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Have you looked at the North Pole lately?
- Thread starter igrowone
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TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Even the Roman army had to start dumping garrisons eventually.
And just like the game of Risk, anyone who tries to hold Eurasia gets eaten alive no matter how many armies you have.
And just like the game of Risk, anyone who tries to hold Eurasia gets eaten alive no matter how many armies you have.
so i'm going to troll you now...did you even understand the article you posted? you obviously did not as it affirms my point and explains why coronal holes affect atmospherics.
sources for all have already been posted in this thread. go read my posts...
suddenly you're an expert because you've read CNN or listened to NPR or believe the UNIPCC?
i've been very careful to provide links to sources of what i post, am i supposed to repost those links to every attack?
Variations In The Solar Constant
. Observations with very stable and precise detectors on several Earth-orbiting satellites show that the Sun’s total radiative input to the Earth, termed the solar irradiance, is not a constant, but instead varies over time scales of days and years. Measurements from five independent space-based radiometers since 1978 (top) have been combined to produce the composite solar irradiance (bottom) over two decades. They show that the Sun’s output fluctuates during each 11-year sunspot cycle, changing by about 0.1 percent between maximums (1980 and 1990) and minimums (1987 and 1997) in magnetic activity. Temporary dips of up to 0.3 percent and a few days’ duration are due to the presence of large sunspots on the visible hemisphere. The larger number of sunspots near the peak in the 11-year cycle is accompanied by a rise in magnetic activity that creates an increase in luminous output that exceeds the cooling effects of sunspots. Here the total irradiance just outside our atmosphere, called the solar constant, is given in units of watts per square meter, where one watt is equivalent to one joule per second. The capital letters are acronyms for the different radiometers, and offsets among the various data sets are the direct result of uncertainties in their scales. Despite these offsets, each data set clearly shows varying radiation levels that track the overall 11-year solar activity cycle. (Courtesy of Claus Fröhlich.)
https://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/view_picture.asp?id=110
Holes In Sun's Corona Linked To Atmospheric Temperature Changes On Earth
Date:March 15, 2000Source:Long Island University Summary:An unusual interdisciplinary study by astronomers and climatologists has found a striking correlation between holes in the outermost layer of the sun--or the corona--and the globally averaged temperature of the Earth, suggesting that the Earth's atmospheric temperature may be strongly linked to solar magnetism changes over months or years.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000315080417.htm&
Cosmic Influence on the Sun-Earth Environment
Abstract
SOHO satellite data reveals geophysical changes before sudden changes in the Earth's Sun-Earth environment. The influence of extragalactic changes on the Sun as well as the Sun-Earth environment seems to be both periodic and episodic. The periodic changes in terms of solar maxima and minima occur every 11 years, whereas the episodic changes can happen at any time. Episodic changes can be monitored by cosmic ray detectors as a sudden increase or decrease of activity. During these solar and cosmic anomaly periods the environment of the Earth is affected. The Star-Sun-Earth connection has the potential to influence the thermosphere, atmosphere, ionosphere and lithosphere. Initial correlation of the cosmic and Sun-Earth connection has shown the possibility of predicting earthquakes, sudden changes in atmospheric temperatures and erratic rainfall/snowfall patterns.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3790986/
Water Vapor Confirmed as Major Player in Climate Change
11.17.08
The distribution of atmospheric water vapor, a significant greenhouse gas, varies across the globe. During the summer and fall of 2005, this visualization shows that most vapor collects at tropical latitudes, particularly over south Asia, where monsoon thunderstorms swept the gas some 2 miles above the land.
Credit: NASA
Water vapor is known to be Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas, but the extent of its contribution to global warming has been debated. Using recent NASA satellite data, researchers have estimated more precisely than ever the heat-trapping effect of water in the air, validating the role of the gas as a critical component of climate change.
Andrew Dessler and colleagues from Texas A&M University in College Station confirmed that the heat-amplifying effect of water vapor is potent enough to double the climate warming caused by increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
With new observations, the scientists confirmed experimentally what existing climate models had anticipated theoretically. The research team used novel data from the Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) on NASA’s Aqua satellite to measure precisely the humidity throughout the lowest 10 miles of the atmosphere. That information was combined with global observations of shifts in temperature, allowing researchers to build a comprehensive picture of the interplay between water vapor, carbon dioxide, and other atmosphere-warming gases. The NASA-funded research was published recently in the American Geophysical Union's Geophysical Research Letters.
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html
&
Trends in Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
Data are reported as a dry air mole fraction defined as the number of molecules of carbon dioxide divided by the number of all molecules in air, including CO2 itself, after water vapor has been removed. The mole fraction is expressed as parts per million (ppm). Example: 0.000400 is expressed as 400 ppm.
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/global.html#global
Climate and Earth’s Energy Budget The Earth’s climate is a solar powered system. Globally, over the course of the year, the Earth system—land surfaces, oceans, and atmosphere—absorbs an average of about 240 watts of solar power per square meter (one watt is one joule of energy every second). The absorbed sunlight drives photosynthesis, fuels evaporation, melts snow and ice, and warms the Earth system.
The Sun doesn’t heat the Earth evenly. Because the Earth is a sphere, the Sun heats equatorial regions more than polar regions. The atmosphere and ocean work non-stop to even out solar heating imbalances through evaporation of surface water, convection, rainfall, winds, and ocean circulation. This coupled atmosphere and ocean circulation is known as Earth’s heat engine.
The climate’s heat engine must not only redistribute solar heat from the equator toward the poles, but also from the Earth’s surface and lower atmosphere back to space. Otherwise, Earth would endlessly heat up. Earth’s temperature doesn’t infinitely rise because the surface and the atmosphere are simultaneously radiating heat to space. This net flow of energy into and out of the Earth system is Earth’s energy budget.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance
and i must inquire Tychos, did NASA and NOAA get their maths wrong here? ffs go kick a dog or something ....
so anymore stupid attacks you want to feign authority with?
smhtemperature in Anchorage Alaska was in the 40s the other day, while a town in Utah hit -34 degrees F. yup, sounds normal. move along folks, nothing unusual going on here...
M
moose eater
I'd like to make a 'dad comment' re. civility and more.
When we post in a condescending manner, invoking a tone that stops short of saying, "You fucking idiot." but implies it, and it's not all on one side or the other in this and other threads, we create an atmosphere where not only does discussion NOT occur in a positive way beyond that point, but an antagonistic atmosphere of envy, dislike, hate, fear of being looked upon as ignorant, and more thrives. In essence, we become willing participants to all or most of what is wrong with our political and social realities here.
I don't know everything. I try to state when I don't know something for sure, when I do know something for sure, to leave room for the facts, that there are things I think I know, but don't, and there are things I know, and may not realize it. The essence of perspective provided by the 'Johari Window.'
All y'all are better than that.
And in the real political realm of activism, I can hate with the best of them. But you all may need something from each other one day. You may not know it yet, though.
When we post in a condescending manner, invoking a tone that stops short of saying, "You fucking idiot." but implies it, and it's not all on one side or the other in this and other threads, we create an atmosphere where not only does discussion NOT occur in a positive way beyond that point, but an antagonistic atmosphere of envy, dislike, hate, fear of being looked upon as ignorant, and more thrives. In essence, we become willing participants to all or most of what is wrong with our political and social realities here.
I don't know everything. I try to state when I don't know something for sure, when I do know something for sure, to leave room for the facts, that there are things I think I know, but don't, and there are things I know, and may not realize it. The essence of perspective provided by the 'Johari Window.'
All y'all are better than that.
And in the real political realm of activism, I can hate with the best of them. But you all may need something from each other one day. You may not know it yet, though.
coconutcurry
High
And the next smoke grenades - the first link you posted reports exactly about the same like the article I posted (https://phys.org/news/2015-08-solar-decliningwhat.html), but less extensive, because there is no word of the actual status of sunspots. It explains that there is generally a connection between the sunspots and the sun's activity and this can have an influence on earth and climate and that is all.
You highlight:
" They show that the Sun’s output fluctuates during each 11-year sunspot cycle, changing by about 0.1 percent between maximums (1980 and 1990) and minimums (1987 and 1997)"
Yes, we already know. And I already posted links which explain, that the sun's status right now should let to a cooling instead of a warming.
Your article don't tell us how many sunspots are there right now and what is the influence of the sun right now. You simply ignore this. And because of this, I call this link a 'smoke grenade'. It confuses people. I consider this as a misleading information on purpose.
And because for you one article is not enough, here some more articles I googled within a minute:
Solar cycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle#Cycle_25
The current solar cycle began on 4 January 2008,[19] with minimal activity until early 2010.[20][21] It is on track to have the lowest recorded sunspot activity since accurate records began in 1750.
Solar Minimum is Coming
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/news-articles/solar-minimum-is-coming
The sun is heading toward solar minimum now. Sunspot counts were relatively high in 2014, and now they are sliding toward a low point expected in 2019-2020.
The Chill of Solar Minimum
https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/09/27/the-chill-of-solar-minimum/
“We see a cooling trend,” says Martin Mlynczak of NASA’s Langley Research Center. “High above Earth’s surface, near the edge of space, our atmosphere is losing heat energy. If current trends continue, it could soon set a Space Age record for cold.”
So it is obviously you didn't read my article or didn't understand or you don't want to understand. Of cause the suns activity is varying. But right now the sun's status should lead to a COOLING effect. Not warming. So once again. We start from the beginnning, I already posted:
Sun & climate: moving in opposite directions
https://skepticalscience.com/solar-a...al-warming.htm
Your second link produces a 404 error and the text is about the same issue. The suns varying sunspots and no information about the actual status of the sun.
Your third link (Water Vapor Confirmed as Major Player in Climate Change) is about the warming effect of humidity. Nobody ever said CO2 is the ONLY reason for warming. There are also some other gases and yes, also humidity causes a warming effect.
And this should be proof humidity is responsible and not CO2? This is twisting facts, because you ignore WHY there is a higher humidity. There is a higher humidity now, due to the greenhouse effect. We all know, that warm air can take up more humidity. And the greenhouse effect, warms up the air and humidity rises, too. The greenhouse effect starts a vicious circle. Another vicious circle is the melting perma-frost soil in Siberia, where huge amounts of Methan are set free. And Methan is even worse than CO2. Another vicious circle. And the reason for all this is the greenhouse effect caused by CO2 released by humans.
And the last article you linked - I don't beliebe it lol - describes the greenhouse effect, which you deny, very accurate. Your own link:
The Natural Greenhouse Effect
Just as the major atmospheric gases (oxygen and nitrogen) are transparent to incoming sunlight, they are also transparent to outgoing thermal infrared. However, water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and other trace gases are opaque to many wavelengths of thermal infrared energy.
Your own article describes this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenhouse-effect-t2.svg
I already posted before.
So and now I will end feeding the troll right here.
Why I think you are a troll? Because the greenhouse effect is generally acknowledged among scientists and you want to tell us, that you are the genius, the Albert Einstein who knows better than all other scientists. And you simply ignore facts or bring them out of context. You throw 'smoke grenades' which confuses many people who don't have the time and energy to read all this.
An example: Among scientists it's also acknowledged that the pyramids were build about 4600 years ago by the Egypt. When you google for this, you will find many people who want to tell you anything else. The pyramids are older and the aliens built it. They simply ignore all other facts. They ignore the whole context. They ignore that thousands of archaeologists excavated thousands of tombs over centuries and excavated endless artifacts. Someone like you will find scratches on the stones of the pyramid, and in follow you would present a highly accurate geological examination of the scratches, which is so sophisticated and complicated, that many people will be impressed. And then someone says: This scratches are proof for the spaceships which landed on the pyramids.
The geological examination is absolutely correct and impressive, but the theory, the hypothesis, the context and the conclusion are nonsense.
And you throw in here one 'smoke grenade' after the next, 'proving you know better' and keeping people busy with this shit for years. And yes, this is trolling.
And if it's about pyramids I can laugh about it. But climate change is something different.
whateva.
so now greenhouse effect leads to cooling. right. check. got it.
how is it the greenhouse works without the sun?
i posted everything you posted throughout this thread already and my conclusion has been from the start that cooling will be our future, not global warming.
the sun controls what direction the climate takes and it alone makes that happen.
not your swelling pride at having pointed out what i've said done or posted.
don't believe me? go back and read it all.
the current state of the sun is the reason i believe what i do. and i follow it DAILY.
TY WindMap: https://www.windy.com
Earth WindMap: https://earth.nullschool.net
SDO: https://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/data/
Helioviewer: https://www.helioviewer.org/
SOHO: https://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/data/The...
STEREO: https://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/i...
GOES Satellites: https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsd...
you've ignored or disregarded the many technical papers posted by me validating the electrodynamic component the sun contributes to earths energy balance.
i've pointed out the current state of solar output is the reason the climate will become
colder not hotter.
there is no runaway feedback loop because of "glass ceiling", the warmth we enjoy now is because we're in an interglacial period.
earths system varies in regard to solar output, now, in the past, and will in the future. we happen to live in an opportune moment to be able to thrive because of the sun, but the glacial periods will return, many say soon, and that will be much worse than any warming we could experience.
Copernicus and Galileo and others were wrong too, right?
gotta go deliver, but i'll return.
so now greenhouse effect leads to cooling. right. check. got it.
how is it the greenhouse works without the sun?
i posted everything you posted throughout this thread already and my conclusion has been from the start that cooling will be our future, not global warming.
the sun controls what direction the climate takes and it alone makes that happen.
not your swelling pride at having pointed out what i've said done or posted.
don't believe me? go back and read it all.
the current state of the sun is the reason i believe what i do. and i follow it DAILY.
TY WindMap: https://www.windy.com
Earth WindMap: https://earth.nullschool.net
SDO: https://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/data/
Helioviewer: https://www.helioviewer.org/
SOHO: https://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/data/The...
STEREO: https://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/i...
GOES Satellites: https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsd...
you've ignored or disregarded the many technical papers posted by me validating the electrodynamic component the sun contributes to earths energy balance.
i've pointed out the current state of solar output is the reason the climate will become
colder not hotter.
there is no runaway feedback loop because of "glass ceiling", the warmth we enjoy now is because we're in an interglacial period.
earths system varies in regard to solar output, now, in the past, and will in the future. we happen to live in an opportune moment to be able to thrive because of the sun, but the glacial periods will return, many say soon, and that will be much worse than any warming we could experience.
Copernicus and Galileo and others were wrong too, right?
gotta go deliver, but i'll return.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
You used to work for the cigarette companies right?
"Scientists are not in agreement" type stuff? Try adding CLIMATE in front of that statement and you'll find 100% agreement.
"Scientists are not in agreement" type stuff? Try adding CLIMATE in front of that statement and you'll find 100% agreement.
coconutcurry
High
Even the very first words are trolling. Neither I, nor the scientists in my links claimed this. You start again twisting facts. Throwing smoke grenades.
-Greenhouse-effect leads to warming
-And the sun's activity right now leads to a cooling, but the effect is much weaker and not sufficient to compensate the warming.
Well, and because you let me repeat this the third or fourth time, although I presented a couple of reliable scientific sources for this - yes, this is trolling. And I will not feed you any more. I will not read you post more than this first few words. Because either you do it on purpose (trolling) or you really can't understand. In both cases it is impossible to discuss with someone like you.
When people really want to believe your crap, I can't help them. If someone really wants to believe pyramids were built by aliens, or there is no greenhouse-effect there is no discussion possible. This gets insane. For example you let me repeat the same stuff again and again.
It is not possible to discuss believes. And that is what it is: Believes and no scientific.
Have fun keep on trolling. I seriously hope some less people will feed you in future.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
coconutcurry
High
You was faster than me! Thank you.
Climate crisis: 11,000 scientists warn of ‘untold suffering’
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...sis-11000-scientists-warn-of-untold-suffering
"The statement is published in the journal BioScience on the 40th anniversary of the first world climate conference, which was held in Geneva in 1979. The statement was a collaboration of dozens of scientists and endorsed by further 11,000 from 153 nations. The scientists say the urgent changes needed include ending population growth, leaving fossil fuels in the ground, halting forest destruction and slashing meat eating."
Climate crisis: 11,000 scientists warn of ‘untold suffering’
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...sis-11000-scientists-warn-of-untold-suffering
"The statement is published in the journal BioScience on the 40th anniversary of the first world climate conference, which was held in Geneva in 1979. The statement was a collaboration of dozens of scientists and endorsed by further 11,000 from 153 nations. The scientists say the urgent changes needed include ending population growth, leaving fossil fuels in the ground, halting forest destruction and slashing meat eating."
St. Phatty
Active member
AKA "Economic Dislocation".
The euphemisms barely hint at what they really mean.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
90% of people don't know what Economic Dislocation means. Let alone it's impact.
We're fucked mate and Governments already know it.
Street lights, electricity delivered to homes all day everyday, grocery shopping with an out of season fruit and vegetable section, driving your SUV to work alone everyday will all be memories.
The only thing that will allow us to continue living the Life of Riley, is a technological leap akin to the discovery of fire. And don't count on fusion. It's perpetually 10 years away.
We're fucked mate and Governments already know it.
Street lights, electricity delivered to homes all day everyday, grocery shopping with an out of season fruit and vegetable section, driving your SUV to work alone everyday will all be memories.
The only thing that will allow us to continue living the Life of Riley, is a technological leap akin to the discovery of fire. And don't count on fusion. It's perpetually 10 years away.
Moonjuice5050
Active member
Have you ever seen ice water???
H
hard rain
So what makes you think that you know more than the collected minds of people who actually study this properly? I have a science background but I wouldn't presume I know more than climatologists.
Took me about 2 seconds to find this quote from a nasa article:
"We know subtle changes in Earth’s orbit around the Sun are responsible for the comings and goings of the past ice ages. But the warming we’ve seen over the last few decades is too rapid to be linked to changes in Earth’s orbit, and too large to be caused by solar activity."
and
"According to the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the current scientific consensus is that long and short-term variations in solar activity play only a very small role in Earth’s climate. Warming from increased levels of human-produced greenhouse gases is actually many times stronger than any effects due to recent variations in solar activity."
Couldn't be much clearer than that.
https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2910/what-is-the-suns-role-in-climate-change/
and a couple more;
https://skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...global-warming-is-down-to-the-sun-not-humans/
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kickarse
Active member
11000 scientists, has anyone seen the list of names and occupations of them ?.
there are some good ones among the 11000,
got to wonder how many are actual scientists ?
not that it matters, there would be tens of thousands of real scientists that didn't sign it
Global Con Job is about all it is
there are some good ones among the 11000,
got to wonder how many are actual scientists ?
not that it matters, there would be tens of thousands of real scientists that didn't sign it
Global Con Job is about all it is
coconutcurry
High
And the next troll. Or do you have any proof or sources for your statement? This exactly what I expected:
The scientists are no scientists, if they are scientists they are not reliable, they are paid ... blah blah. There is the same (bigger) number of scientists who claim the opposite blah blah...
Can you offer more than your fantasies?
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
You mean like the 2 or 3 anti climate change hobby scientists? Of course it matters. Look them up. I'm sure big business and their think tanks will scour the list for a few with DUIs, tax evasion and even a few who slept with their PHD students and cheated on their wives.
Keep this in mind. Scientists have given the human race EVERYTHING that is good. Clean water, medicine, agriculture that feeds us, all your technology, everything. And now you say they're lying? Politicians have given us what? NOTHING. They just grab power and rule over us. To think that politicians and big business payed off all scientists, so we could be drained of money fixing the climate is so counter intuitive, it's laughable. Politicians are even trying to muzzle scientists. Big business ridicules them. Where's the collusion? If big business and the government politicians they own tell you it's fake you take them at their word? Really?
Hell, HALF the animal species on earth are disappearing. That doesn't scare you. That doesn't tell you anything? Once you look around with an honest eye, it's easy to discern the truth. Hell, it'll infuriate you.
But it's time to take a serious look at the world around you and know that you're not alone. We share your fears about change because it isn't going to be easy, and at this point far from graceful.
What is the qualification to be a scientist? - is it just a matter of believing in science? - or do you have to be teaching or preaching it?
If its believing in it - or some of it - then just like a Buddhist believing in Buddha - do you become a scientist by believing in science? - if so - then everyone must be a scientist -
If its believing in it - or some of it - then just like a Buddhist believing in Buddha - do you become a scientist by believing in science? - if so - then everyone must be a scientist -
