Artful Codger
Active member
The post that kicked off this thread was @negative37dBA describing how he uses Jack's dry nutes in his RDWC setup. I think most of us who've been along for the ride from the beginning are generally in the dry salts world.
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Getting off the "Bottle".... how I DIY ALL my nutes.
- Thread starter negative37dBA
- Start date
Week 4
Active member
ok.. got it, I'm kicking sand in the wrong place then ..
sorry guysThis was from an earlier post by the OP.......
"So I have not updated a thing from when this thread was first posted. Not really needing to repost all the recipes again....they are all in the thread right near the start.
I use Jacks 3-2-1 for my main food.
Make my own 3 part cal mag from dry.
I use a MPK additive that I also mix from dry during flower.
Silica during veg and first couple weeks of flower I make from dry to.
The only thing that I do that is different from other people is I make it into a liquid concentrate so its easier to use.
I use no adds like sugars or flushing agents or any other beneficials. It is really just that easy. The only thing you need is excellent quality start water and a good scale.
Jacks
Cal mag
MPK
Silica
0 PPM UV filter R/O water. Less can be more and the money savings is super nice.
That's all folks to make super high quality meds....."
Not organic
OOPS, other replies came in while I was typing. Sorry
GasD
Member
I honestly want to switch to a powdered nutrient system to avoid liquid spills and staining. I'm just super confused by OPs formulations. It comes off very manic, thrown out randomly, and unclear. Can you mix this into a regular solution that isn't concentrated? And if so, where to find a good starting point on how many grams:gallons to begin with throughout the growing phases?
"It comes off very manic, thrown out randomly, and unclear."
wow appreciate you to bro.....
wow appreciate you to bro.....
Artful Codger
Active member
Jack's 3-2-1 is 3 grams per gallon of Jack's 5-12-26, 2 grams per gallon of calnit, and 1 gram per gallon of epsom salt. At some point, Jack's published an "updated" 3-2-1 that was 3.6-2.4-1.2. Some people run that for their entire run. Some people play with the ratio in different phases (e.g. 4-2-1).
You absolutely can mix that into a regular solution. Many of us who've settled on a dry nute line make stock solutions to make mixing easier, but it's not required.
GasD
Member
I an not trying to be rude or petulant. I apologize that it comes off that way. It's just hard for me to decipher any true formula in the initial texts because it jumps around a lot. If you looked at my notes you would more than likely feel the same way. It's just not my method of communicating information just as mine isn't yours. I do appreciate that you took the time to put the information out there. I just have a hard time finding a clear cut formula within all of the information and it hits my brain as random and manic. To you and others I'm sure that it is crystal clear but to me it wasn't so I said how I felt and asked for guidance.
GasD
Member
I appreciate the info. I just want to get away from liquid nutrients so creating a concentrated liquid solution doesn't appeal to me. After using the flora series since 2005 I'm ready to switch to something that won't stain my carpet or crystallize around the bottle cap, making it impossible to open. I like the idea of just adding powdered nutes to my water.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
When you err on the side of underfeeding, use R/O water and DIY calcium acetate (KNF water soluble calcium), you can grow amazingly tasty cannabis with MaxiBloom powdered nutes. Add some low nitrogen bunny manure tea for terps and oh man...
I used to use the one bag for both veg and bloom, which makes for short/stocky plants.
I used to use the one bag for both veg and bloom, which makes for short/stocky plants.
I have been running lower EC this go round. I have been down around a .6 or .5 EC for most of the run. Changed the composition of the mix slightly with more MPK. I like what I am seeing so far. We are at day 32 here in this shot. Almost no defs that I am seeing. Very slight K def showing at leaf edges. Always nice to run lesser nutes. Mine are super cheap already but this makes it even more so. Just Jacks, Cal mag and MPK.
As almost always the GG4 clone only. In my humble opinion one of the best if not the best strain of all time.
This strain I never get tired of. It always gives me the effects I am looking for even after smoking it constantly for years now daily. Long live the Glue!
Have a sweet day all. Peace, negative.
As almost always the GG4 clone only. In my humble opinion one of the best if not the best strain of all time.
This strain I never get tired of. It always gives me the effects I am looking for even after smoking it constantly for years now daily. Long live the Glue!
Have a sweet day all. Peace, negative.
I used bottle nutes for years
have mixed my own mineral salt combo’s since then..much cheaper..but better keep an eye on the different weights when mixing
no plastic bottle shame[jk]
but for the last year
I got some worm castings, some normal substrate like promix,some hen pellets, some kelp powder,
some bat guano ...
done few crops ,they seem happy enough and I only add water..
i could be doing more like watering with various teas made from kelp ,guano etc,,
but so far so good
have mixed my own mineral salt combo’s since then..much cheaper..but better keep an eye on the different weights when mixing
no plastic bottle shame[jk]
but for the last year
I got some worm castings, some normal substrate like promix,some hen pellets, some kelp powder,
some bat guano ...
done few crops ,they seem happy enough and I only add water..
i could be doing more like watering with various teas made from kelp ,guano etc,,
but so far so good
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GasD. Just adding powdered nutrients to your water is ok depending on how you do it. They have to be mixed up of course and in a certain order. You will have some issues if you don't. As long as you mix them correctly you will have no issues. The reason I make a concentrated solution is so I don't have to measure dry powder every time. It makes it very easy to use. As far as spilage and staining. I use syringe type injectors to draw up the solution. They make no spills at all. When I do pour I use a glass beaker I fill over a towel. Any tiny drops are on the towel and I clean it now and then. Easy peasy. The build up of salts around the rim of a bottle is because its salt based ferts. Just clean them now and again and it will never be a issue.
Just really depends on how easy you want it to be. Might depend on your grow size and style to. I grow RDWC so dry nutes are awesome for me. Clean, precise and efficient.
Have a sweet day all. Peace, negative.
Just really depends on how easy you want it to be. Might depend on your grow size and style to. I grow RDWC so dry nutes are awesome for me. Clean, precise and efficient.
Have a sweet day all. Peace, negative.
GasD
Member
I understand, I typically use these in 250ml and 500ml along with graduated cylinders to add nutrients to my solutions. So I see that the liquids would definitely work. I just hate this large gallon bottles. I clean the neck every time with 50/50 iso/distilled water to remove the salts and iit's still crusty af when you go to remove the cap each time. And the red colors that leak down the bottle no matter what you do. I'm going to give the jacks a shot because it seems colorless which would be great.
Artful Codger
Active member
My stock solution setup. I mixed the concentrations so that I use 30 ml per gallon of each for 3-2-1. I don't know if I've reached the pinnacle of laziness, but I'm on my way...
I will take 40ml of B please...love it!!
Peace, negative.
Peace, negative.
hey Negative37DBA, great thread!!
Im hoping this is where i can go down this recent rabbit hole.
So i've been messing with 3/2/1 ratios or alike for some years now. An i guess this thought of what im trying to get across, and or question, is more along chemistry, and or ionic bonds. Cec or the movement of cation an anions as they are added into the water. possibly how they react with the hydrogen at time of mixing and the minerals or elements that may have been previously added. And possiblity of how this nutrient reacts within the plant roots movement thereafter. Or even causing a reduced movement or abosorbtion issues. Cause after all, current environments are starting to push the limits of what the plants can do.
My undertstanding can be beginner at best. And i really wish i could get this thought into proper context. I hope my undersatnding or missunderstanding can be interpreted.
Beside the posibilty of a visual partcipation or fallout of suspension, a proper mixing order is established for a reason. So when the said nutrient is added to the reservoir, call it "A B C D E F G" and so on is mixed in, it "plays along" with nuitrients already in suspension in the reservior.
For some reason i feel my basic understanding of cec has led me to start individually diluting each dry nutrient with a few gallons of fresh water then adding into a reservoir already 80% filled with water. Knowing that in some cases when this ionic nutrient eventually added in as "D or E", has had a proper chance to intereact with the hydrogen in the water on its own, allowing its interaction to go on without interference. Now possibly when the individual solution of "D or E" is added, it holds its bonds or place when added in to the reservoir. Call it some percentage
Now when " D " is added, it is not even remotely influenced by a slight concentration of it predecessor's already in suspension.
I feel like filling a reservior to say 80% with water then adding A and then mixxing and letting dilute, adding B and mixxing and letting dilute, by the time u get to C the powder still enters as a conentration and there is still possibilby unwanted reactions even if for a split second. Or, Even if "D " is already a stock solution.
Is this abit much?
I guess im trying to learn more, if anyone recommend any insight, or aritcles or authors to read up on?
thanks everyone & Bsafe
Im hoping this is where i can go down this recent rabbit hole.
So i've been messing with 3/2/1 ratios or alike for some years now. An i guess this thought of what im trying to get across, and or question, is more along chemistry, and or ionic bonds. Cec or the movement of cation an anions as they are added into the water. possibly how they react with the hydrogen at time of mixing and the minerals or elements that may have been previously added. And possiblity of how this nutrient reacts within the plant roots movement thereafter. Or even causing a reduced movement or abosorbtion issues. Cause after all, current environments are starting to push the limits of what the plants can do.
My undertstanding can be beginner at best. And i really wish i could get this thought into proper context. I hope my undersatnding or missunderstanding can be interpreted.
Beside the posibilty of a visual partcipation or fallout of suspension, a proper mixing order is established for a reason. So when the said nutrient is added to the reservoir, call it "A B C D E F G" and so on is mixed in, it "plays along" with nuitrients already in suspension in the reservior.
For some reason i feel my basic understanding of cec has led me to start individually diluting each dry nutrient with a few gallons of fresh water then adding into a reservoir already 80% filled with water. Knowing that in some cases when this ionic nutrient eventually added in as "D or E", has had a proper chance to intereact with the hydrogen in the water on its own, allowing its interaction to go on without interference. Now possibly when the individual solution of "D or E" is added, it holds its bonds or place when added in to the reservoir. Call it some percentage
Now when " D " is added, it is not even remotely influenced by a slight concentration of it predecessor's already in suspension.
I feel like filling a reservior to say 80% with water then adding A and then mixxing and letting dilute, adding B and mixxing and letting dilute, by the time u get to C the powder still enters as a conentration and there is still possibilby unwanted reactions even if for a split second. Or, Even if "D " is already a stock solution.
Is this abit much?
I guess im trying to learn more, if anyone recommend any insight, or aritcles or authors to read up on?
thanks everyone & Bsafe
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Thanks for the nice comments gmanwho. Normally if you mix to quickly or not properly you will see "fallout" I have had this happen only 1 time in my entire time growing RDWC. My normal change out process goes like this.
I turn the lights down to the lowest setting about 1/2 hour prior to lights out. It takes me 30 minutes to change out. I then turn off all pumps, chiller and 1 fan. Then I drain with a pump till its out. I refill with R/O, UV sterilized water. As it is filling I start with my nutes. I wait till about half full then add my 3 part cal mag mix 1 part at a time allowing about 5 minutes in between parts. By this time my system is full and I can turn on the circ pump. I check my EC and I shoot for .3. Then I start with the A and B. Separately and 5 mins apart with circ pump running. When I hit .7 or so depending on what week I am in I am good. The only time I had a issue was when I rushed the process and the water went cloudy indicating a reaction. I will add my MPK last and am good to go.
I can see your logic of diluting your concentrates with fresh water. I just have never seemed to have a issue so I do not do that. I can happen for sure and maybe on some small level it even still is but I see no real negative results in my outcomes. I can see tasking a deep dive on this issue would be fun. I am not sure it is a real problem if you mix correctly and give it the proper time it needs. A bit above my knowledge grade as well. I just know what has worked for me well over the years of water growing.
Have a sweet day. Peace, negative.
I turn the lights down to the lowest setting about 1/2 hour prior to lights out. It takes me 30 minutes to change out. I then turn off all pumps, chiller and 1 fan. Then I drain with a pump till its out. I refill with R/O, UV sterilized water. As it is filling I start with my nutes. I wait till about half full then add my 3 part cal mag mix 1 part at a time allowing about 5 minutes in between parts. By this time my system is full and I can turn on the circ pump. I check my EC and I shoot for .3. Then I start with the A and B. Separately and 5 mins apart with circ pump running. When I hit .7 or so depending on what week I am in I am good. The only time I had a issue was when I rushed the process and the water went cloudy indicating a reaction. I will add my MPK last and am good to go.
I can see your logic of diluting your concentrates with fresh water. I just have never seemed to have a issue so I do not do that. I can happen for sure and maybe on some small level it even still is but I see no real negative results in my outcomes. I can see tasking a deep dive on this issue would be fun. I am not sure it is a real problem if you mix correctly and give it the proper time it needs. A bit above my knowledge grade as well. I just know what has worked for me well over the years of water growing.
Have a sweet day. Peace, negative.
You guys sound like you've run the Jacks for a while now. Neg your 728ppm (500) comes out to 1.45ec. The Jacks label says to feed at 2.4ec for veg and bloom? Seen a few people state to run it full strength or you will run into issues.
I am steadily trying to increase from 1.5ec currently up to 1.8 as I was seeing some light green a bit of spotting and a little fading. No tip burn yet. This is in hydroton feeding every 3 hours until ebb. Ph 5.5-6.2 it keeps drifting up daily.
RO 0ppm
Jacks 321
.5ml/gal mr fulvic
2-3ml/gal silica blast
I am steadily trying to increase from 1.5ec currently up to 1.8 as I was seeing some light green a bit of spotting and a little fading. No tip burn yet. This is in hydroton feeding every 3 hours until ebb. Ph 5.5-6.2 it keeps drifting up daily.
RO 0ppm
Jacks 321
.5ml/gal mr fulvic
2-3ml/gal silica blast
That is interesting. The medium you use to grow in sure effects the amount of nutrients you need. I am sure it is also somewhat strain dependent to. In my RDWC with the GG4 I have never went over 1.0 EC and currently sitting at .6. Green and healthy in week 5 of flower. That EC is also a bit low on the Jacks mix and higher on the MPK. I could never go to 2.4 EC my plants would burn like hell. Very interesting. I have found that RDWC is a VERY efficient way to grow.
Peace, negative.
Peace, negative.
Just wanted to inquire. I am a bit skeptical as well. But have run much higher ec in coco. I did not like the coco buds not as potent lower yeild, much much lower yeild.
I am keeping an eye on them. I ran Thh and oHaze at 1.2ec all the way through in aero just barely burnt tips. That was with maxibloom.
Jacks does list a range on another label of like 1.5-2.4 I believe. I will just continue to be cautious and have usually tried to run lower ec's but was having issues in veg until I kicked it up a notch. Thank you! LT
