Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[stork]

all good madp. i really appreciate your willingness to take the time.

peas
stork

 

[Trichmate]

What's the input voltage? 750? If so your going to need an xfmr.

I'm going to assume your talking about the secondary side of a ballast and the ignitor. 750v is a fuck load for the primary side.

What kind of bulb are we talking about? Have a link?

A friend had heard good things about 750w hps bulb so we wondered if it goes, and then we would connect to a 750w lumatek electronic ballast.

 

[tokinafaty420]

Is it okay to use a circuit breaker that allows room for more amperage than what is required on your circuit or should you aim to only allow as much or as close to as much as you will need?

Say I have a 20amp 1000w ballast that is being plugged into a circuit by itself. Assume the wiring and receptacle are all perfectly okay and up to safety standards. I heard it would be dangerous to then connect it to say a 30 amp circuit breaker. Your thoughts please.

Of course this is all hypothetical. None of it is occurring right now, however I had a friend who did his own wiring years ago. He had 2x 1000watt HIDS on the same circuit. He used an 8 gauge wire w/ a 50 or 60 amp rated circuit breaker. Nothing bad happened and it is no longer being used, but I am curious still.

 

[clstclandestine]

That's cool, thanks for any input!

 

[burnedout]

Is it okay to use a circuit breaker that allows room for more amperage than what is required on your circuit or should you aim to only allow as much or as close to as much as you will need?

Say I have a 20amp 1000w ballast that is being plugged into a circuit by itself. Assume the wiring and receptacle are all perfectly okay and up to safety standards. I heard it would be dangerous to then connect it to say a 30 amp circuit breaker. Your thoughts please.

Of course this is all hypothetical. None of it is occurring right now, however I had a friend who did his own wiring years ago. He had 2x 1000watt HIDS on the same circuit. He used an 8 gauge wire w/ a 50 or 60 amp rated circuit breaker. Nothing bad happened and it is no longer being used, but I am curious still.

This has been covered many times in the thread. You can run up to 80% of whatever load your circuit is rated for. So if you have a 30 amp circuit, you can run up to 24 amps continually. You can run 3 amps worth of equipment or 10 or 24, as long as you stay below 80%.

 

[tokinafaty420]

This has been covered many times in the thread. You can run up to 80% of whatever load your circuit is rated for. So if you have a 30 amp circuit, you can run up to 24 amps continually. You can run 3 amps worth of equipment or 10 or 24, as long as you stay below 80%.

Thanks for the response. I read through a bunch of the pages, but didn't see the answer to it.

 

[barnyard08]

So you're running the ballast that is setup for 120v on a 240v load. You need to get the 240v power cord.

What did you tell the store when you took back the first ballast? I'm surprised they replaced it since it was your fault and not the equipments.

The thing is the controller has 120 recepticales are 3 prong round and 220 are flat. So the 220 cord won't fit into the controller, I am going to find it on a site and post the link the guy at the shop told me as long as I have a convertable ballast that this unit, is made to work like this. 120 off of 240 meaning I'm running 120 off of 240 I'm not trying to make it seem like you guy's don't know your stuff but, I think that you are missing what I'm trying to say I hope I cleared it up a little better.

Now maybe I missed something so tomorrow I will relook at the instructions but as I recall when installing it it's suppose to preform as I stated.

 

[barnyard08]

I wouldn't mind seeing the controller instructions. If you don't use the optional 240v cord, then the ballast won't be 'wired' for 240v. As burnedout said, I'm pretty sure you applied 240v to a 120v configured ballast and fried it.

Yes, look at page 5 of this sticky please. All NEMA receptacle and plug configurations are listed on that page.

Well, I'm sure it's working just as it should. You don't need to dismantle the controller and put different receptacles in it. Use the optional 240v cord for your ballast and all should be well. I think you've probably misunderstood the instructions for the controller. The controller is made to run 120 off of 240 power source I hoped this cleared this up because I don't quite know how to explain it other then 120 off of 240 and I'm not trying to be a smart a.. but I'm trying to understand why this happened.

Thanks madp I did checkout page 5 and my controller has a 5-15 receptacle.

The controller is made to run 120 off of 240 power source,I hoped tha this cleared this up because I don't quite know how to explain it other then the way I did 120 off of 240 and I'm not trying to be a pest or sound like a smart a.. but I'm trying to figure out if I did something wrong or is it the controller.

 

[burnedout]

barnyard...Check out this link.. http://forums.bghydro.com/showthread.php?t=418
I'm not positive, but I believe the powerhouse ballasts are setup pretty much the same way. You might want to call Hydrofarm and double check.

 

[barnyard08]

barnyard...Check out this link.. http://forums.bghydro.com/showthread.php?t=418
I'm not positive, but I believe the powerhouse ballasts are setup pretty much the same way. You might want to call Hydrofarm and double check.

Thank you my friend thats exactly what I was asking and looking for thats why I Love People on this site . Once again thank you I thought I did something wrong the guy at the shop should have known this.

 

[Rollem&Smokem]

phuck all that madness I'll just peel off a few C notes and pay a electrician to do all that shit and kick back until he's done and it's 1000% guaranteed!!

Make some of my tasty home made fried chicken!!

 

[growshower]

subscribed and k+ for the knowledge

 

[madpenguin]

A friend had heard good things about 750w hps bulb so we wondered if it goes, and then we would connect to a 750w lumatek electronic ballast.

You originally said 750v... Volts. Not Watts...

I thought you were talking about the output voltage/secondary side of a ballast...

Europe runs at 240v nominal. We can run at 240 here in the US too. Just match a 750w bulb with a 750w/240v ballast and your good.

 

[madpenguin]

barnyard...Check out this link.. http://forums.bghydro.com/showthread.php?t=418
I'm not positive, but I believe the powerhouse ballasts are setup pretty much the same way. You might want to call Hydrofarm and double check.

Thanks Burnedout. That what I was trying to say in my other posts but I guess it wasn't quite getting thru. I'm surprised those jokers are using 5-15R's on a 240v controller. I guarantee there have been hundreds upon hundreds of people frying ballasts on that controller.....

If they insist on having a "universal" controller, then they need to have both 5-15R's are 6-15R's. You can sit there all day trying to plug your 120v ballast power cord into a 240v 6-15R.... It just ain't gonna happen, thereby saving many a ballast.

 

[madpenguin]

Is it okay to use a circuit breaker that allows room for more amperage than what is required on your circuit or should you aim to only allow as much or as close to as much as you will need?

Say I have a 20amp 1000w ballast that is being plugged into a circuit by itself. Assume the wiring and receptacle are all perfectly okay and up to safety standards. I heard it would be dangerous to then connect it to say a 30 amp circuit breaker. Your thoughts please.

Of course this is all hypothetical. None of it is occurring right now, however I had a friend who did his own wiring years ago. He had 2x 1000watt HIDS on the same circuit. He used an 8 gauge wire w/ a 50 or 60 amp rated circuit breaker. Nothing bad happened and it is no longer being used, but I am curious still.

Yea, this has been covered quite a bit. Your friend had a potentially dangerous setup. #8 copper is only rated to handle 40A worth of current. Please see table 310.16 that is posted somewhere in this thread for wire ampacity.

If you have a 20A circuit breaker that uses #12 gauge copper wire, then using a 30A breaker could cause a fire. The breaker is there to protect the wire. #12 is only rated for 20A. That's why you use a 20A breaker on #12 wire. Anything larger then you could pull 29A down 20A rated wire. The wire heats up like mad, the insulation breaks down and melts/burns off and then you've either got a fire, or if your lucky, you'll just have a short or fault and the 30A breaker will trip because of that....

The VERY first post on the VERY first page has wire gauge and it's ampacity ratings.

 

[madpenguin]

I'm backin up.

wow, great info on this thread, thanks to all those experienced sparkys out there! i have read this entire thread and either i have missed one little detail that is bugging me, or maybe it wasn't totally covered.

this is what i am doing: i have a 30 amp dryer plug and i removed the plug and hooked up another run of wire to the existing. the existing is 10/3 wire (it has a red, black, white and ground wire). so i bought some 10/3 wire and wire nutted it to the existing, covered the box with a blank plate and then hooked the gray box up to the new wire. i wired the black to one side of the timer, the red to the other side and hooked the white to the neutral part of the timer and the ground to the ground screw. i then split the 240 to two 120 duplex receptacles (using the neutral wire)....

so i have been using two 1k HPS lights (on 120 volts) on this for nearly 3 years and it works fine.

Yep. You've got a multiwire branch circuit there. They do work well.

now! i want to add another 1k HPS, but want to go up to 240 because it is only a 30 amp breaker.... so i was going to get some 30A receptacles and hopefully hook up 2 duplexes to the timer, if i can find them... if not, i will hook up three single 30A receptacles.

so, my question is this... do i still need to keep the white (neutral) wire hooked up from the dryer plug box to the timer? won't i just run a 10 gauge wire from the two hot legs (red and black) and the ground and pigtail that to the receptacles?

i'm not an electrician and the whole neutral wire thing confuses me!

thanks in advance!
stork

If you still want to run your 120v ballasts, then leave everything as it is. If your just buying one more 1kw ballast only one that runs at 240v that you want to throw into the fray, then leave the neutral alone and just use the red and black wires. Buy a 6-15R receptacle that has the flat blades. Hook the red up to one side and the black up to the other side. Using a 6-15R will prevent you from pluging one of your 120v ballasts into it and frying it.

You should have a total of 22A with your 2 - 120v 1kw'ers and your new 240v 1kw'er... Your still below the continuous load rating of a 30A circuit (24A)...

As far as getting the 30A receptacles.... I wouldn't worry about it. Just make sure you use the "spec grade 20A receptacles". The NEC says your receptacles have to be rated the same as the wire and breaker but if you insist on using 30A receptacles, you'll probably have to snip the manufactured male plugs of your ballasts and rewire them with a 30A plug so it'll mate with your new 30A receptacle.

If I can find a 30A rated receptacle that still mates with a TV cord plug then I'll retract that statement but as far as I'm aware, any 30A rated receptacles I'm aware of are rather large, such as your typical dryer receptacle.

So.... Yes... Just run 10/2 to a 6-15R receptacle. The black to the black in the WH40. The white of the 10/2 to the red in the WH40. wrap some black or red electrical tape around the white wire at both ends.

You can still keep your 2 - 120's and add a 240 is what I'm saying. If you wanted to ditch the 2 -120's and use 3 new 240's.... Then your only going to be drawing around 15A and the neutral will be used for nothing.

 

[madpenguin]

Location is the Kitchen Pantry.

Current electrical input is a light socket I plan on converting to receptacles which is on a 15A circuit shared by two hallway lights and the bathroom which has a two bulb vanity...no hair dryer or high amp draws. Change all four bulbs to 36w florescents and that would cut the amperage draw there to 1.3A. That leaves me with approximately 10.7A of load I can still pull from the current circuit.

Your on the right track. Sounds good so far. Just watch all your loads and make sure they don't exceed 12A if they run 3 hours or more.

Lighting=1-600watt Lumatek "flower" dimmable ballast purchased
1-400watt Lumatek "veg" Horitlux blue purchased??? Is it possible to run the 400watt bulb with the 600W lumatek ballast dimmed to 400W?

As well as being multi-voltage they are multi-wattage as well, so I would say yes. Altho, I wounder what happens when you have a 400w bulb in your hood with the dial on 600w.....

2 supersun 2 air-cooled hoods purchased

Ventilation=fan for air-cooled hoods, 1 intake, 1 scrubber/exhaust fan, 2 circulation
136cfm fantech centrifugal

Look at all the nameplates and spec sheets for all your equipment and add up all the amperage. Don't use ohms law on a "400w" bulb and just assume it will draw 3.33A.... Stay under 12A and you'll be good.

 

[madpenguin]

Last one.... I think I'm caught up...

Pumps 396 ecoplus times 3 1 cloner/veg,2 areo-nft
eco air8 for the resevoirs and mother DWC buckets

Fantech is purchased. Purchased equipment to date and one more 600watt lumatek provided I am able to run one of them at 400W pulling 3.36A. I guess I could run them both at 400watts and that would free up some amperage but I was hoping to flower under 600w. I purchased a 600w ballast to have the added lumen capabilty when an upgrade is possible....Depending on the bulb and the dimming question the next ballast purchased might be a 400w??

Running 400w veg and 600w flower I will pull 10.36 and I would still need to run intake, scrubber and circulation fans which puts me over an 80% draw on a 15A circuit.

Go to 400w veg and flower and that would cut me to 9.56A before adding supplementry fan equipment. Thats cutting it pretty tight! Am I missing anything??

Is it safe to pull all 12A from the same recepticle using surge protectors and a fuse protected contoller such as a Green air ct dh 3p?

I'd recommend against doing that with the surge protector. It'll catch on fire eventually. Just a matter of when. Go back a couple pages and look at the Frankenstein extension cord I made. I know it ain't pretty but try to do something like that. Use a 20A receptacle in the ceiling after you pull the light fixture off and make something like what I did. Use all #12 along with spec grade receptacles and you won't have to worry about anything (unless you exceed 12A).

I live in 2bedroom upper duplex I rent and plan on moving on within the next year or so I can't hack the place up too bad but I am more than comfortable fixing any cut outs and such in order to restore the apartment to previous condition when I pack up. I've been here for 3 yrs and no I won't get any visits from the landlord unless I ask for one so I am good there.

I'm in the same exact situation. Only I've rewired the entire freaking unit... As long as you old work everything then chances are, the landlord will never know you did anything unless he is extremely familiar with the house.

Running a dedicated circuit from the main panel is pretty much a non option

Well, see my previous comment. It's always an option.

Options, There is a 20amp circuit on the other side of the kitchen that has plenty of open amperage. Then there is the 240 circuit for the stove? It would be much cheaper to run the lighting off of that and I would'nt miss the stove.

Is there a safe way to create a junction" forgive me if my terminoligy is incorrect. I am trying to be as specific as possible, I am quite anal! lol" from either of those points with the circuit terminating either in the grow room itself or in the attic above it? Keep in mind I am trying to stay fairly stealthy.

Let me know what you guys think I have as options? Braistorm for me and see what I can do to configuer this properly. Thanks again for all of the knowledge!

Well... Your options are numerous. Don't know if I'd mess around with the stove. You can but.... I wouldn't... Tap off that 20A circuit and run a line right above the grow room in the attic.

This is probably what I would do....

Get up in the attic above the light fixture. Fish a 14/2 from the light fixture down into the one of the walls of your grow room. "Old work it". I've got a post on this sticky about old working circuits. Do the same thing with the 20A circuit in the kitchen only use 12/2 if it's truely a 20A circuit. Run that line down into the same wall cavity as the 14/2. Use a double gang old work box. Fish the 14/2 in one side and the 12/2 in the other side. Hook the 14/2 up to a regular blue backed cooper 49 cent receptacle. Hook the 12/2 up to a spec grade 20A receptacle. It will have the little horizontal slash in one of the plug inserts.

So now you have a double gang box that looks really nice and part of the house with 2 receptacles in it.

Make 2 of those industrial looking extension cords I posted a couple pages back and hook your equipment into those.

When you move. Leave all the old working crap you did but take the "extension cords" with you. I know that takes time and money for materials, especially when your going to leave it, but fuck it. Just bite the bullet and do it. You'll have all premise wiring that's not overloaded and then you'll have some glorified extension cords plugged into that to power your equipment. Bout as safe as you can get really. Just don't damage the extension cords laying on the floor. You could jump up and down on the gang boxes but the extension cords are the vulnerable part...

If there is anything you don't understand or need clarifying, just ask. I can try to walk you through it more. Especially with regards to "old working" new wire to where you need it.

 

[madpenguin]

BTW, I'm waiting on the final parts for a flip/flop tutorial. Me being the anal bastard that I am; I'm sparing no expense. Custom dremeled enclosure with flush mount DSM&T receptacles. 120v flush mount 5-15R slave receptacle to link another unit to.... 30A disconnect switch on the front with a green indicator light to show if the relay has power. A custom Mad Penguin Inc Logo on the front (my avatar picture).....

I'm out of work and have way to much time on my hands. It will be a step by step walk thru. Pictures and all. I'll even try to make a top of the line model and a "budget" model....

I'll give a run down on the complete parts list, where they can be had and how much they cost.

 

[Trichmate]

You originally said 750v... Volts. Not Watts...

I thought you were talking about the output voltage/secondary side of a ballast...

Europe runs at 240v nominal. We can run at 240 here in the US too. Just match a 750w bulb with a 750w/240v ballast and your good.

Thanks mate ,sorry for v-w.