoors on my orange and lemon trees with cool foggy SF Bay evenings... very effective with weekly spraying in winter and spring . Sprayed outside during the warm summer and fall, less effective. I was also using it on my tomatoes which were under attack with mixed results. Tried Botanigard and Met52. It was amazing at first outdoors, but as summer heated up and the Rh dropped the mites ate up my tomatoes , beets and eggplant leaves. I grow veggies all year organically.
I got stylet oil today which is also fungicidal. Going to foliar with that and continue with Met 52 in soil. As foliars they negate each other.
Regarding JMS from the literature:
“Plant feeding insects and mites probe into plant tissue using microscopic hollow hairs called sensillae to detect secondary chemicals in the host plant that trigger critical insect behaviors such as feeding and egg laying. Stylet oil works by plugging the hollow sensillae with oil, making it impossible for the insect to recognize it is on a host plant. Without recognition, harmful insects and mites will not feed or lay eggs.”
“ Stylet is a food grade quality mineral oil”
Going to use predatory mites outdoor on my citrus and veggies this year. I don’t want to kill bees or beneficial insects with oil. That’s why I tried the fungus as it doesn’t harm bees.
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paradoxlost
Member
With the dosage you are using it's 3.5*10^7 cfus per ml. Which is effective but not completely, according to most studies I've seen. Than obviously you gotta spray till it drops down the stem
that's disturbing, but it does contradict a long history in agricultural use
usda approved for many years
however, i do prefer the essential oils since their history is even longer
The Joker1
Member
You should educate yourselves about the many kinds of mineral oil , their uses and purposes.
JMS is 100% organic parrafinic oil and approved for Cannabis cultivation.
Master Nursery Pest Fighter is made from another kind of mineral oil but is not organic.
Most Horticultural oils are a type of mineral oil.
I’ve been using Master Nursery Year Round Oil for years . The only disadvantage is that if you are spraying near a exterior wall , you have to clean with soap before painting . I had been spraying roses with it to combat PM for years. When I power washed the house before painting , the water was beading off the walls behind the roses. It builds up. Indoors, I’ve used TSP before priming. I paint my grow cabs twice a year.
JMS is 100% organic parrafinic oil and approved for Cannabis cultivation.
Master Nursery Pest Fighter is made from another kind of mineral oil but is not organic.
Most Horticultural oils are a type of mineral oil.
I’ve been using Master Nursery Year Round Oil for years . The only disadvantage is that if you are spraying near a exterior wall , you have to clean with soap before painting . I had been spraying roses with it to combat PM for years. When I power washed the house before painting , the water was beading off the walls behind the roses. It builds up. Indoors, I’ve used TSP before priming. I paint my grow cabs twice a year.
paradoxlost
Member
Yea, idk I mean we bought it at the store where it was being sold as a laxative.
But I mean if usda says its alright, shit must be fine.
paradoxlost
Member
So you want to coat your plant's stomatas with something that clearly sticks around for years and makes a water resistant shield? I'm not saying you'll get sick from it, I'm saying your plants won't thrive. But if you have PM they aren't thriving to begin with I guess.
that's plain old mineral oil, which isn't quite horticultural oil
usda isn't all bad, but you do need to be educated and choosy
but compared to some things i see people admitting to in mite threads?
god knows what manner of toxic crap gets used that people are not posting about
paradoxlost
Member
Haha yup, compared to a lot of stuff people use mineral oil is great. I'll give you that one. But hey I heard that nerve gas gets a 100% kill rate on mites and most soft bodied insects.
The Joker1
Member
Yep. I live near a large bay and a large river. All the trees in my neighborhood have PM and Rust. 1 mile inland the temps are about 10 degrees warmer and my friends have no PM. The SF Bay Area has micro-climates . My roses are all over 16 years old so they are ok with spray. PM comes from spores in the air. If your climate is ripe with spores , your plants will get it. It has nothing to do with health. I read a lot of bullshit about plants only getting pm when unhealthy. If you walk into a room of people with the flu and they all sneeze on you, you are going to get it no matter how healthy you are or what you believe.I tried the mythological cures. I sprayed fresh compost tea etc . Only two organic methods worked : Regalia and Horticultural oil. ( Regalia has to be sprayed at the very beginning of Spring, if you see PM and apply, it’s too late). At this point , Having changed my landscape for years, I’ve only got plants that are drought, mold and fungus resistant except for citrus , veggies and roses.
Applying logic to your comment about oils:
Roses and Cannabis moms have a lot in common. As a matter of fact , I prune them nearly identically. All inward growing branches are removed. All shoots and branches that cross another are removed. The major difference is that the roses are cut back twice a year to four stems , no leaves no anything. That would kill Cannabis. The Cannabis moms get cut back to look like asparagus , root trimmed and replanted to invigorate new growth. Once in a while I take clones, pick the healthiest and that’s the new mom.
Your comment forgets impermanence. Plants are always growing. They get rained on and foliar fed, rinsing off dirt and residue. Nothing sticks or lasts forever. If that were true my roses would not have lasted 16 years and my Pure Kush mom would not have lasted 12 years even with mites , being coated with oil hundreds of times. UV light breaks everything down.
In addition , we prune both the shoots and the roots of mother plants to allow new growth.
Even a coating like oil breaks down over time. It’s not possible for it to last “ forever”. If it was, the Horticultural oil I sprayed last year should still be protecting the orange tree this year. But it’s impermanent like you and me. It breaks down.
If Horticultural oils permanently damaged and clogged stomata , a lot of gardeners would have dead gardens. Organic farming would be in big trouble.
Now... from experience in the real world ... excessive spraying of oils is harmful. Observation will tell you what your plants can handle by both the condition of your sprayed leaves and the vigor of the new growth.
paradoxlost
Member
There are pm spores everywhere not just the SF Bay area. You can swab test leaves from across the country and you will find spores. Just like you'll find fusarium in basically every soil in the world. Also why of you swab test every humans skin on the planet, no matter how clean you'll find staph.
And i mean yea there's a threshold, but I one time foliared bee pollen into a dense plant. It was completely blended right and the food scraps started rotting on the leaves and stems. But the plant didn't get infected, cause it was strong as shit immunilogically. Now it was a high CBD plant so maybe it had a stronger genetic potential of a regular plant, but I've seen girl scout in hydro get mold from light spraying and the same cut in organic soil get sprayed a week before harvest heavy and be fine. Shit a normal part of our foliar regime is spraying bacteria into the canopy.
If you start your IPM regime after you've found a problem it's already too late. Maybe you'll need to nudge it along the way, but for the most part once equilibrium is found it's self regulating. Most natural ecosystems NEVER have plant disease or blight do anything but kill old or damaged plants. Like I could rub pm spores all over a mature juniper tree that's growing in Yosemite and I can assure you it'll be fine.
Also the oil not lasting forever is true, but cannabis is what a 20 week lifestyle at the very longest, from seed to harvest. Mineral oil is timeless from that perspective. I'm all for spraying essential oils constantly, and they leave residue for sure, but it's not as hydrophobic as straight mineral oil.
A 12 year old mom is wicked cool though. Is it all bonsaied
Wizards brew!
It's plant based and made in Colorado!!
You soak the plant with lights on or off; I opted for lights off. 2 treatments within 3 days and no more of the little buggers for me. I'll be spraying for a month or so to make sure I am rid of them!
Look em up on instagram!
I plan on using a frost fighter heater to heat my rooms to 140 for 5-6 hours after flower rooms come down and have no plans in them.
It's plant based and made in Colorado!!
You soak the plant with lights on or off; I opted for lights off. 2 treatments within 3 days and no more of the little buggers for me. I'll be spraying for a month or so to make sure I am rid of them!
Look em up on instagram!
I plan on using a frost fighter heater to heat my rooms to 140 for 5-6 hours after flower rooms come down and have no plans in them.
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