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Growroom Electricity and Wiring
- Thread starter Phillthy
- Start date
First, if the existing cooktop is currently fused at 30a, it is very unlikely that the cooktop wiring is rated to handle 50a. If there is a problem in the cooktop, it's going to get the full 50 amps.
Second, what do you mean by "splitting" the 240v? That would normally mean splitting it into the two 120v legs that make up the 240v circuit, and that won't work here. I think that that you are talking about paralleling the loads, where they would both be fed by the same circuit. If you do this, each of the (6) 240v receptacles (and the plugs, cordsets, etc) would all have to be rated for the full 50a. This would mean the equivalent of a range cord and receptacle for each ballast, which would be both expensive and unwieldy as hell.
The breaker needs to be sized to the lightest-rated component in the circuit - if you use parts (receptacle, plug, cord) that are rated for 15 or 20 amps, then the breaker needs to be sized accordingly. If you have room in the conduit, the safest and most flexible approach would be to set a small sub-panel to feed your ballasts and pull an appropriate feeder into the conduit. That way you can break your circuit protection down to the correct levels.
Antrim
Member
Wow! Thanks for the response. I guess my thinking was way off. I thought this project was going to be easy too. I'll probably have to run new conduit but thats not that much of a problem.
Just to be clear. Your saying that I can run 4 wires (two hots, a neutral and a ground) from a dedicated circuit to a sub panel in the grow room (about 50ft). Then break it down into 6 different 20A breakers, one for each 240v outlet? If so, what size circuit would you suggest feeding the sub panel off of?
Just to be clear. Your saying that I can run 4 wires (two hots, a neutral and a ground) from a dedicated circuit to a sub panel in the grow room (about 50ft). Then break it down into 6 different 20A breakers, one for each 240v outlet? If so, what size circuit would you suggest feeding the sub panel off of?
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You wouldn't necessarily need 6 breakers, and 15's could easily handle a couple of lights each. With the ballast operational current, a 1k light will pull +/-1100 watts. This is 4.6 amps at 240v, and you need to stay under 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads (12 amps for a 15a breaker or 16a for a 20 amp breaker). My preference is to keep the breaker size close to the size of the load so that it reacts more quickly if something gets ugly. Total load for the lighting alone works out to 28 amps if you use the 1100 watt figure, so you would need a minimum of a 40a circuit to stay under the 80% rule. If I were doing it, I would probably run a 50a - 60a feed to have some flexibility in the future and run some other gear. With the circuit you described feeding a sub, you would have the option of adding some single-pole breakers and taking care of your 120v needs out of the same panel.
Hey Rives , I see that the fuse holder for the range is cracked off at the corner right near the main lug . Could this be a culprit for arching ? I think so . Can you see in the pic , sorry it is upside down . If I rotate and swap the fuse holder I can get the cracked part away from any connections until I can source a new part .
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I got a dilemma and need a sparky's advice.
I have a home built flip box for 5 ballast/10 lights. Working great thanks to Rives.
I am transitioning to a different location for the flip box and have cut the ends of the lighting cords to hard wire into flip box...custom length.
In order to extend the light cords I will either have to buy new 25+feet each cord set or splice on an extension wire.....
question if I want to splice on a longer wire (about 15-20') can I just put them all in a junction box or would they have to be separate junction box for each light?
I know SO wire but since the total length will be up to 30-35' would I want to use 14g or can I get away with 16g since the first half (connected to the light bulb) is 16g?
I have a home built flip box for 5 ballast/10 lights. Working great thanks to Rives.
I am transitioning to a different location for the flip box and have cut the ends of the lighting cords to hard wire into flip box...custom length.
In order to extend the light cords I will either have to buy new 25+feet each cord set or splice on an extension wire.....
question if I want to splice on a longer wire (about 15-20') can I just put them all in a junction box or would they have to be separate junction box for each light?
I know SO wire but since the total length will be up to 30-35' would I want to use 14g or can I get away with 16g since the first half (connected to the light bulb) is 16g?
Sorry I missed this. I would doubt that the missing corner would cause arcing if the damage is just what is shown. The fuse holder at that point is more of an insulator/flash hider than an arc shield. There would need to be metal in close enough proximity for an arc to jump and ground out, so if it has occurred, there should be visible evidence on the fuse box cover near the fuse holder when closed. If there is damage on the box side where the stationary portion that the fuse holder plugs into, then it could easily be arcing there.
I got a dilemma and need a sparky's advice.
I have a home built flip box for 5 ballast/10 lights. Working great thanks to Rives.
I am transitioning to a different location for the flip box and have cut the ends of the lighting cords to hard wire into flip box...custom length.
In order to extend the light cords I will either have to buy new 25+feet each cord set or splice on an extension wire.....
question if I want to splice on a longer wire (about 15-20') can I just put them all in a junction box or would they have to be separate junction box for each light?
I know SO wire but since the total length will be up to 30-35' would I want to use 14g or can I get away with 16g since the first half (connected to the light bulb) is 16g?
Theoretically they can all go in the same box. The only issue is that the ignition pulse can be several thousand volts & SO cord is rated for 600v (as are wire nuts, tape, etc). The pulse is short enough that it isn't an issue normally, but you might get something strange going on when firing a bunch of them together.
You don't say whether or not you are using magnetic or electronic ballasts, or the lamp technology. Magnetic ballasts that use igniters have maximum distances that they can reliably start a lamp. Electronic ballasts also have maximum distances for the lamp conductors.
Conductor size is another wobbler. You don't state the lamp wattage that you are using, and with high frequency electronic ballasts, large conductors can have too much capacitance and create problems.
Your ballast nameplates should have some information on them. If you are using magnetic ballasts, the igniter should be marked. For electronic ballasts, you may have to go to the manufacturer's specifications for wire length and gauge recommendations.
Thanks Rives.
Yes, sorry they are all 600watters and are fired from a combination of dual lumateks and single lumatek.
I plan on using a powerbox flip so I think I will buy the 14g cord set with the one end that plugs into my flip box and the other end connected to the other cord into a junction box. I need to do 10 of these.
any different technique, joining the two wires? Meaning is any difference than a normal junction box with joining two or three 12/2 wires?
I think I will use separate junction boxes just to be on the safe side.
Yes, sorry they are all 600watters and are fired from a combination of dual lumateks and single lumatek.
I plan on using a powerbox flip so I think I will buy the 14g cord set with the one end that plugs into my flip box and the other end connected to the other cord into a junction box. I need to do 10 of these.
any different technique, joining the two wires? Meaning is any difference than a normal junction box with joining two or three 12/2 wires?
I think I will use separate junction boxes just to be on the safe side.
Shovelhandle
Active member
As far as different splice techniques, you basically have the options of using wire nuts and tape, crimp terminals and tape, or terminal blocks. Terminal blocks are most frequently used in industrial applications because they are usually a more secure connection and allow you to easily test the circuit. However, in this case, the voltage of the ignition pulse would lead me to choose one of the other methods because of the possibility of arcing to ground from a connection point that is designed for a maximum of 600 volts.
Oh?
Having re-read it, I would disagree. Perhaps you could point out what you think is incorrect.
I know I said 14g but this is a good deal;
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1...sRFi-RUAD9QaE3iWTSErcZI3_maRGKUm5kaAhcr8P8HAQ
16g do?
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1...sRFi-RUAD9QaE3iWTSErcZI3_maRGKUm5kaAhcr8P8HAQ
16g do?
Probably.
Check your ballast specifications on their website - they should have recommendations for wire gauge and maximum lengths.
Ok Rives thanks.
Got another question; I have a Power box 12000 light controller. It is the hard wire type (50AMP). Would it be easier to hook up a stove plug to the end of the controller whip and a stove receptacle out of the 200amp panel, than junction box with split bolt connections?
I mean I can do either way but the connection way is such a lot of wrapping....Even though the one I got is the hard wire type can't I put a stove plug on the end of its whip.
http://www.powerboxinc.com/support/dpc15000_instructions.pdf
Got another question; I have a Power box 12000 light controller. It is the hard wire type (50AMP). Would it be easier to hook up a stove plug to the end of the controller whip and a stove receptacle out of the 200amp panel, than junction box with split bolt connections?
I mean I can do either way but the connection way is such a lot of wrapping....Even though the one I got is the hard wire type can't I put a stove plug on the end of its whip.
http://www.powerboxinc.com/support/dpc15000_instructions.pdf
Either way is fine. Split bolts can be a little tricky to tighten properly if you aren't familiar with them, it's easy to either over- or under-tighten them. My preference would probably be the range receptacle and cordset, and yes, it should work with your controller.
One thing for you to be aware of - the PowerBox doesn't appear to have any protection beyond the 60 amp main breaker (pretty common with this class of controllers). These controllers rely on a very specific exclusion in the Electric Code that allows a much larger than normal breaker for HID lighting, but it is intended for warehouse applications and is accompanied by numerous stipulations. The stips ALL have to be met in order to use the exclusion, and they are impossible to meet in virtually every growroom that I've ever seen. The end result is that the installation of these controllers will not meet code and will void your fire insurance.
The receptacles on the cover of the PowerBox are all 15a receptacles. I don't know what size wire is used internally for the interconnections, but can guarantee that it will not hold up to what the 60a main will supply. There is some total bullshit in the instruction sheet that gives dangerous advice ("Section 2.1 - The DPC-12000 and 15000 series can be wired directly to a live buss bar..."). Be careful.
I plan on going the easier of the two routes and do the stove plug and receptacle. I am going to have a total of 4-1000watt ballast and 2-dual 600watters and 1-600watt ballast. I don't have the amps in front of me but "should" reach at least 35amps total. Honestly it will never see 50amps by me.
I was going to put a 60amp breaker in the box...but you are saying the wiring might not be kosher in the controller?
I bought this to be more code friendly vs my home built stuff, which has lasted me well over 6 yrs.
Bottom line is, I got to use it. I bought it and I have no room for playing around. So, plug and play it is.
I was going to put a 60amp breaker in the box...but you are saying the wiring might not be kosher in the controller?
I bought this to be more code friendly vs my home built stuff, which has lasted me well over 6 yrs.
Bottom line is, I got to use it. I bought it and I have no room for playing around. So, plug and play it is.
You could pull the cover and take a look and see if there are any fuses or breakers downstream of the 60a main, but I went through the documentation pretty thoroughly and there is no mention of it that I could find. The way that most of these are built, they have all of the 15a components powered off of the main breaker, which is rated at 60a. If something goes wrong with a ballast, the wiring, a receptacle, or whatever, then the only protection is the 60a breaker. You could probably modify it to put in some appropriate protection (in-line fuses, panel mount fuses or breakers, etc.), but the way that it is most likely built is miles from being code compliant.
Good luck.
Good luck.
