J
has anybody grafted different strains on to one plant ?
CW
It has been done: Grafting to make a multi-strain mother
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Genetic Drift?
- Thread starter krunchbubble
- Start date
It has been done: Grafting to make a multi-strain mother
K
kopite
GxE= P in simple terms, I presume you are saying the original plant was from seed? now the G has stayed the same, has the Enviroment?
you have stated you ONLY run the mums fro 3 to 4 months max.. so every time to change the mums you run the risk of change/infection...do you keep the old mums?
if as you stated it started showing intersex traits and trying to reproduce this would imply STRESS would it not?
I would not call this Genetic drift though... Mutation(due to virus?) it certainly is and that narrows things down!!!
Kopite
I have to agree with kopite in that this is more an issue of stressful mutation, rather than some sort of genetic "drift".
The first clone passed on the exact same genetic map to every cutting...no matter if it were from seed, another clone, or revegged. None of those issues changes the genetic code present within the plant itself. And on the same token, each and every cutting had the ability to be stressed into what you are seeing now. The stress could actually have happened in previous generation of mums, and is just now showing itself.
And just like Shanti found out, it takes a good bit of work to recoup after such an event.
But the fact of the matter is that there was no genetic changes per se, only a realignment of what was already available.
The first clone passed on the exact same genetic map to every cutting...no matter if it were from seed, another clone, or revegged. None of those issues changes the genetic code present within the plant itself. And on the same token, each and every cutting had the ability to be stressed into what you are seeing now. The stress could actually have happened in previous generation of mums, and is just now showing itself.
And just like Shanti found out, it takes a good bit of work to recoup after such an event.
But the fact of the matter is that there was no genetic changes per se, only a realignment of what was already available.
I already hit the nail on the head answering his question, hoos... Post # 10. You are headed in the right direction but, study up on epigenetics to increase your understanding of the inner workings of biology, and the mechanisms by which temporary heritable changes in genetic expression can be made resulting from environmental problems. It is not a "stressful mutation", it is an epigenetic change induced environmentally.
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Epigenetic drift, and all of it's mechanisms are still somewhat of a mystery to real biologists. Still hard to distinguish between changes that take place as a result of this drift, or other stress mechanisms.
I appreciate your concern for my increased knowledge, head...but I suggest that maybe you also do a little study. I don't really think that you can make the blanket statement that what the OP is experiencing is "nail on the head epigenetic drift".
Drift is the gradual departure from an intended course due to external influences. The key word here is gradual.
ESCOknows
Member
ADD ONE MORE TO THE LIST
This is the same shit that happend to my Sour diesel x og kush i got back in 07 ... shit was FIRE for the first couple years then all of a sudden started to do the same thing Krunch said.... I had to pitch that bitch.
My mothers looked good, still cloned easy as fuck .. just turnd out like shit . weird ,i hate to hear this cause i know exactly what its like ... toss that shit and start over with some fresh stuff ,thats what i did .
This is the same shit that happend to my Sour diesel x og kush i got back in 07 ... shit was FIRE for the first couple years then all of a sudden started to do the same thing Krunch said.... I had to pitch that bitch.
My mothers looked good, still cloned easy as fuck .. just turnd out like shit . weird ,i hate to hear this cause i know exactly what its like ... toss that shit and start over with some fresh stuff ,thats what i did .
I study all the time. And my statement was not a "blanket" one in any manner. It was the correct one.
It was just that the phrase you used "stressful mutation" demonstrated that you were pretty far off base. Please explain to us all exactly what a "stressful mutation" is. The answer to his question is epigenetic, not mutation of any kind. Stress does not change the genome, it changes the eipgenome.
His clones are not being mutated by stress, they are undergoing epigenetic changes. I clearly followed up with an explanation of what I meant.
Drift occurs in line breeding, not in clones of clones of clones.
And of course it is gradual, since it takes many generations, that's not the key word at all, just a component of the definition.
That's ok... you can think you already know enough and close your mind to learning something new, no skin off my nose.
LoudBlunts
Member
why is that?
K
kopite
was it CX/darwin who said adaption is mutation.. anyway, riddle me this,, is an epigenetic effect a permanent effect? or not? was the Cheese a result of epigenetics or mutation ?
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/97/1/11
Kopite
I know enough about the topic to know that you can't make the statements you are making... hack answers. Perfect example of what I was talking about concerning your demeanor. The pompous and presumptive are right on cue.
Great discussion guys! H3ad I think you "nailed it on the head".
I personally have never had a clone do this to me in the past. I have kept moms for about 6 to 8 months max and then take a clone and flower the mom out. Not once have I had a strain go crap on me and I have kept strains for 3+ years before finally making room for something new. Word of advice...keep the 2 best cuts when you take your last batch of cuts. It's a back up just in case one goes bad.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
I personally have never had a clone do this to me in the past. I have kept moms for about 6 to 8 months max and then take a clone and flower the mom out. Not once have I had a strain go crap on me and I have kept strains for 3+ years before finally making room for something new. Word of advice...keep the 2 best cuts when you take your last batch of cuts. It's a back up just in case one goes bad.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
What a great post. Exactly on point. So many will learn from this post. Thank You for contributing this post.
furious george
New member
The current understanding is that whilst epigenetic effects do not encode themselves in the underlying DNA, they can exert an effect for many generations of cell divisions (so relevant to clones) and occasionally transgenerationally (as in studies that show that parents exposed to starvation conditions produced offspring acclimatized for conditions of scarcity) So as far as we know, No epigenetic effects are not permanent. Sometimes lasting, but not pemanent.
Cheese seems to me to be just another Skunk plant, with a heap of hype. The only thing that distinguishes it is a strong smell. I doubt this is the result of a novel genetic mutation or an epigenetic modification. But who can say? Only way to know is to study the genomes of the vast plethora of cannabis varieties and compare.
I think Grat3fulh3ad has given the OP the best answer they'll get
I have a cut of SSH that has been alive since '94-'95. It is the meanest thing known in these parts and all that has slipped is a bit of yield.
Not being pompous or presumptive at all. I was really trying to correct you without being rude. And I assure you, your post needed correction badly.
There is no such thing as "stressful mutations", so your answer was only so much bullshit. I tried to be polite about it, and share some knowledge with you, but your personal feelings seen to get in the way of that. Don't go around trying to explain things you do not know about, you'll only confuse people.
If you want to bash me and my reply, then that is all well and good, anyone who cares at all about the answer can spend 5 or 6 hours studying the past 5 years worth of epigenetic discoveries and come to the conclusion that what you call "stressful mutation" is simply a misnomer for epigenetic response.
KOPITE:
Epigenetic changes are heritable but reversible.
LoudBlunts
Member
so H3ad.....
riddle me this...
i had a mother start auto flowering on me a while back. It was a Serious Seeds White Russian...
does this fall into the same category? any thoughts on this?
riddle me this...
i had a mother start auto flowering on me a while back. It was a Serious Seeds White Russian...
does this fall into the same category? any thoughts on this?
What kinda lights was it under and how long was the photoperiod for? I had Serious Seeds Chronic under 24 hours of light and they were under fluoros...anyway, they pre flowered really hard when i switched to an 18/6 photoperiod and I know for a fact that old fluoro bulbs can cause flowering due to the frequency drop in light flicker.
LoudBlunts
Member
24/7 light ALWAYS. HO - T5s
i dont have much footprint/space to play with
so i enlisted a vertical rack and dubbed it as my prop rack or the rack...so i could take advantage of vertical and increase footprint sorta speak
its laced with t5s bottom shelf is 2ft 8bulbs
next is 2ft 4 bulbs and so on.
so Calcio if that was the case....why didnt it happen to my other plants?
