Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[AntelopeDope]

I know man, I just said that and gave its explanation.

Personal insults. This is why we can't have nice things.

According to most here, we don't have nice things anyways.

Screw that healthcare system that takes care of everyone, illegals included, and asks questions later. Or the system that paid for my operation, a recent college graduate dropped from insurance. Screw those nice things.

We need real reform, not a Government takeover.

Instead, some really think they'd rather have this:

"“On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.” "

 

[movingtocally]

We need real reform, not a Government takeover.

OK. Antelopedope runs shit, what does he do to fix health care?

 

[Texicannibus]

Just going to post my opinion please take it as such.

I hope that this bill does not pass the senate. I am scared to see what will come out of commitee. People have to realize that behind closed doors anything can be added and or removed once this goes to commitee.

The likely result of this will be a assault on the free market system wich has made this country great.

The main issues in the health care system that need to be addressed imo... costs , fraud, and abuse. Education about the current systems (medicaid and medicare) needs to be more prevelant. Tort reform is a major issue in cost and fraud and has to be addressed to make any fundamental advancement. The plans proposed dont address these very important factors and as such are basically fodder.

I have no issues with anyone that believes otherwise these are merely my opinions.

 

[haze crazy]

they not figure out what was wrong with me (oh, I did...it was an alergy to soymilk)...but I was laying on a hospital bed in the ER hallwayfor over 8 hours.

\

Or maybe it was the built in pesticide Mon santa put in the soybeans. They call it genetically modified seeds or roundup ready seeds. Those GMO"s are causing great systemic harm to folks and Mon santa even got the Government to make laws to sue people who speak out against it!

Check out how the Bill Clinton appointed the fox to guard the hen house. Micheal Taylor held positions in both FDA and the USDA. The story about girl in the dirty blue dress pales in comparison...

 

[VerdantGreen]

welcome to the developed world America

 

[haze crazy]

lol, brainwashed. You are complete, dogmatic, talking points. Your poor starved brain :-/

Back at you!

Funny how when someone has no legitimate argument on a particular point in a conversation resort to a personal attack to deflect the issue and thereby changing the subject. This technique is used often in debates when a person find themselves trapped in a dogmatic quagmire to which they no original thoughts to put forth. A personal attack is a sure sign of a poor argument!

Where's the meat? And again ...WTF would Jesus do???? Do you really think he would get stoned and sit in front of the TV watching (and believing) FOX news All day?

 

[slappyjack]

Republicans hate it because it's going to work. Democrats like it because it's going to work.

I like it because the Insurance Industry has been getting away with legalized robbery for decades. The bill FINALLY makes those practices illegal. This is probably the best news for average Americans since the New Deal.

Some regressive folks still don't understand how huge this change is, but they will when the benefits start kicking in.

It's the first victory in The People vs. Corporations fight in modern American history. Not a simple feat and it's now on it's way to becoming law. Great work Mr. President and Madam Speaker!

 

[haze crazy]

Anyone ?

LMFAO

Oh yeah let's see what comes from Pandora" box this time!

Put your boots(deep) and your gloves(ouch) on, this is a battle beween the have's (insurance) and the have not's. Plus a few selfish and selfless thrown in for color!

 

[Kiffen]

About freaking time, heathcare is a right! Funny (NOT) how the naysayers complain about the price of healthcare. Here are a few of points to consider.

Is voting against healthcare a selfless or selfish act? What would jesUs do?

Equal access to healthcare by all people will actually help prevent sickness and hospitalizations thereby bringing down costs.

Are the billions and billions of dollars already spent (plus lives lost) seeking revenge for the Twin Towers attacks any better spent?

Maybe if US.GOV went over to it's adversaries with bricks, mortar, books and medical equipment and did something constructive rather than bringing bombs, guns and a bad attitude... we would be much better off. This notion of revenge and war is far too primitive for the 21st century. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.

The far right wing in America totes a thumping bible in one hand while screaming abortion is murder! In the other hand is aiming a gun at it's enemies. Does anyone else see the conflict here? Why is any babies life worth so much more than anyone else's life?

If we all spent more time preserving life, rather than being selfish and trying to destroy it, All of us would not have to worry about any terrorist attacks.

"...pound of security is not worth an ounce of liberty..." Ben Franklin

"Education and selfless acts are the best growing mediums for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Me

"...take a look at the big picture here..." My Parents

I would ignore this sort of ignorant nonsense but since you decided to bring in Jesus, Abortion and New York City coming under attack.......

1. I just checked the founding Documents..... Heathcare is not a right, not even if you say it over and over.

2. In regards to Jesus, Bringing religion into a policy debate is bullshit no matter who does it.

3. The "if everyone has heathcare it will bring cost down" line.... OK smart guy.... Prove it or share your source so I can show you haw false that is.

4. 9-11........ Wow, Really? did you loose anyone? Know anyone that has? Care at all about national security? When someone or a group kills thousands of your people, and attacks your allies you don't send band aids and x-ray machines you send napalm. If your way worked then why do aid workers get decapitated? "Guns bombs and a bad attitude"? Grow up and do some research, this isn't a path to utopia lab experiment.

5. How the hell are you going to talk about abortion, then talk about preserving life. You better go learn some history if you want to learn from it. Start with General Pershing and his activities in the Philippines.

6. Do you honestly think that patriotic Americans are going to tolerate a government telling them they have to buy insurance so they can tell them what to do and what to eat? I mean really? You don't think this bill will spark a the biggest fire this county has ever seen? I really think those of you on the far left in the US had better think long and hard about what your reps are doing, you might think that your sticking it to George W. and the conservatives of this country but all your really doing is pushing them across the engagement line, and once it starts there will be no quelling it, this will not be a ghetto riot, it will be a full blown conflict. I doubt that the Moveon.org types will be saying anything like you have once the rounds take flight.

Ben was right... to bad you don't understand what he was getting at.

 

[Hydrosun]

LMFAO

Oh yeah let's see what comes from Pandora" box this time!

Put your boots(deep) and your gloves(ouch) on, this is a battle beween the have's (insurance) and the have not's. Plus a few selfish and selfless thrown in for color!

What about me a group of one an individual; shouldn't I be allowed to be free? Why can't I live and die as I want, call it my religious belief, I feel it immoral and against natural law my god to steal or TAKE from others who are being forced to GIVE at a point of a gun. No government has my sanction to steal from my neighbor; not in my name!

I think a proud organization summed up my thoughts centuries ago "Death before dishonor!"

Peace,

 

[Rainman]

OK some of you are simply ridiculous! And if you havent served this country's military dont go spouting off about dishonor. It is so boring to watch you fumble around the Beckisms and O'reily speak as you talk about rights and infringments on them. ANy original arguements on the subject? It is obvious that 98% are just regurging what you heard on Fox as facts and have no clue about how the bill will work or effect you. Like little rats scurrying out of the light. You are not being forced to pay for anything and the gov. will not be running the care but subsidizing it for those who cannot aford it. If you have healthcare, your coverage wont change at all. The Public option just gives the uncovered a low cost avenue to healthcare. Now all the right wing conservatives can reiterate more of Beck, but no matter how much you cry foul, the truth is it is great for our country and the average American.

 

[Hydrosun]

OK some of you are simply ridiculous! And if you havent served this country's military dont go spouting off about dishonor. It is so boring to watch you fumble around the Beckisms and O'reily speak as you talk about rights and infringments on them. ANy original arguements on the subject? It is obvious that 98% are just regurging what you heard on Fox as facts and have no clue about how the bill will work or effect you. Like little rats scurrying out of the light. You are not being forced to pay for anything and the gov. will not be running the care but subsidizing it for those who cannot aford it. If you have healthcare, your coverage wont change at all. The Public option just gives the uncovered a low cost avenue to healthcare. Now all the right wing conservatives can reiterate more of Beck, but no matter how much you cry foul, the truth is it is great for our country and the average American.

Wow, you have made some huge assumptions there.

You now have the right to regulate my speech? As a point of fact I learned more about the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence than the clowns you mentioned before my fourteenth birthday. Not that it matters but I don't watch the channel you mentioned and change it to music if visiting friends

My understanding of this new bill is I will be forced to register and pay money, or else I am a criminal in a new way. Is that not true? Am I free to sit here stoned listening to music and NEVER register? If so I will shut the fuck up and apologize for my ignorance.

I was born in an army hospital so my experience with government healthcare and military service goes back a long way. You are correct this is a great country, if I am free; if not this is a very scary country.

Not throwing any personal attacks, just wanting to be stoned and free.

Peace,

 

[SpasticGramps]

Back at you!

Funny how when someone has no legitimate argument on a particular point in a conversation resort to a personal attack to deflect the issue and thereby changing the subject. This technique is used often in debates when a person find themselves trapped in a dogmatic quagmire to which they no original thoughts to put forth. A personal attack is a sure sign of a poor argument!

Where's the meat? And again ...WTF would Jesus do???? Do you really think he would get stoned and sit in front of the TV watching (and believing) FOX news All day?

WTF would Jesus do? LMAO. Are you serious? That's how y'all are selling health care now.

Look I certainly believe health insurance needs to be reformed. Tort reform as well. Make health insurance accessible across state borders. This bill is insanity. The price tag alone should scare the living shit out of everyone. All the money that Bush spent and now the loads that Obama is hemroageing is going to cost the country. Aside from my complete ideological opposition to the bill, I don't think the country can bare the long term costs. We are already in a financially precarious situation.

 

[Rainman]

Listen to what you have said! If I cant afford healthcare to begin with, the government is going to pass a healthcare bill that will force me to pay for healthcare, otherwise I am a criminal? Even in our crazy and upside down times does that sound rational? Read the bill and look at what you are fighting against. You should be more outraged that that this wasnt done 50 years ago just so the companies and politicians could suck the American people dry over profit. We could have paid for this 20 fold with the ridiculous money we spend on defense and watsful spending of your politicians. Medicine that costs $60 a pill, $2,000 toiles, bridges to no where, politicians traveling the world on your dime to screw Brazilian models, etc...... Why no outrage for that bullshit? But the richest country on the planet that I "have" fought for cant give basic medical coverage to its own people? Sorry to rant but lets just think about whats at stake.

 

[litebuzz]

it will never pass the senate.

 

[Hydrosun]

Listen to what you have said! If I cant afford healthcare to begin with, the government is going to pass a healthcare bill that will force me to pay for healthcare, otherwise I am a criminal? Even in our crazy and upside down times does that sound rational? Read the bill and look at what you are fighting against. You should be more outraged that that this wasnt done 50 years ago just so the companies and politicians could suck the American people dry over profit. We could have paid for this 20 fold with the ridiculous money we spend on defense and watsful spending of your politicians. Medicine that costs $60 a pill, $2,000 toiles, bridges to no where, politicians traveling the world on your dime to screw Brazilian models, etc...... Why no outrage for that bullshit? But the richest country on the planet that I "have" fought for cant give basic medical coverage to its own people? Sorry to rant but lets just think about whats at stake.

I asked you very specific questions about my right to do nothing and sit here stoned. I never said if I could or could not afford anything. I said that I should not be given anything I can't afford; because that would mean stealing from you.

I appreciate your service and your freedom to rant; but "The richest country" affording this or that collectivist / socialist program is ANTI-AMERICAN. I am a very well read constitutional scholar and have a big personal interest in the philosophy and writings of the founding fathers.

I don't want to have this discussion on a personal level; but I want to advocate for the individual.

So I ask you again sir; does the freedom you put your life on the line for include the freedom to dissent and peacefully resist by staying stoned and UNREGISTERED in my home?

Peace,

 

[Texicannibus]

Id like to bring a bit of info I have found that seems to counterdict some statements made about the defense budget as compared to the health care costs.

That seems to indicate we spend 1.5 trillion on health care without the added cost this bill will bring. It also seems to indicate that the defense budget cost 700 billion.

edit: It also shows that our interest on our debt right now is basically the same amount we spend on defense.

 

[haze crazy]

I would ignore this sort of ignorant nonsense but since you decided to bring in Jesus, Abortion and New York City coming under attack.......

Here are those personal attacks again...LOL

What? You don't see any relationship to any of these things?

1. I just checked the founding Documents..... Heathcare is not a right, not even if you say it over and over.

I have to call you out on this one buddy... You wrote "#1. I just checked the founding Documents".... MY ASS!!! YOU DID NOT! For if you had checked the SECOND LINE OF THE CONSTITUTION you would have read "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" What part of life can be had without proper health care, Why the very first UNALIENABLE right mentioned is life. Life is impossible without heath, and to maintain health you must care for it. All this seems so obvious to me, how can any intelligent person not get it?

Those three words: "certain unalienable rights" in the second sentence. Why do you think they chose to use the word LIFE as the first unalienable right?

It's more about human rights my friend. Even our founding fathers didn't think of everything.( or maybe they did!) And tell me, while you are looking through the "founding documents" (yeah right, LOL) where does the "patriot act" fit into the constitution or the bill of rights? The patriot act reads much more like a "Hitler's decree" Read my lips "Bush raped the constitution" Here I go back to Ben Franklin's famous words "A pound of security is not worth an ounce of liberty" Sorry, I digress...

2. In regards to Jesus, Bringing religion into a policy debate is bullshit no matter who does it.

You must think Jesus would have acted differently... there must be some conflict here. To deny talking on this point with a meaningless word like bullshit brings no legitimate argument to the table. Jesus (or the fine example he set for us to live our life) has nothing to do with policy? If Jesus is not relevant to this conversation why is the second line of the constitution "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

Let's consider the 2 words "their Creator" ...who do you think this reefers (sorry, had to say it) to? If policy is not supposed to consider "what Jesus thinks" why would the SECOND LINE OF THE CONSTITUTION read " endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

What is this creator thing all about then???

"#1. I just checked the founding Documents".... MY ASS!!

3. The "if everyone has heathcare it will bring cost down" line.... OK smart guy.... Prove it or share your source so I can show you haw false that is.

" it's just common sense ...if you don't get a headache, you will never pay (buy the asprin) to fix it"

C'mon use your head man...

There is nothing for me to prove here except a lack of common sense. Sorry people, I had to take this one cheap shot here, it was just way too easy...

4. 9-11........ Wow, Really? did you loose anyone? Know anyone that has? Care at all about national security? When someone or a group kills thousands of your people, and attacks your allies you don't send band aids and x-ray machines you send napalm. If your way worked then why do aid workers get decapitated? "Guns bombs and a bad attitude"? Grow up and do some research, this isn't a path to utopia lab experiment.

As a matter of fact yes... I cried for days... that fact really is not relevant to this conversation. And my first instinct was to bomb the shit out out of anyone who thought 9/11 was a good thing. But I took a few (MANY) deep breaths (like Yoga) and gave the situation some serious consideration. How would blowing up a country or two make the world better for one thing???

Violence is never the answer...and two wrongs don't make it right.

Osama Bin Laden attacks and we go to his home and kill everyone who looks or thinks like him. Is that how you view justice? Or do you see a more systemic ideological problem and try to educate those around him that were are not so bad at all. By going over there with guns a blazing, shooting the place up only confirms what Osama told his followers in the first place. To paraphrase Osama; "they (westerners) are just a bunch of redneck thugs who want to kill us and make us change the way we live" What if we showed them different? Maybe it's too late for that...

Even my youngest kid knows if you get bit by a fire ant you don't get even by kicking the nest and hanging around ...just to get bit again. For ants eradication might work, with humans the long term answer is education IMHO.

5. How the hell are you going to talk about abortion, then talk about preserving life. You better go learn some history if you want to learn from it. Start with General Pershing and his activities in the Philippines.

My family beckons, I have a life and can't argue with you all day here about irrelevant points... another diversionary tactic of those who want to deflect the real issue at hand.

Do you think I meant it was wrong to be pro-LIFE? Nothing could be farther from the truth...

6. Do you honestly think that patriotic Americans are going to tolerate a government telling them they have to buy insurance so they can tell them what to do and what to eat? I mean really? You don't think this bill will spark a the biggest fire this county has ever seen? I really think those of you on the far left in the US had better think long and hard about what your reps are doing, you might think that your sticking it to George W. and the conservatives of this country but all your really doing is pushing them across the engagement line, and once it starts there will be no quelling it, this will not be a ghetto riot, it will be a full blown conflict. I doubt that the Moveon.org types will be saying anything like you have once the rounds take flight.

Maybe you are missing the point here. The part about "you must buy insurance or be fined" in the bill was to satisfy the right wing politicians who receive "donations" from the insurance lobby ...so they keep getting those "donations" This bill is not perfect, but it is a start.

I'm all for tort reform and putting a tax on those convenient unhealthy foods. Let's subsidize healthy foods instead of the GMO corn that gets fed to the cows that makes McD's hamburgers cheap. Wouldn't it be cool if it were less expensive to eat healthy foods than buying hormone laden chemically processed fatty foods? Oh, then poor people wouldn't get ill so quickly and become a burden on the healthcare system in the first place.

Ben was right... to bad you don't understand what he was getting at.

I watch Fox news too.... I know exactly what you two are getting at.

It's all about the money honey....Who cares if crazy uncle Pete can't get the operation he needs to save his life because people don't (health) care about each other.

 

[KGB47]

Can you name one major(however you define it)spending spree that is not a necessary carry-over from previous administration fuck ups that you disagree with?

Seriously. Just one.

The only reason the deficit has tripled in eight months is the recession, which Obama inherited. And I know of no serious person who really believes the federal government should have sat back and let the US economy spiral into the abyss rather than try to stabilize it with a bank bailout and stimulus.

You're wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin...

Stimulus=Multi-trillion dollar failure that's tied to a massive loan from China plus unemployment and the deficit have gone UP since congress passed it and your president signed it. The few jobs it did create are only funded for about one year, yes ONE YEAR! This is a fact, not fiction.

The slight recession that obama should have easily dealt with has turned into a huge boondoggle, you don't spend yourself out of debt no matter how much you spend. The US government doesn't make money, it collects it from us, obama is spending YOUR money without your permission.

Cash for Clunkers=failure. Many dealerships are still waiting to be reimbursed with our money and it did nothing to reduce air pollution, it put more cars on the roads because many of the traded-in cars were older, non functioning vehicles.This also is fact.

And now your president wants to spend 11 Trillion of our tax dollars over the next 10 years to fix something that isn't broken. If he really wants to change the health insurance companies he should lift the state restrictions that tie their hand now. The people want jobs not radical taxation and massive government control of their daily lives.

 

[SpasticGramps]

You're wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin...

Stimulus=Multi-trillion dollar failure that's tied to a massive loan from China plus unemployment and the deficit have gone UP since congress passed it and your president signed it. The few jobs it did create are only funded for about one year, yes ONE YEAR! This is a fact, not fiction.

The slight recession that obama should have easily dealt with has turned into a huge boondoggle, you don't spend yourself out of debt no matter how much you spend. The US government doesn't make money, it collects it from us, obama is spending YOUR money without your permission.

Cash for Clunkers=failure. Many dealerships are still waiting to be reimbursed with our money and it did nothing to reduce air pollution, it put more cars on the roads because many of the traded-in cars were older, non functioning vehicles.This also is fact.

And now your president wants to spend 11 Trillion of our tax dollars over the next 10 years to fix something that isn't broken. If he really wants to change the health insurance companies he should lift the state restrictions that tie their hand now. The people want jobs not radical taxation and massive government control of their daily lives.

One thing I disagree with is that the US government can make money and this a very big problem with our debt and all this spending. Wiemar Republic anyone?