Germany to legalize cannabis

[Cuddles]

There is no club. There is no buying weed. No oil. Nothing like a business in any shape or form.

There is you, growing your own. You can have associates, such as myself, who can help you, and get a share for doing so. There will be no giving it me unless I have taken part.

This is home growing, for yourself. You can have associates, but in that case, someone will be responsible for keeping track of these connections. They can't be a criminal.

It's recreational not medical. No dealing it out to people who didn't take part. No selling it. Nobody is to be reliant on this in any shape or form. So that when you are trying to buy some, they can make it illegal again, having failed to make it work. Without drawing criticism from business or ill people. Who shouldn't be getting it.

They are giving it you for one reason. It's so they can take it away again. People are going to be told they can grow their own, and think they can start smoking it in the park. Opening shops. the obvious stuff that's as good as got it banned again already. Watch Thailand.

people have to pay for it, hence they´re buying. It´s practically the same thing.
My point however was that I couldn´t find info on hash or oil. How much can a person of these have? And how will the pricing be handled/ regulated.
I guess it´s too soon and this type of information will be announced at a later point. That is, if the whole thing does actually happen, lol

 

[Cuddles]

Nobody controls what people grow at home.
And if you absolutely need more grass, for whatever reason, register your mom, sister and your buddies, who don't consume, in the club.

they´d kill me , lol

 

[Hasch]

Edibles, oil etc are still being debated / looked into.

I get the impression a main challange the the ministers involved is lack of comprehensive knowledge (experience ) of the subject matter...

 

[ip tampae]

If it's legal, it's legal. You can smoke and consume it anywhere.

I get the impression a main challange the the ministers involved is lack of comprehensive knowledge (experience ) of the subject matter...

Yep, and it is also up to us to deal with it sensibly.

 

[Cuddles]

Edibles, oil etc are still being debated / looked into.

I get the impression a main challange the the ministers involved is lack of comprehensive knowledge (experience ) of the subject matter...

yes absolutely! This has always been the main problem of lawmakers. And doctors too If doctors and health insurances were more open minded and less lazy we might all have legal or decriminailzed weed by now. I´ve never understood why doctors and insurances never did anythig. It could potentially save them (insurances) $$$$$
But they´re just too ... not sure what.

 

[Hasch]

Well from what I know + been told, the pharmaceutical lobby in German is at least as "strong" / well connected as the automotive lobby is. This being the country of zhe Autobahn, BMW, Mercedes etc that is saying something.

And the pharmaceutical companies have invested so much in R&D of their drugs, they have little reason to just let cannabis take a chunk of the revenues

 

[windmills]

Edibles, oil etc are still being debated / looked into.

I get the impression a main challange the the ministers involved is lack of comprehensive knowledge (experience ) of the subject matter...

That is so funny but obviously seems true. I am wishing the best for you and all the EU countries. Obliged

 

[Cuddles]

Well from what I know + been told, the pharmaceutical lobby in German is at least as "strong" / well connected as the automotive lobby is. This being the country of zhe Autobahn, BMW, Mercedes etc that is saying something.

And the pharmaceutical companies have invested so much in R&D of their drugs, they have little reason to just let cannabis take a chunk of the revenues

yep. I´ve always suspected pharma companies and the amount of taxes they pay. not just in germany, but many other countries too.

 

[windmills]

Let's hope the German government does not hold off from doing what they know the people want. Obliged

 

[Ca++]

If it's legal, it's legal. You can smoke and consume it anywhere.

Yep, and it is also up to us to deal with it sensibly.

That is the viewpoint that will have it taken away again.



The sensible action is to carry on as if nothing has changed. Do your grow. Don't register it's existance. Keep it your secret. If caught you can play the ignorance card, knowing it's not that serious.

Once everyone has indeed policed themselves, because it's legal, the ban will be back in place. Your neighbours will not suspect you of growing or smoking. The police won't have you on an associations list. These laws will be just a blip in the past, where everyone outed themselves, and you didn't.

By carrying on as you are, the rest of the population see no change. That makes the government people happy. After which they will try and earn money. Make jobs. Allow business. The things that make back pedaling impossible.

There is no win at this point. Only danger. The win comes when the gov start making money. That is when your rights solidify.

 

[windmills]

That is the viewpoint that will have it taken away again.



The sensible action is to carry on as if nothing has changed. Do your grow. Don't register it's existance. Keep it your secret. If caught you can play the ignorance card, knowing it's not that serious.

Once everyone has indeed policed themselves, because it's legal, the ban will be back in place. Your neighbours will not suspect you of growing or smoking. The police won't have you on an associations list. These laws will be just a blip in the past, where everyone outed themselves, and you didn't.

By carrying on as you are, the rest of the population see no change. That makes the government people happy. After which they will try and earn money. Make jobs. Allow business. The things that make back pedaling impossible.

There is no win at this point. Only danger. The win comes when the gov start making money. That is when your rights solidify.

This sounds regrettably familiar. In Holland, for example, you can smoke, but where did it come from? Sad but true.

 

[ip tampae]

If it's legal, it's legal. You can smoke and consume it anywhere.

To say that we should continue to behave as before is not the right way to go. Me and 4 million other people have been hiding for far too long. These people are all good and ordinary citizens. Their only crime is the use of cannabis.
What my neighbors or the police think doesn't matter when it comes to legalization. As long as you abide by the law.
I also don't harass anyone who consumes alcohol, cigarettes or sugar in public.

Here again the rules
Short version:
In the future, adults will be allowed to grow cannabis in certain quantities privately or in non-profit associations and will be able to obtain it in licensed specialist shops as part of a regional pilot project. This was agreed by the German government after talks with the EU Commission on the key issues paper of 26 October 2022. The aim remains to control quality, prevent the transfer of contaminated substances, to ensure the protection of minors and the health of consumers in the best possible way and to curb the black market.
In a first step, cultivation in non-profit associations and private self-cultivation are to be made possible nationwide. In a second step, the distribution in specialist shops will be implemented as a scientifically designed, regionally limited and temporary model project. In the pilot project, the effects of a commercial supply chain on health and youth protection as well as the black market can be scientifically investigated in more detail.

The long version for the interested reader with the most important details:

The 2-pillar model in detail:

Pillar 1: Private & Community, Non-Profit Self-Cultivation

• Non-profit associations are allowed to cultivate cannabis for recreational purposes and give it to members for their own consumption under narrow, clearly defined legal frameworks. The members should participate as actively as possible in the association. Participation of employees of the associations in cultivation is permitted, but commissioning of third parties with the cultivation is excluded.
• The framework conditions for handling are regulated in a separate law.
• In addition to the harvested recreational cannabis, seeds and cuttings produced by the association may also be given to members for home cultivation. It is examined whether and how seeds and/or cuttings for private self-cultivation may be obtained at cost price from the associations, without membership in an association being a prerequisite.
• Approval and monitoring are carried out by state authorities, among other things, with regard to compliance with quantity, quality and youth protection requirements and with random checks and on-site visits. Personal data collected by the associations in connection with the supply of recreational cannabis, seeds and cuttings to members may not be disclosed to unauthorized third parties or used for other purposes. Membership in several associations is prohibited.
• Fines, revocation of registration or fines/imprisonment for multiple violations are possible.
• Cultivation and harvest quantities are geared towards meeting demand. There are reporting and documentation obligations for quantities produced and delivered. There is a ban on the import or export of recreational cannabis.
• Membership fees cover the cost price, staggered according to the amount sold (if necessary with a basic flat rate and additional amount per gram delivered).
• The number of members per association is limited to a maximum of 500 with a minimum age of 18 years and residence or habitual abode in Germany. The number of associations can be limited by population density.
• Leadership of the association is only possible by natural persons whose reliability has been checked. The association is managed in accordance with the principles of association law. Personal liability of the board of directors of the association in the event of financial loss or the violation of official requirements shall only take place in the event of intent or gross negligence.
• The procurement of seeds for (initial) cultivation in the associations is made possible. The possibility of importing seeds from third countries is being examined.
• The distribution of the harvested cannabis (flowers) is only allowed to members; no disclosure to third parties; max. 25g cannabis per day, max. 50g per month, max. 7 seeds or 5 cuttings per month. The distribution to adolescents under the age of 21 is limited to an amount of 30g per month, in addition with a limit on the permissible THC content (limit to be clarified). This should be reflected in the selection of varieties.
• It will be examined whether and how seeds and cuttings can be exchanged free of charge between associations for quality assurance.
• Quality requirements apply to community cultivation (in particular prohibition of additives or admixtures such as tobacco or flavourings, specifications for plant protection products, no synthetic cannabinoids).
• It can only be dispensed in its pure form (flowers or resin) in neutral packaging or loose with attached information on the product (strain, including its usual average THC content and content of other cannabinoids such as CBD), dosage and use, as well as risks of consumption and counselling centres.
• Consumption in the premises of the association is prohibited, as is public consumption near schools, daycare centers or the like as well as in pedestrian zones until 8 p.m.
• Unpunished possession (carrying in public) is possible for personal consumption up to 25g; penal provisions apply to possession beyond this, to trade and supply to non-members as well as to children and adolescents, as well as to the supply of cannabis not grown in the associations themselves.
• The limit values for road, waterborne and air traffic are reviewed with the involvement of the relevant expert bodies. Regulations on the permissibility of driving under the influence of cannabis are based exclusively on the requirements of road safety.
• The penalty-free private self-cultivation includes a maximum of 3 female flowering plants and must be protected from access by children and adolescents.
• After 4 years, the requirements for Pillar 1 will be evaluated with the aim of examining any adjustments with regard to health and youth protection as well as reducing the black market.

Pillar 2: Regional pilot project with commercial supply chains

• The project duration is 5 years from the established supply chain.
• There is a spatial limitation to drop-off points and adult residents of certain districts/cities in several federal states (opt-in approach).
• Within the framework of the law, an authorisation for the sale of edibles is being examined in compliance with strict youth and health protection regulations.
• The model will be scientifically monitored and evaluated. The findings will be made available to the European partners and the EU Commission.
• The protection of health and young people also follows the key issues paper of 26 October 2022

This is the way!

 

[Hasch]

This is the way!

Greetings from Grogu

 

[Ca++]

If it's legal, it's legal. You can smoke and consume it anywhere.

To say that we should continue to behave as before is not the right way to go. Me and 4 million other people have been hiding for far too long. These people are all good and ordinary citizens. Their only crime is the use of cannabis.
What my neighbors or the police think doesn't matter when it comes to legalization. As long as you abide by the law.
I also don't harass anyone who consumes alcohol, cigarettes or sugar in public.

Here again the rules
Short version:
In the future, adults will be allowed to grow cannabis in certain quantities privately or in non-profit associations and will be able to obtain it in licensed specialist shops as part of a regional pilot project. This was agreed by the German government after talks with the EU Commission on the key issues paper of 26 October 2022. The aim remains to control quality, prevent the transfer of contaminated substances, to ensure the protection of minors and the health of consumers in the best possible way and to curb the black market.
In a first step, cultivation in non-profit associations and private self-cultivation are to be made possible nationwide. In a second step, the distribution in specialist shops will be implemented as a scientifically designed, regionally limited and temporary model project. In the pilot project, the effects of a commercial supply chain on health and youth protection as well as the black market can be scientifically investigated in more detail.

The long version for the interested reader with the most important details:

The 2-pillar model in detail:

Pillar 1: Private & Community, Non-Profit Self-Cultivation

• Non-profit associations are allowed to cultivate cannabis for recreational purposes and give it to members for their own consumption under narrow, clearly defined legal frameworks. The members should participate as actively as possible in the association. Participation of employees of the associations in cultivation is permitted, but commissioning of third parties with the cultivation is excluded.
• The framework conditions for handling are regulated in a separate law.
• In addition to the harvested recreational cannabis, seeds and cuttings produced by the association may also be given to members for home cultivation. It is examined whether and how seeds and/or cuttings for private self-cultivation may be obtained at cost price from the associations, without membership in an association being a prerequisite.
• Approval and monitoring are carried out by state authorities, among other things, with regard to compliance with quantity, quality and youth protection requirements and with random checks and on-site visits. Personal data collected by the associations in connection with the supply of recreational cannabis, seeds and cuttings to members may not be disclosed to unauthorized third parties or used for other purposes. Membership in several associations is prohibited.
• Fines, revocation of registration or fines/imprisonment for multiple violations are possible.
• Cultivation and harvest quantities are geared towards meeting demand. There are reporting and documentation obligations for quantities produced and delivered. There is a ban on the import or export of recreational cannabis.
• Membership fees cover the cost price, staggered according to the amount sold (if necessary with a basic flat rate and additional amount per gram delivered).
• The number of members per association is limited to a maximum of 500 with a minimum age of 18 years and residence or habitual abode in Germany. The number of associations can be limited by population density.
• Leadership of the association is only possible by natural persons whose reliability has been checked. The association is managed in accordance with the principles of association law. Personal liability of the board of directors of the association in the event of financial loss or the violation of official requirements shall only take place in the event of intent or gross negligence.
• The procurement of seeds for (initial) cultivation in the associations is made possible. The possibility of importing seeds from third countries is being examined.
• The distribution of the harvested cannabis (flowers) is only allowed to members; no disclosure to third parties; max. 25g cannabis per day, max. 50g per month, max. 7 seeds or 5 cuttings per month. The distribution to adolescents under the age of 21 is limited to an amount of 30g per month, in addition with a limit on the permissible THC content (limit to be clarified). This should be reflected in the selection of varieties.
• It will be examined whether and how seeds and cuttings can be exchanged free of charge between associations for quality assurance.
• Quality requirements apply to community cultivation (in particular prohibition of additives or admixtures such as tobacco or flavourings, specifications for plant protection products, no synthetic cannabinoids).
• It can only be dispensed in its pure form (flowers or resin) in neutral packaging or loose with attached information on the product (strain, including its usual average THC content and content of other cannabinoids such as CBD), dosage and use, as well as risks of consumption and counselling centres.
• Consumption in the premises of the association is prohibited, as is public consumption near schools, daycare centers or the like as well as in pedestrian zones until 8 p.m.
• Unpunished possession (carrying in public) is possible for personal consumption up to 25g; penal provisions apply to possession beyond this, to trade and supply to non-members as well as to children and adolescents, as well as to the supply of cannabis not grown in the associations themselves.
• The limit values for road, waterborne and air traffic are reviewed with the involvement of the relevant expert bodies. Regulations on the permissibility of driving under the influence of cannabis are based exclusively on the requirements of road safety.
• The penalty-free private self-cultivation includes a maximum of 3 female flowering plants and must be protected from access by children and adolescents.
• After 4 years, the requirements for Pillar 1 will be evaluated with the aim of examining any adjustments with regard to health and youth protection as well as reducing the black market.

Pillar 2: Regional pilot project with commercial supply chains

• The project duration is 5 years from the established supply chain.
• There is a spatial limitation to drop-off points and adult residents of certain districts/cities in several federal states (opt-in approach).
• Within the framework of the law, an authorisation for the sale of edibles is being examined in compliance with strict youth and health protection regulations.
• The model will be scientifically monitored and evaluated. The findings will be made available to the European partners and the EU Commission.
• The protection of health and young people also follows the key issues paper of 26 October 2022

This is the way!

You are out of touch. There won't be any shops now, and it's a trial. There will be no smoke it anywhere as you suggest. Just as you can't smoke tobacco just anywhere. In fact, if you want to smoke outside, it's generally after 8pm.

All the idiots did the same here. Just heard the decriminalised word, and took to the streets. They stopped the trial before the due date, and took the peoples rights away again. Your idea the police can do nothing, was just what they thought also.


A trial is where they try a new set of rules, for a limited time. During which time, they assess how people react. You are not getting it legalised. You are going to be examined. How you behave is the key to if you get to keep these new laws.
You are going to have to be really well behaved if you want shops to open at the end of this trial. In all likelihood, you will be lucky to keep these laws at all. Keep your head down.

 

[ip tampae]

There won't be any shops now, and it's a trial.

They have lost track, it seems to me.
It is given in different cities, of course shops. For this purpose, different model regions are selected to test it.

In fact, if you want to smoke outside, it's generally after 8pm.

Please inform yourself better. You are only allowed to smoke after 8:00 p.m., in the city center.
Before that, it is not possible.
You are also not allowed in front of schools and kindergartens. Otherwise, I can consume wherever I want.

All the idiots did the same here. Just heard the decriminalised word, and took to the streets. They stopped the trial before the due date, and took the peoples rights away again. Your idea the police can do nothing, was just what they thought also.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're alluding to?

A trial is where they try a new set of rules, for a limited time. During which time, they assess how people react. You are not getting it legalised. You are going to be examined. How you behave is the key to if you get to keep these new laws.
You are going to have to be really well behaved if you want shops to open at the end of this trial. In all likelihood, you will be lucky to keep these laws at all. Keep your head down.

They will do everything they can to secure their votes for the next election. In Germany it is very difficult to change laws. Why do you paint everything so black? Every step in this direction is a good one.
(It could be possible that we don't understand the other person properly.)

 

[tobedetermined]

Every step in this direction is a good one.

Exactly. The new proposals are absurdly weak . . . but . . . since German law also has to adhere to EU law, it looks like you have to accept the baby steps that they allow and work to broaden access over time. We got extremely lucky in Canada to have the right combination of government will and public acceptance that made our legalization model possible, but even it is still flawed and restrictive in many ways. The negative attitudes of prohibition are ingrained in a big chunk of the population in every country and we have to whittle away at them gradually.

 

[Hasch]

Every step in this direction is a good one.

That is the way I see it.

(It could be possible that we don't understand the other person properly.)

That is often the way of the internet

 

[Ca++]

Germany will take a lot of guidance from their neighbours. The Dutch way is along some of the boarder. Not long ago they were trying to stop people crossing over. Making Dutch towns in that area introduce ID schemes. I don't know the German parties, but I know politics. It's surprising the people are getting any sort of chance, and other parties will be offering to stop it at the next election. How much the people want it stopped, will depend on how much it has effected their lives. Remember only half of people ever try it, and only 1 in 5 might smoke once a year after decriminalisation. To many, it's still stinking drugs that bring crime. Something a members list isn't going to help.
Stopping it requires no effort. The end date will be set from the start. It's a trial. It's not new laws hard to remove. It's a 4 year period, to see what happens.

Germany were being better about it last year, but in April 2023 met with other EU nations, who collectively dampened their enthusiasm. The Dutch were surely part of this. We know they are not issuing any more coffee shop licenses. They are in effect reducing the number, until non will be left. This is a strong message to the Germans. The other big European players are France and the UK. France are saying they don't want it. The UK are saying they had a trial and ended it. I don't think the Germans will be interested in the Spanish model. A country of farming and holidays, that like a siesta.

If we look at Denmark, it's illegal but in some areas there are shops. This gives the police total control over who gets involved. It seems to be working.
The Dutch get too much unwanted tourism and smoking on the street they don't like. They have not legalised the supply chain. Again, giving total control of who gets involved.
The Thai's just laid the way for home grown, without a legal framework in place. It's gone crazy. It's a tourist location, so has got bigger than local consumption. A bit like the Dutch problem. The Thai government have in all likelihood let it run it's own course, just to see what that looks like. They are also quite good at getting foreign investors, then making it illegal for them to carry on. The laws are coming though. Cutting things down to size. Germany can't fail to notice this. Though nobody has any reason to rush to Germany trying to score anyway.
If the German smokers limit exposure for non-smokers, the trial will go well.
If they stand around on corners with their legal carry limit, trying to hide the fact they are selling, the trial will get stopped. That was what killed it for the UK. Growers wanting to sell it.

Things take time. When the clock strikes midnight, the race isn't won. The competition is just starting. It will take 4 years of giving nobody any reason to complain, before any of this becomes law.

If it's legal, it's legal. You can smoke and consume it anywhere.

Please inform yourself better. You are only allowed to smoke after 8:00 p.m., in the city center.
Before that, it is not possible.
You are also not allowed in front of schools and kindergartens

I'm much happier with your second version of events.

 

[Ca++]

Changing direction a little..

Running a co-op will be difficult. First you need a registered address where their can't be consumption. Perhaps a mailbox.
Then you might have 500 members. How often might they want to score. You can't carry enough stock. The job will actually be managing all the growers, and where they are delivering to. This means knowing the schedule of the growers and consumers. This is looking like some work.


Grower can send out 25g at a time. That's about a months worth to most people. 500 members score every month, is about 15 a day. Or 400g being moved.

3 plants in amateur hands, might do 3g per day. So you want perhaps 150 growers to provide for a 500 people co-op.

150 growers, each doing that 15 deliveries, one day every 3 months.

It's fast becoming a computer program. You can deliver set amounts on a reoccurring basis, but growers often utter the words 'one more week' so you would have to set their delivery date a couple of weeks later than they should of got it.

Here lies a problem. The criminal that wants that list, or joins just to see who is delivering. The legal delivery guy who is running back to base for a 25g package between every run. In a normal distribution system, the grower could move all the product to a single person along the chain. A person that might split it 3 ways. To people that might get more exposure, but nobody ever really knows what they have at any time. This network that protects the bigger players is missing, when the grower can only move the 25g the customer wants. Their is no support for a middle tier to hold stock. The grower is issued customers from a 500 strong list, who they must go and see.


Again I suggest not getting involved. Certainly not in associations you don't tightly control. As a grower you could think a group of 15 friends will take your product, but they couldn't join two groups. You can only provide 3 types. No smoker wants that sort of restriction. They will head to the big group.

I do like that it's 3 flowering. So you could get a 7-8 week rotation going on each of your 3 flowering spaces. Thus a plant down every 18? days. I wouldn't want to publish that fact, but as home growing for personal goes, I would do the work, just for myself. Just not registered.. For when it's banned.

 

[goingrey]