Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[madpenguin]

Could I run a MWBC like you explained and then have my line out off terminals 2 and 4 going to two recepticles, these would be timed, and then split the two hots as you said with one going to one recepticle and one going to the other?

That's correct.

And then have a second line out that would be wired to terminals 1 and 3, the incoming lines to the timer, that would then also go to two recepticles with the two hots split between the two recepticles as well.

Yes, that's correct as well if your talking about your always hot receptacles. However, it's better to wire nut and pass straight through than to overburden the terminals with lots of thick wire.

I guess you could do the same thing with pigtails as well.

Yep. That's how I'll explain it below.

Pigtail both the incoming hots so that you have one pigtail from each hot going to the incoming terminals on the timer and the other one just flowing through to recepticles.

Yep. The always hot receptacles.

I think both ways would work safely. Am I right?

Eh... Go with the wirenut/pigtail method. Yes, if the terminals will accommodate multiple #12 solid wire safely then I suppose so, but pigtail anyway. It's about the most solid and safest way to make an electrical connection as long as you do it right.

Basically, as far as the timer and main panel goes, the circuit would be seen as 240v. But it would be split between the recepticles and be 120v.

Yep. As long as you terminated the red and black conductors to a double pole breaker ( each wire originating from a separate hot buss bar). Don't get the idea of using 2 single pole breakers one on top of the other tho. You have to be able to kill both conductors with one handle throw.

I think that would be safe and possible and it would also balance the loads I think. I also think that would work so that two recepticles are timed and two are constant.

Hallelujah♪♪ Hallelujah♫ Hallelujah♪

What I don't get with a set up like this is how to determine wire size and breaker size. I guess essentially it is a 240v circuit, but the appliances would be running on 120v...so would you size everything according to the amp draw for a 240v circuit then? Or for a 120v circuit?

They are one and the same. A 240v circuit will trip at 20A just as a 120v circuit will trip at 20A. What your doing is allocating 10A for the timed red wire and 10A for the timed black wire. Now, remember, that only leaves you with 6A for your always hot receptacles. No dehumidifier or AC unit. Should be plenty tho for fans, sump pumps and air pumps.

The breaker will essentially see a 240v load even tho everything is at 120v. Just because it appears to be a 240v circuit to the panel (if everything is exactally balanced out), that doesn't mean you can draw "double the amps". Your still working with 2 individual 120v circuits.

edit: I just noticed that the out going line on the timer wiring diagram is only 2 wire. I, or anyone else, would have to use three wire, like the incoming line, for the outgoing lines as well to keep the nuetral.

Yep. You've just made the last 10 pages of frustration all worth while. Finally, someone who can read!!!!!

I believe if you wire nutted the incoming nuetral and the outgoing nuetrals together with a pigtail going to the nuetral terminal on the timer then everything would work fine.

Yep. You got it.

Am I understanding all of this correctly or is my logic ass backwards? If I have this right then this will probably be my last question.

For those of you who may need a more detailed walk through, I actually wrote one before I even fully read mr-naturals78's post... I just assumed.... And wound up getting served as it were. So here it goes:


I'm going to be really basic and go step by step. I'm not trying to insult anyone, I just want to make sure everything is understood and done correctly.

Let me replace that diagram with something a little easier to look at. I can't stand it when people cross lines on wiring schematics instead of using a half circle. I've just color coded it some:

Don't let those "supposed" arrows fool you. Those are the contacts or switches that will close when the timer reaches your set point. In other words, they will "extend" to meet the posts coming from terminals #1 and #3, thereby completing the circuit and supplying power to terminals #2 and #4. Right now, the diagram is showing the timer in an "off" position.

Your clock motor runs off 120v, so it has a neutral going to it. Terminal #A should be isolated from the frame of the box. Please make sure I'm correct on this. Setting atop a black piece of plastic or something so it doesn't touch the metal frame. For that matter, all terminals should be isolated from the frame except the ground.

I'm also going to assume that the clock is pre-wired to terminals #A and #3.... Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

To the far left where it says Line 1 and Line 2 plus the Neutral. That is your incoming 12/3.

Here is what you want to do if you want 2 timed 120v receptacles and 2 always hot 120v receptacles. As soon as your 12/3 feed enters the timer, strip it. Leave yourself about 6" or so of wire, maybe more. I don't know how big that thing is and how much room you have inside it but we'll need to do some splices. If you have too much wire, snip some off. Make sure atleat 1/4" or 3/8" of outer sheathing enters the timer. It needs to be secured with NM cable clamps or if your using conduit, then the correct fittings for that. There has to be standard knockouts on that timer to run cable or conduit through.

Cut an entire piece of 12/3 off the roll that is about 6" long. remove the outer sheathing to get the individual conductors. These will be our pigtails. Keep the bare ground as well (or use one of those green insulated grounding leads I pictured earlier). You'll need 2 separate 12/3 wires coming in the opposite side. One for the timed receptacles, and one for the always hot receptacles.

So we have the main 12/3 feeder coming in and also 2 separate 12/3's for our load out wires..... You'll need some red wire nuts.

First terminate your grounds as it's good practice. The incoming 12/3 ground, both grounds from the 12/3's and your 6" pigtail. Put all the ends together so they are even and wire nut the hell out of them till your hands hurt. If you back the wire nut completely off and they are not twisted together very well then you should manually twist them together with linemans pliers. Then put the wire nut back on. Terminate your (only) free pigtail to the grounding terminal in the timer.

Do the same exact thing with every color wire only leave one of the out-going 12/3's alone. Bend that entire stripped cable around the front side of the timer box to temporarily get it out of your way.

Wire nut the incoming 12/3 black with the other 12/3 out going black along with a black pig tail. Wire nut them very good. Terminate the black pigtail to terminal #1.

Wire nut the incoming 12/3 red with the other 12/3 out going red along with a red pig tail. Wire nut them very good. Terminate the red pigtail to terminal #3.

Wire nut the incoming 12/3 white with BOTH 12/3 out going white wires along with a white pig tail. Wire nut them very good. Your doing the same thing here that you did with the grounds. Terminate the white pigtail to terminal #A. It is IMPERATIVE that the neutrals be evenly twisted around one another for atleast 3 turns. This is a MWBC and the neutral cannot come loose.

wire nutting 4 #12's together should hurt the hell out of your hands when your done. If it doesn't, then your not twisting it long enough.

After that, you should just have a black and red conductor from one of the out going 12/3's. The one that you bent back out of the way.

Terminate the black wire to terminal #2 and terminate the red to terminal #4. This cable will feed your timed receptacles.

The other outgoing 12/3 will feed your always hot receptacles.

I think that takes care of the timer box unless I've missed something.

I think I've also described how to terminate the MWBC to 2 separate receptacles in the gang boxes as well. Just make sure you pig tail the neutrals everywhere. If your feeding a bank of 4 handy boxes all connected together, then don't daisy chain your neutral from receptacle to receptacle.

Keep both outgoing 12/3 neutrals separated in the gang boxes. The always hot cable, make 2 white pigtails to wire nut to the incoming neutral and only terminate those to the always hot receptacles.

The 12/3 cable that feeds the timed receptacles, take 2 white pigtails and wire nut them to the timed incoming neutral. One pig tail to each receptacle. 2 incoming neutrals, 2 pigtails on each. keep em' separated or you'll create a parallel return path for current with one or both banks of receptacles.

Hope I didn't loose anyone there. mr-natural78 said the same thing only in less words.

Remember, this timer is rated for 40A. Need more power? Do the same proceedure only use 10/3 on a 30A double pole breaker and use 30A rated receptacles.

If you want to try and max it out, use 8/3 on a 40A breaker along with 50A rated receptacles (they don't make 40A rated receptacles).

If you can get your hands on an ammeter (ampmeter), the clamp on type, clamp it around the neutral wire in your panel when everything is at full load. If you've evenly balanced the load between both always hot receptacles, you'll see 0 amps worth of current making it back to the panel. Well, should be under an amp anyway. MWBC's are really neat in that way and serve their purpose well.

 

[madpenguin]

I think it is much safer now that my lights aren't drawing through a 16g extention cord.

Dude... That was insane. You got lucky. You also wised up and ditched it before your house did burn down.

I have a crusade to get people to stop using extension cords all together. Doesn't matter if it's 12/2 "heavy duty". All those plugs and connection points.... Each one is a potential point of failure.

Extension cords are for temporary use only. No exceptions.

 

[madpenguin]

Here is a place to order from if you can't find an electrical supply house for some reason. I've ordered a crap load of CAT5E keystone jacks and plates from them before. They are reputable.

http://www.onestopbuy.com/Appliance-Receptacles-12159.asp

There is decent range of receptacles on that page.

BTW, It's been so long since I've actually seen a 5-30R that I'm not entirely sure you can insert a standard plug into it. Don't get mad at me if they wind up being the size of a dryer receptacle. They sure look like it. Your best bet is to find a local electrical supply house. They will have them. Then, you should be able to tell right away whether it will work before you buy it.

If they are too big, then I wouldn't bother with cutting plugs of your ballast cords, altho you could certainly do that if it made you feel better. The spec grade 20A receptacles you are using _should_ be good enough considering each ballast will only draw 10A at normal operation. It's just that if something internal goes wrong with the ballast, it could surge and start to draw way more power than what it's spec'ed to do. That's when there is a chance of the 20A receptacles melting/burning up at the contacts.

It's not likely to happen, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[mr-natural78]

Good deal. Thanks for you help MP. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[MBA]

MP or SJ, What would you do? I;m pulling a 60a sub panel 35' with 6/3 romex from a main 200a main panel. Going to be running a 5000 btu window a/c, 8"HO can fan w/ can filter 50, 40p/d dehumidifyer, 6" can pulling thru air cooled hood, cirriculating fans all on 110v. I will have 1-600w HPS now and may add another latter. I know it's not cheaper,to operate, but since I have the option should I wire the lights w/ 220? If I ran 120v I could still run 2 600w off of one 20a circuit, correct? Any advantages to running 220-110? How would you wire this all up SAFLEY? What would be the best type of timer to use for the light/s?

 

[madpenguin]

MP or SJ, What would you do? I;m pulling a 60a sub panel 35' with 6/3 romex from a main 200a main panel. Going to be running a 5000 btu window a/c, 8"HO can fan w/ can filter 50, 40p/d dehumidifyer, 6" can pulling thru air cooled hood, cirriculating fans all on 110v. I will have 1-600w HPS now and may add another latter. I know it's not cheaper,to operate, but since I have the option should I wire the lights w/ 220? If I ran 120v I could still run 2 600w off of one 20a circuit, correct? Any advantages to running 220-110? How would you wire this all up SAFLEY? What would be the best type of timer to use for the light/s?

The AC should draw around 5 amp. The rest of the fans and stuff shouldn't add up to more than 10A or so. A 600w at 120v will draw around 5A.... You could probably squeeze 3 600w lights on a 20A circuit but I'd need to know the manufactures specs before I could say so for sure.

Sounds like 60A will give you more than enough.

I would probably do the same thing that mr-nautural did as far as the lights go. Mount your subpanel and terminate it properly. Use a 20A double pole breaker with 12/3 wire that goes into a 30A intermatic mechanical timer box.. Feed 2 spec grade 20A receptacles on the load out terminals of the timer box.. The red wire on one receptacle and the black wire on the other receptacle. Use a 4" square box or 2 handy boxes ganged together with nm connectors to house the receptacles. Make 2 white pigtails and wire nut them to the neutral in your receptacle box. One pigtail to each receptacle.

Plug one 600w into each receptacle. Or if you just wanted to use single receptacles instead of the duplex kind, use a 15A double pole breaker with 14/3 wire. That will be enough to accommodate 2 600w lights and by using the simplex single receptacles, will gurantee that that circuit is only used for your lights. You could even write "lights" with a black sharpie above the receptacles on the gang box.

If you have a 200A service and are going to run a 60A sub, then it doesn't really matter whether you run at 240 or 120.

 

[MBA]

Thanks, Madpenquin, I think I'll run the lights with the cooling fan (138w) off of one curciut, so that fan will cut off with lights out. I knew after reading 22 pages of this thread, if I was doing something STUPID!, you would certainly tell me. THANKS again for helping us try to do it SAFE!

 

[madpenguin]

As long as you have a dedicated 15A circuit, then yea, you should be alright with 2 600w's and a fan for air cooling. In fact, I do the same thing in my bloom room only it happens to be a 20A #12 circuit. 2 600's a 748CFM fan drawing air in from outside cooling the lights plus a light rail all on the same circuit.

I use two of those cheap "see them every where" digital timers. The 2 600's are on one timer and the fan and light rail are on another timer but they are on the same circuit.

Keep meaning to clamp my ammmeter around the hot in the panel but I'm probably drawing 14-15A on that circuit which is maxed out for a 20A run.

Just try not to exceed 12A. I suppose you could squeak by with 12.5 to 13A max but no more if it's a new romex dedicated 15A run.

 

[MBA]

I'm definitely running #12 wire, so I'll use a 20A breaker. Right?

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, use 12/2 romex on a 20A single pole breaker if it's all 120v loads. You could use a 15A breaker if you wanted. That's safe. But if you need upwards to 16A, then yes, use a 20A breaker.

Are you still going to run a subpanel or did you decide to just run one 20A circuit from the main panel?

If your just going to ditch the subpanel and do one homerun out of the main panel, and you have the extra money to buy 12/3 and not just 12/2, It might be worth your while to buy a roll of 12/3 romex and a double pole 20A breaker. Hook both the red and black wires up to the double pole 20A breaker and then run the 12/3 all the way to your grow room.

If you have an accessible attic above your grow room, then run the 12/3 into a junction box. Cap the red wire, and then splice 12/2 onto the remaining wires for your new 20A circuit.

If, in the future, you find out you need more power, you have 20 more amps on that red wire in the junction box right next to your grow room just waiting to be used.

In that case, you'd tie the new 12/2 black onto the 12/3 red and then splice/wirenut the neutral and grounds together with the other previous 12/2.

Food for thought.... As you guys can tell, I'm a big fan of MWBC's. Just make sure you wire nut all neutrals really good and never daisy chain them.

Technically, you can only use a MWBC in locations that are NOT listed under the AFCI requirements that I posted back quite a few pages. AFCI breakers don't work when you share a neutral. These are one of the things I choose to overlook in my own house, just like tamper resistant receptacles. I have no kids, so I'm not too stressed about tamper resistant receptacles.

AFCI's are a good invention, but we've been doing without them for quite some time with no ill effect for the most part. Basically, all AFCI's will do is tell you if you've stapled a wire too much during the install because it'll trip. Then you've got to go back and find the pinched wire/short and fix it. Just my biased opinion of course. Most will disagree with me as to their importance. They can and will save lives by preventing your house from burning down during an arc fault situation.

 

[MBA]

Still going with the sub, you never know what the future brings! You know, I read somewhere last night, can't remember where. But I think it was from Lumatek, They said that dual voltage ballasts 120/240 were not as efficent as a 240v ballast. That their ballast were designed for 240v and and anything else was a trade off. They even said that light was brighter and produced less heat at 240v.Kind of confused me!

found it: http://www.igrowhydro.com/InfoSheets/InfoSheet-Lumatek.pdfhttp://www.igrowhydro.com/InfoSheets/InfoSheet-Lumatek.pdf

 

[madpenguin]

There is some truth to that but take it with a grain of salt.

I was at Lowes yesterday and spent an hour walking the isles and putting together a list of things you would need in order to do this top notch.

I'll list the parts and costs now. Next time I go to lowes, I'll take my digital camera and snap pictures of everything and then modify this post to include pictures.

I won't buy all the crap and then assemble it so as to make a "proper" tutorial just because I can't afford it, but I'll go into enough detail that most anyone should be able to figure it out.

Parts List: (All can be had at Lowes)
====================

1 - 125A Main Lug Only Siemens loadcenter 4 spaces (4/8) #E0408ML11255U = $15.32
2 - 20A Double Pole Siemens Breaker at 10.25 a piece = $20.50
4 - Handy boxes (3 knockouts on each side) $.87 a piece = $3.48
2 - Handy box duplex cover at .59 a piece = $1.18
2 - Handy box simplex covers at .77 a piece = $1.54
1 - Ground bar kit (4 space) for QO Homeline panel = $3.79
1 - "6/2 & 8/2 Gauge" 4 wire Range Cord = $19.47
4 - NM metal cable clamps at .38 a piece = $1.52
1 - 25 pack of Red wire nuts = $2.69
1 - 25 pack of Blue wire nuts = $2.59
----------
You'll need a main breaker for the 200A main panel to feed the sub. Depends on what brand main panel you have:
1 - 50A Double Pole Siemens Breaker = $10.25
1 - 50A Double Pole QO Breaker = $15.47
1 - 50A Double Pole Cuttler Hammer Breaker = $9.47
----------
? - 6/3 NM-B Romex = $2.32 per foot
1 - T104R Intermatic Mechanical Timer DPST = $69.00
1 - NEMA 14-50R Receptacle 4 prong 50A = $11.97
2 - 3/4" NM metal Connector for both ends of 6/3 at .87 a piece = $.1.74
1 - 3/4" PVC Grey electrical conduit (10 feet stick) = $1.05
2 - 3/4" PVC Male Adapter at .38 a piece = $.76
5 - 3/4" PVC conduit clamps for wall (5 piece bag) = $1.08
----------
These may be redundant. Trying to remember why I wrote both down:
2 - 3/4" PVC conduit locknut for male adapter at .46 a piece = $.92
2 - 3/4" PVC insulated plastic bushing at .27 a piece = $.54
----------
2 - 20A 240v simplex single receptacles at 5.24 a piece = $10.48
2 - 20A 120v spec grade duplex receptacles at 3.29 a piece = $6.58

If you want a plug-n-play subpanel, then stick with the 50A DP main breaker that feeds the 6/3 run in your main panel. You will be terminating the 6/3 to the NEMA 14-50R wall mount receptacle and that's only rated for 50A. It's a range receptacle.

The range cord (50A) will be terminated to your portable subpanel and then plug into the NEMA 14-50R to fire it up. The plug will also serve as a local disconnecting means.

The Siemens 125A loadcenter will accommodate 2 handy boxes on either side quite nicely for a total of 4 handy boxes that are affixed directly to the sub panel. You could probably even squeeze one on the bottom of it.

I listed 2 - 240v 20A single receptacles above. That's if your running your lights at 240v. Otherwise, get the 120v 20A simplex single receptacles. Still feed them as a MWBC with a 20A double pole breaker in the sub using 12/3 wire. Say... The left 2 handy boxes.

Do the same thing with the right 2 handy boxes, only make those duplex receptacles fed with 12/3 on a DP 20A breaker (MWBC). Those will be for fans, pumps and what not.

I took the load center out of the box and looked at it. You can remove 2 screws and the internal guts of the panel will completely lift out. Drill 2 more holes further down so you can re-mount the entire assembly lower to the bottom of the panel. Ah shit..... That will make your cover knock outs not align up with where the breakers will be installed. Nevermind. You could still probably mount a 30A relay up top without modifying the panel guts. It might be tight but I think it'll still fit.

If you went with the relay (which lowes does not have), you could ditch the Intermatic timer and just use one of those "see them everywhere" digital timers that you could plug into one of your duplex receptacles.

Then go buy a 16/3 SJO cord (from Lowes) to plug into the timer and route the loose wire end through a nm connector back into the panel. Hook those wires up to the center contact of the relay coil. The wires coming off the 20A DP breaker that feeds your lights would terminate to the line side of the relay and then take more wire from the load side of the relay to feed your timed light simplex receptacles.

That would save you the money of having to buy the Intermatic.

Eh... I'm going to stop there. The conduit was just to protect/sleeve the 6/3 run coming down the outside of a wall. If that setup intrigues anyone, I'd be happy to go into further detail if you have any questions.

Remove the cost of the 69.00 intermatic timer and replace it with a 9.99 digital timer, one more nm connector, a 16/3 SJO cord and a 30A relay. You would save 10-20 bucks plus everything would fit inside your sub panel and you wouldn't have this rather large intermatic timer that would have to be separate from the sub.

Actually, My harvest is coming up in about 2 weeks. I think I'll go buy all that crap once I offload, make a step by step tutorial with pictures on how to assemble it, and then return everything when I'm done. God bless Lowes and their return policy.... ;-)

EDIT - As an afterthought, the MWBC/Double pole idea in a localized plug-n-play subpanel is kinda stupid. Not really a need for them. That load center has 4 spaces. I'd use all single pole breakers. Atleast for the lights. And if you wanted to try and squeeze more receptacles/circuits on the outside of the sub panel, you could use tandem breakers in the other 2 slots. That would give you a total of 6 circuits instead of 4..... Or actually, I'd probably still use a double pole MWBC for the relay and lights but slap 2 tandems on the other slots. That or one single pole and one tandem. Just depends on how many circuits you want.

 

[MBA]

Mad, You are SICK, you must love your craft, I wish we shopped at the same LOWES!
The plug/play sounds cool, but I plan on staying here. My main panel is a 200A Homeline, I'm thinking 60A,or 50A double pole feeding the 6/3w/g ROMEX to a Homeline 70A Sub terminating just outside the room. Then pulling my 20A circuts from there. I dout I'll ever have more than 30A connected.( 2-600's=10. a/c=5, dehuey=5,2-fans=3 other stuff=5 maybe) Just thought it would be nice to have it avaliable if I needed, it for future use. Thats why I ask about running the lights on 220V, since I have the option. I did read your tutorial about wiring the sub panel, I'm sure I can make it happen. Still not sure what kind of timer to go with, those little cheap thing look kinda "WELL CHEAP" I'll probably go with The Intermatic to power two recepticle and plug the lights and cooling fans there. Thanks again for all your help!

 

[madpenguin]

Still not sure what kind of timer to go with, those little cheap thing look kinda "WELL CHEAP" I'll probably go with The Intermatic to power two recepticle and plug the lights and cooling fans there. Thanks again for all your help!

Those timers are cheap. Every hydroshop and online store has the same one. What they do is just put a hydrofarm or BGH sticker on the front of them and sort of claim them as their own.

I've been through quite a few in the past 2 years. Usually one of the receptacles will stop working or something.

But if you use a 30A relay and just use the cheap timer to trigger the center contacts, the 9.99 timer never see's any load at all. It's the relay that see's the load of the lights.

Many ways to hook it up.

 

[rooted]

hey guys

been busy lately but things are settling down now, for a week or two at least

penguin first i have to thank you again for all the help you gave me setting up that sub, wouldn't have done it as confiidently, if at all, without your guidance



for the most part it went smoothly, i managed to zap myself on a hot relay, but nothing has melted, sparked, or blown up yet...........

....but......now i'm having timer issues.......

here's a quick rundown of the setup/problem

each relay is triggered by it's own in-wall 120v timer
each relay is inside it's own 6x6x4" box with small ground bar
each timer has it's own 15a breaker in the sub
each relay has it's own DP 15a breaker in the sub
(2) 1k lights per relay

^nothing new just retyping so you dont have to go back looking at my other posts


each timer is wired as specified in instructions:
one hot goes from 15a breaker to timer
a seperate hot goes from timer to relay coil
neutral from sub, and timer neutral, join at the relay
ground terminates at ground bar

ballasts light just fine, as far as i can tell the 240 circuits are solid, and the problem lies within the timers

i have a 120v GFCI outlet for my exhaust fan, and it hasn't given me any problems, nor has the interruptor reset on that outlet for any reason (20a)

i'm stumped

the timers are resetting, and i just can't figure out why, it's driving me nuts

the breakers aren't tripping, but the timers are resetting instantly when the relay is triggered

but when i trigger them manually, they light up just fine...

on the first day, timer A/relay A fired properly, then 5 minutes later when timer B fired, it reset timer A and turned off that relay, however timer B/relay B stayed lit just fine!

then i reversed order and tried timer B first....this actually lit timer B, as well as timer A, and also froze timer A, while lighting relay A.....wtf!!!?!?!?

to further confusion, i re-wired so both relays would trigger from one timer (assuming that the two timers were fucking each other up somehow)
this caused the one timer to reset as soon as it triggered both relays, shutting them off instantly

sorry for the long winded post (to anyone + everyone that reads it ), i can't imagine how annoying it must be to even jump into this shitstorm...but i'm about to scrap the bottom end of this and either:
a) wire the outlets right to the breakers, and kick out $$ for 240 outlet timers, or
b) throw a 30a timer in between the sub and those outlets....

i have to bring this to a conclusion that i feel is safe, getting ridiculous now i've been tinkering with this for weeks now

or

c) i wired these timers wrong and i'm a complete nut

so....in advance, thanks, sorry, either way



PS i can throw up pics and photoshop label the wires if needed, or draw out a wire diagram (it will be a shitty amateur one haha)

 

[mr-natural78]

Just in case anyone is interested. Home Depot has the intermatic timers on sale. It's the cheapest I could find them. I got mine, the T101R, which is 120v single pole single throw with a raintight outdoor case for $35 bucks. They were sold out of the T101 at my home depot, but it was like $20 bucks. It is also 120v single pole single throw but the case isn't raintight. They also had the T103 and T103R as well. Both those are double pole single throw. They were like $30 bucks as well.

 

[madpenguin]

Just in case anyone is interested. Home Depot has the intermatic timers on sale. It's the cheapest I could find them. I got mine, the T101R, which is 120v single pole single throw with a raintight outdoor case for $35 bucks. They were sold out of the T101 at my home depot, but it was like $20 bucks. It is also 120v single pole single throw but the case isn't raintight. They also had the T103 and T103R as well. Both those are double pole single throw. They were like $30 bucks as well.

Yea, I really need to start hitting Home Depot. The only reason I go to Lowes is because it's pretty much right around the corner. HD usually tends to sell stuff for much cheaper. Good lookin' out.

 

[madpenguin]

PS i can throw up pics and photoshop label the wires if needed, or draw out a wire diagram (it will be a shitty amateur one haha)

Yea, sounds like you've mis-wired something. Can't say for sure until I see some high res pics. That's a crux with trouble shooting electricity... You really need to be there in order to figure out whats going on most of the time.

I could speculate, but without pictures of everything, I could speculate for a few pages until we found the problem.

I'm not sure what type of timers you are using to boot. The el' cheapo 120v ones that are re-branded like I was talking about above?

 

[rooted]

timers i used:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

shitstorm hitting the shitfan, plants are stressing, this is very frustrating......

last night the lights came on just fine!, for whatever reason the timers didn't reset...wtf...but this morning, woke up to lights on/fans off. the timers now refuse to "un-trigger" the relays at their programmed "off time", even though the clock times are still correct and programmed times still in place.



i will get pics this evening

i'm going to have a room full of hermies if this isn't resolved tonight, so for now i will be rewiring the lights to a mechanical timer (40a) that's fed from a DP30a breaker in the sub, $$$ down the drain


will post ASAP with pics/diagram

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, I'm getting ready for the family xmas eve shin dig so won't be around til later tonite. Xmas with the girlie tomorrow too. I'll try to help asap.

Never used those wall timers. I want to say your problem lies with those. Especially since they are made by GE...