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Growroom Electricity and Wiring
- Thread starter Phillthy
- Start date
Your "protection points" aren't going to be much help considering that they are rated for 400% of the maximum current that the downstream devices will safely carry.
As I mentioned up above, the code does allow the use of a 50a breaker for warehouse lighting, but there are rigid stipulations to use the exclusion. The stipulations for using that level of protection include: the fixture must hang directly below the receptacle; the cord cannot be more than 18" long; the cord must be made by the same manufacturer as the fixture and it has to be listed (tested and certified) for this application; the cord must be visible over it's entire length.
If that describes your installation, cool. If not, then you will not be code compliant and potentially liable for anything that results from the installation.
I guess I don't follow...
My intend is to set on the wall about 3' near the incoming 200a service panel. I plan on having a stove plug 50a or 60a coming from panel. Controller right beside that with all the ballast right beside that. I can make them all fit with 18" cords if need be. The lights on the other hand are all at least 10'-35' away coming from a powerbox flip (10ballast 20 lights).
Now, I guess I am not looking for perfect code by all means. But will it work.... and be OK.... and not loose sleep over?
I mean they sell an item...it should work...made in the USA, well at least they state that....or I heard that somewhere.
My intend is to set on the wall about 3' near the incoming 200a service panel. I plan on having a stove plug 50a or 60a coming from panel. Controller right beside that with all the ballast right beside that. I can make them all fit with 18" cords if need be. The lights on the other hand are all at least 10'-35' away coming from a powerbox flip (10ballast 20 lights).
Now, I guess I am not looking for perfect code by all means. But will it work.... and be OK.... and not loose sleep over?
I mean they sell an item...it should work...made in the USA, well at least they state that....or I heard that somewhere.
Oh, it will definitely work. The issue is when something goes wrong - there is no protection at the level required. All of the receptacles, cordsets, wiring, etc. are all rated for 15 amps. You will be feeding them with 50, and there is nothing that will limit the current to the appropriate level. At the bottom of page 4 on the bottom left side, it says not to exceed 15a on individual outlets. The problem is that when you have a short, the current will rise to whatever level the protection is, and that level will be 50a. An instantaneous dead short would probably trip the breaker with minimal damage - a long, slow partial ground will not....
The stipulations in the code that allow this are for integral fixtures (no remote hoods/lamps), with a power cord no more than 18" long, the fixture hanging directly under the receptacle that is feeding it, and the cord/fixture has to be tested and certified (listed) for this application. In order to be code compliant, the installation has to meet ALL of these conditions.
The fact that they are sold means nothing - it is up to the installer to insure that the product is appropriate for the usage that it will be put to. I'm sure that if you look at the documentation closely, they absolve themselves from any liability associated with the installation or use of their equipment. The CSA standard that they are certified to is for industrial equipment. It also says that it conforms to UL standard 1640, which is applicable to: Exhibition halls; Temporary installations in construction sites; Television and movie production studios; Carnivals, fairs and similar locations; Theaters and television studios where audiences are present.
The stipulations in the code that allow this are for integral fixtures (no remote hoods/lamps), with a power cord no more than 18" long, the fixture hanging directly under the receptacle that is feeding it, and the cord/fixture has to be tested and certified (listed) for this application. In order to be code compliant, the installation has to meet ALL of these conditions.
The fact that they are sold means nothing - it is up to the installer to insure that the product is appropriate for the usage that it will be put to. I'm sure that if you look at the documentation closely, they absolve themselves from any liability associated with the installation or use of their equipment. The CSA standard that they are certified to is for industrial equipment. It also says that it conforms to UL standard 1640, which is applicable to: Exhibition halls; Temporary installations in construction sites; Television and movie production studios; Carnivals, fairs and similar locations; Theaters and television studios where audiences are present.
Shit Rives, you got me all worried now.
I've never had a short and I try to play it real safe as I can with checking and researching first (one of the stops is here to you for electrical).
What I don't understand is I am only plugging in about 5amps per plug, way below the 15a rating (I understand things shoot up when turned on) Isn't there some sort of distribution of the 50a incoming vs loaded on one circuit? If that is what you are saying?
If we are worried about someones craftsmanship than....At one point from the time we get up till we go to bed we are in the hands of someone else craftsmanship.
I've never had a short and I try to play it real safe as I can with checking and researching first (one of the stops is here to you for electrical).
What I don't understand is I am only plugging in about 5amps per plug, way below the 15a rating (I understand things shoot up when turned on) Isn't there some sort of distribution of the 50a incoming vs loaded on one circuit? If that is what you are saying?
If we are worried about someones craftsmanship than....At one point from the time we get up till we go to bed we are in the hands of someone else craftsmanship.
Rives, thanx for saying the same thing I've been trying to tell people. Find a trustworthy electrician and have them build your lighting controller. The guys at [email protected] will build you a compliant, safe, and very reliable lighting controller, up to 400A@Three-Phase or Single-Phase.
I don't need that much if you were referring to me.
I am not a warehouse grow just a garage grow in Maine. Very legal. Luckily there is no local ordinance saying what I need to have or not...yet.
The Powerbox must be safe enough to do what I need done. I haven't heard enough bad things happening to the powerbox company.
When and if I become more commercial with the legalizing of marijuana than I will/probably have one built.
The amperage is determined by the impedance (resistance) in a circuit. When everything is normal and healthy, the impedance will keep the current flow at the nameplate rating, which in your case is apparently 5 amps. When something goes wrong, like you drop a piece of metal on a cord and it shorts across the conductors, or a ballast dies in a shorted mode, or a receptacle has a loose connection and starts getting carbon tracking, etc, etc. then the impedance in the circuit drops to virtually nothing and the current goes through the roof. "Short" means that the power is bypassing the device that it is supposed to be going to and takes the shortest path to either ground or the return leg. At that point, the ONLY thing in the circuit that limits the current flow is the upstream fuse or circuit breaker. If you have a 60a breaker protecting a 15a wire, shit is probably going to get real ugly before the breaker decides to trip.
The protection is in place for when things go wrong - the rest of the time you could happily run directly off of the utility.
As far as craftsmanship goes, PowerBox looks like decent gear. The problem is in the design, and the cost-cutting that they have done to stay competitive in a market that demands taking short cuts because all of the competition is doing it. Yes, people get away with it for long periods of time, and that is because most electrical gear is amazingly reliable. When it stops being reliable is when you NEED the device to be designed properly.
HVAC Guy is a knowledgeable electrician and I've seen numerous pictures of the work that he has done. Neither of us are trying to mislead you.
I don't doubt that you guys know your stuff.
What makes home built stuff any better in the workings you explained in the last post? I am going to see if I can open the box up. I will report back.
All right not sure if I am suppose to post inside of this box but I figured it is mine so why not.
I did not touch anything in this box as is.
The only thing I can see is that each of the 240volt plugs are not grounded like my home built one is. Why, I do not know?
Maybe it is grounded somewhere else in the chain of mess.
But I am not looking to tear this box apart but trying to ease my mind on a fire hazard when I plug it in.
I did not touch anything in this box as is.
The only thing I can see is that each of the 240volt plugs are not grounded like my home built one is. Why, I do not know?
Maybe it is grounded somewhere else in the chain of mess.
But I am not looking to tear this box apart but trying to ease my mind on a fire hazard when I plug it in.
Attachments
They are probably grounded through the backstrap coming into contact with the front panel. Not the most foolproof method considering that the panel is painted or powder-coated, and if the fasteners that hold the receptacle in place loosen, then the ground is lost.
Three-Phase Lighting Controller
Three-Phase Lighting Controller
This Three-Phase panel for 30 x 1000W ballasts, costs $4000 and is safe, reliable, and code compliant, pay a little more and get quality built by an industrial electrician. It has the following built in;
SIEMENS LOGO PLC
RANCO ETC111000 High Temp Shut Offs
Three Ammeters/Voltage Meters
15 Hot Start Delay
Ballast Power Off/On Delays (2 Ballasts at a time)
Smoke/CO Detector
Push Reset for High Temp, Smoke, or CO Alarm
Green Indicator Light for Everything Operating
Red Indicator Light for Trouble (Flashes different Rates To Indicate Problem)
Extra Spaces To Add Breakers for Air Conditioners
Three-Phase Lighting Controller
This Three-Phase panel for 30 x 1000W ballasts, costs $4000 and is safe, reliable, and code compliant, pay a little more and get quality built by an industrial electrician. It has the following built in;
SIEMENS LOGO PLC
RANCO ETC111000 High Temp Shut Offs
Three Ammeters/Voltage Meters
15 Hot Start Delay
Ballast Power Off/On Delays (2 Ballasts at a time)
Smoke/CO Detector
Push Reset for High Temp, Smoke, or CO Alarm
Green Indicator Light for Everything Operating
Red Indicator Light for Trouble (Flashes different Rates To Indicate Problem)
Extra Spaces To Add Breakers for Air Conditioners
Attachments
Last edited:
junior_grower
Active member
Actually illegal in most jurisdictions. I would add a ground wire. Scary looking "commercial" product. is it ULC sticker-ed? No way it passed.
junior_grower
Active member
Very nice and super clean. That Plc is a nice touch. You made this one?
Opening a Panel and seeing care and attention puts every inspector at ease. Open a messy panel and they crawl through everything and usually find problems.
Nice panel Hvac guy. If I wanted to light half the town you'da man to call..but like I said it is for a small grow and need to know if it will suit my needs.
As of now I have chosen this manufactured route this time and can not upgrade at this point till after a few harvests. BUT it will be one of the first things to go.
Where would this be sticker ed if it is UL listed?
As of now I have chosen this manufactured route this time and can not upgrade at this point till after a few harvests. BUT it will be one of the first things to go.
Where would this be sticker ed if it is UL listed?
I will keep you in mind when and if I become commercial.
Till then PowerBox it is....cross my fingers. Thank god I have a detached garage.
