Gorilla Glue #4 - Part II

[NEED 4 SEED]

I'm using Azos. You can use any that use N fixing bacteria. I would recommend anyone starting to use these start slow. Do not use the powder when doing a up pot.

If these are living organisms, how long can you store them and how?
We don't even have products like this over here.

 

[dank.frank]

https://plantlet.org/nitrogen-fixation-root-nodule-formation/

Bacterial Nitrogen Fixation

• Convert N2 gas to NH4 ammonium.
• Symbiotic N2 fixing bacteria live in the plant root nodules (anaerobic) in poor N2 conditions.
• Bacteria (e.g. leguminous, Rhizobia – symbiotic, cyanobacteria – free living) give plants with fixed N2 ad plants give bacteria with nutrients and carbs.

Nodules provide anaerobic conditions by

• Low gas permeability
• Leghemoglobin

Plant gives

• Nodule, nutrients.
• Globin part of leghemoglobin – oxygen transport.

Bacteria gives

• Fixed N2 via Nitrogenase enzyme.
• Heme part of hemoglobin.

Nitrogenase reaction
12 + 8 Fdred + 8 H+ + 10 ATP 2NH3 + H2 + 16 ADP + 16 Pi
By redox reaction in Fe protein and reducing MoFe (iron-molybdenun) protein.

Non Symbiotic Nitrogen Fixation Diazotrophe
Microorganisms will pass independent life and fix atmospheric nitrogen are known as free living diazotrophs. There are two groups of such microorganisms: bacteria and cyanobacteria (blue-green algae). Based on the mode of nutrition (carbon, nitrogen and oxygen and requirement of reducing groups) bacteria are divided into:

• Aerobic bacteria: Azoromas, Azotobacter Beijerinckia, Mycobacteriin, Methylomonas.
• Facultative anaerobic bacteria: Bacillus, Enterobacter, Klebsiella, etc.
• Anaerobic bacteria: Clostridium.
• Photosynthetic bacteria: Rhodomicrobium, Rhodopseudomonas Rhodospintim, Chromium, Chlorobium etc.

Among cyanobcteria both heterocystous and non-heterocystous forms fix atmospheric nitrogen, for example, Anabaena, Anabaenopsis, Aulosira, Calothrix, Cylindrospermum, Gloeocapsa, Lyngbya, Nostoc, Oscillatoria, Plectonema, Scytonema, Stegonema, Tolypothrix, Trichodesmium etc.. (Alexander, 1977).

Nitrogenase Enzyme
Nitrogenase is the enzyme complex responsible for nitrogen fixation. This has been characterized as two components, and neither is active without the other.

• Component I is dinitrogenase. It is known as MoFe protein.
• Component II is dinitrogenase reductase, known as Fe protein.

Nitrogenase is extremely sensitive to oxygen, requiring low oxygen tension for activity. This fixation of nitrogen needs not only nitrogenasc, but also ATP, reduced ferredoxin.

Leghemoglobin

(also leghaemoglobin or legoglobin) is a nitrogen or oxygen carrier, because naturally occurring oxygen and nitrogen interact similarly with this protein; and a hemoprotein found in the nitrogen-fixing root nodules of leguminous plants. It is produced by legumes in response to the tools being infected by nitrogen-fixing bacteria, termed Rhizobia, as part of the symbiotic interaction between plant and bacterium; roots uninfected with Rhizobium do not synthesize leghemoglobin.

Leghemoglobin has close chemical and structural similarities to hemoglobin, and, like hemoglobin, is red in color. The holoprotein (protein + heme cofactor) is widely believed to be a product of both plant and the bacterium in which the apoprotein is produced by the plant and the heme (an iron atom bound in a porphyrin ring) is produced by the bacterium. There is some evidence however suggesting that the heme moiety is also produced by the plant.

In plants infected with Rhizobium, (such as alfalfa or soybeans), the presence of oxygen in the root nodules would reduce the activity of the oxygen-sensitive nitrogenase – an enzyme responsible for the fixation of atmospheric nitrogen. Leghemoglobin (buffers the concentration of free oxygen in the cytoplasm of infected plant cells to ensure the proper function of root nodules.

Leghemoglobin has a high affinity for oxygen, about ten times higher than the chain of human hemoglobin. This allows an oxygen concentration that is low enough to allow nitrogenase to function but high enough so that it can provide the bacteria with oxygen for respiration.

Although leghemoglobin was once thought to provide a buffer for nodule oxygen, recent studies indicate that it stores only enough oxygen to support nodule respiration for a few seconds. its function is to help provide oxygen to the respiring symbiotic bacterial cells in a manner analogous to hemoglobin transporting oxygen to respiring tissues in animals.

Nitrogen fixation in nodules

• One of the most important mutualistic relationships between microorganisms and plants involves the invasion of the roots of suitable host plants by nitrogen fixing bacteria resulting in formation on tumor like growth called a nodule.
• Within the nodule, the nitrogen fixing bacteria are able to convert atmospheric nitrogen to ammonia which supplies the nitrogen required for bacterial and plant growth.
• The fixation of nitrogen in plant nodules is of extreme importance for the maintenance of soil fertility in agricultural practices, it is used to increase crop yields.
• The fixation of atmospheric nitrogen depends on the nitrogenase enzyme system.
• Nitrogenase is very sensitive to oxygen and irreversibly inactivated on exposure to even low concentration. Nitrogen fixation, therefore, often is restricted to habitats in which nitrogenase is protected from exposure to molecular oxygen.

Nitrogen fixing associations between Rhizobia and Legumes

• The nitrogen-fixing associations of rhizobia with leguminous plants are of great importance both in global nitrogen cycling and in agriculture.
• Until recently, all nodulating and nitrogen fixing bacteria associated with leguminous plants were placed into a single genus, Rhizobium.
• Now two ore additional genera, Azorhizobium and Bradyrhizobium, are recognized.
• Rhizobiun species are fast growing whereas Bradyrhizobium grow slowly (brady means slow).
• Bradyrhizobium species nodulate soybeans, lupins, cowpeas, and various tropical leguminous plants.
• Rhizobium species nodulate alfalfa, peas, clover, and a wide variety of other leguminous plants.
• Azorhizobium is a unique member of the group that forms stem nodules on tropical leguminous trees (Sesbania rostrata).
• In contrast to members of the two other genera, Azorhizobium is capable of growing with atmospheric nitrogen in its free living state. Rhizobium und Bradyrhizobium are not capable of doing so.

Azobacter, for example, is a genus of free living bacteria that converts atmospheric nitrogen into ammonium, making it available for plant use. This process may only take place, however, if the following conditions are met:

• An easily degradable carbon source is available.
• Any nitrogen compounds such as ammonium er nitrate, are not already in present substantial concentrations.
• Soil pH levels are between 6 and 9.
• High levels of phosphorus are present.
• Very low levels of oxygen are present.

So unless you are applying something that actually forms a symbiosis with the plant or in the last instance a bacteria that can has fixation ability in it's natural state, given...

Very low levels of oxygen present. Not exactly the description of an ideal cannabis environment.

I'm not denying your results, Hammer, you're a great grower, we all know that, I'm questioning causation, is all. Only because what I understand about nitrogen fixation, had led me to believe we wouldn't see any such benefit from their application to cannabis.



dank.Frank

 

[olday]

Water only. Organic. She gets color. Even when temps don't drop below 68 degrees. When she fades, when fully ripe, upon having truly entered senescence, she will give of some purples/magenta/reds. I think most strains I've ran tend to do that. It almost seems more common than strains that just go flat yellow. Maybe it's the just because I tend to grow a lot of blueberry or purple hybrids.

View Image

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Pictures from Phillthy to make the point. She has it in her.



dank.Frank

And they look fantastic

 

[dank.frank]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6698789/

"Azospirillum brasilense, Gluconacetobacter diazotrophicus, Burkholderia ambifaria, and Herbaspirillum seropedicae"

For those curious, this is what is recommended in the article.

The more I'm reading, as long as there is enough carbon source for the continuation of the bacteria azos, it can theoretically exist in the rhizosphere, independent of any symbiosis with roots, which makes it some what unique.

Interesting. I know you're not a hack Hammer and I'm certainly not being confrontational, I'm just looking at the data behind what you are saying is all. Things change. I'll investigate more.



dank.Frank

 

[Hammerhead]

Why don’t you use any during an up pot?

I sprinkle Azos and Myco Jordan on the roots/rootball during every up pot. I don’t go crazy with them tho. Just a really light dusting.

I do but not in powder form. Its mixed with RO before use.. Plants Ive put down a dusting in the hole all developed lockout. Im assuming I screwed up the PH when I did that. When using premixed Ive never had the issue. Its not the 1st time I've had weird shit happen with no explanation. I have to make my best guess what happened.

If these are living organisms, how long can you store them and how?
We don't even have products like this over here.

There just like all microbes. Comes in a powder.

Why don’t you use any during an up pot?

I sprinkle Azos and Myco Jordan on the roots/rootball during every up pot. I don’t go crazy with them tho. Just a really light dusting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6698789/

"Azospirillum brasilense, Gluconacetobacter diazotrophicus, Burkholderia ambifaria, and Herbaspirillum seropedicae"

For those curious, this is what is recommended in the article.

The more I'm reading, as long as there is enough carbon source for the continuation of the bacteria azos, it can theoretically exist in the rhizosphere, independent of any symbiosis with roots, which makes it some what unique.

Interesting. I know you're not a hack Hammer and I'm certainly not being confrontational, I'm just looking at the data behind what you are saying is all. Things change. I'll investigate more.
dank.Frank

I've learned long ago without testing ideas we wont learn. Even if what we've read contradicts those ideas, if im interested I will test it. Finding material to read is the hard part. There's def a difference using Azos vs not. I have no clue if theres some N in Azos?. Whatever is going on the Chlorophyll production is increased. All plants get a much richer darker green color with its use. My medium is promix hp which doesn't have a pre charge just microbes. I also use more microbes during veg. Using legumes plants near around Cannabis is beneficial. Another test I want to do would be to use clover plants as a ground cover in my pots without using azos.

 

[dank.frank]

To be completely honest, I had been assuming the last couple years, the extremely dark green leaves was you playing with the photo via contrast/saturation, etc.

LOL.



dank.Frank

 

[Hammerhead]

No just a bit of contrast/expose fix. I don't mess with colors. I take all my pics in total darkness I have to fix the lighting., Some plants def got a bit to much. Getting the dosages right has been the hardest part. Even the same strain some plants take in more than others. I cant seem to find a balance.

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

While the idea is not bad of using any supplements in a commercial grow, what do you think about using them in breeding programs? Wouldn't be the outcome plants that can't live without the stuff after a few generations?

 

[Dirtyeyeball]

I got one for ya
All these micro this and micro that additives weren’t out 15yrs ago. This stuff was invented for the guys who went into their local grow shops looking for a “quick fix” to their problems. It’s nasty for buidup on pipes, water containers & hoses not to mention totally unnecessary. But they would like to make you believe you need this. YOU DONT. It’s only beneficial for their pocketbooks. By the way where’s the pictures of the glue

 

[blazeoneup]

Water only. Organic. She gets color. Even when temps don't drop below 68 degrees. When she fades, when fully ripe, upon having truly entered senescence, she will give of some purples/magenta/reds. I think most strains I've ran tend to do that. It almost seems more common than strains that just go flat yellow. Maybe it's the just because I tend to grow a lot of blueberry or purple hybrids.

Pictures from Phillthy to make the point. She has it in her.



dank.Frank

She colors up without any reduction of temperature in my experience.

 

[Loc Dog]

I have had house for sale for ages, and stuck some small GG4 plants in hidden area. Must be about 40F in there on cold days. Water in coco like once every 2 weeks. They do not look great, but I am hoping not to lose the genetics. Also have some cuts in there that must be 3 months old in water, and they do not look too bad. Roots growing. Will try moving some of them straight to coco. Will post pictures next time I go in there.

 

[sturgeongeneral]

Some glue from my last run of it.

 

[Midwest Toker]

Yes, I get nice colors from the Glue,

 

[Hammerhead]

If I had to guess you guys are flushing longer and flowered longer?. Normal gg#4 runs are 2 week flush taken at 65 days no color on these.

 

[CannaRed]

If I had to guess you guys are flushing longer and flowered longer?. Normal gg#4 runs are 2 week flush taken at 65 days no color on these.

I took my last glue down at 72 days. Im in coco so, only flushed for 5 days. But I noticed she started to "fade" and purple just slightly, days before I started flush.

 

[Hammerhead]

I took my last glue down at 72 days. Im in coco so, only flushed for 5 days. But I noticed she started to "fade" and purple just slightly, days before I started flush.

The longer there left in flower those colors will show up eventually. All plants will when left in flower on just ro. If you wanted some color at 65 days starting your fade at week 5 will do it.

 

[Tonygreen]

After 70 she will color. Particularly if you swing the ph high or low. Normal 65 I dont see it.

 

[sturgeongeneral]

These were around 70 and after 10 days of pH water and clearex. Color always came out for me the longer she was flushed depending on how heavily I had fed in flower. I've had glue flushed early turn colors early 60s. I prefer a later chop 70 ish.

 

[Loc Dog]

If I had to guess you guys are flushing longer and flowered longer?. Normal gg#4 runs are 2 week flush taken at 65 days no color on these.

Is that in soil?

 

[Midwest Toker]

If I had to guess you guys are flushing longer and flowered longer?. Normal gg#4 runs are 2 week flush taken at 65 days no color on these.

yes , but I don't really flush, I taper nute's down till the last feed is only water and never pour copious amounts of water through my pots. 70 days minimum for my Glues