Genetic Drift?

[englishrick]

geez,,,,,i thought he was incrossing it,,

Krunch cant have ragd a clone by going clone to clone 4x ?,,,could he??

Krunch?

 

[krunchbubble]

I dunno... sounds to me like he is talking about cloning clones of clones... not growing seeds of seeds.

yes sir!

 

[englishrick]

yep,,sounds like an epigenetic effect,,,

good call...

sorry for being a lil slow

 

[<~Hades~>]

Whipe your razor blade with alcohol or clorox between cutting each mother plant, Some of us have wondered if Rooting hormone can alter a strain over time

 

[Guest50138]

I kind of remember Mr Nice had a viral problem with their cuttings many years ago,just remember reading somthing from Shanti about the drama it caused.could it be somthing like that? just a thought. mostly cutting will go indefinatly!

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

There has to be something to taking a clone from this or that condition mom, I got a clone of BMR and it's trifoliate at every node. No part of the mother is like this. Diff exression or mutatiuon on just a clone?

Now if you keep that clone, then you might have a hermie vending machine, who knows

Stress a clone and it's never the same?

smiley

 

[englishrick]

it sounds similar to when you re-veg to take clones,,,the plant is never the same again

 

[SourDeezy]

I noticed after taking hundreds of clones that a few will start to lose vigor. Like 2-3 out of 50. These always seem to be behind in overall growth in veg and yield at the end of the harvest. So I usually pluck them.

imo clone selection is very important.

 

[englishrick]

yeh,,,mother selection is very important!!,,,,,,,having to make new mothers is evevitable too,,,,

its good avice not to take cuts from cuts, if possible!!

whe i need new mothers i just grow some big plants and take some supa healthy soft bits,,,,

people have said my cheese seems to be healthyer and more vigorous than others they have seen,,,

 

[robbiedublu]

i also only run my moms for 3-4 months max, then start with a new one.....

Mind if I ask why you do this?

 

[CalcioErba2004]

Genetic variation in plants is so broad...

When you take a cutting off a mother plant, you are putting that cutting through a lot of stress...A LOT OF STRESS!!! If you take your last batch of cuttings, flower the mother and let's say the batch goes bad and you only get 50% rooted clones and pass these around there is a very high probability that even further stress from nute burn, light burn, not enough light, too much humidity, too little humidity, too much air flow(wind burn), too little air flow can cause these clones to hermie and start to grow like shit. The growers that think a clone of a mother is the same thing are right...and so very wrong. A vegging clone with an established root structure is no longer a cutting, or a clone. It is a plant all on its own. Environment can cause individual plants to do all sorts of things like grow funny and throw male flowers. I am not saying the genetics of the mother plant are in question; what I am saying is that every plant has the gene to go hermaphrodite. In nature it is harsh, a plant that is growing in harsh conditions, even if it is from the best damn genetics known on this planet, bred by God himself, whatever, it will hermie if it thinks it will not make it in an attempt to save the species.

I am not saying Krunchbubble doesn't know how to take clones...it could have been a cold front that came in and dropped the temps or vice versa, a warm front and temps got too high...pests got into them...reusing scissors or razors on different plants without cleaning them properly...there are a multitude of factors to involve when thinking about "genetic drift". Just my 2 cents...

 

[englishrick]

its too easy to take cuts from cuts,,,,,i know nebis who never keep mothers,,they just clone eachothers veg plants just beffore flower,,,between 5 of them they just need to veg and flower they dont see a need for a mother room

its pretty hard to maintain a mother for years ,,,,the oldest mother ive ever had must be just over 18 months,,,,

 

[englishrick]

the reason i got confused was because ive allways coniderd genetic-drift to be something that happens progressivly to a seedline,,,,,,head was right to call a strait-up epigenetic effect

full respect to Head for being so cool abot it too

 

[3dDream]

Anyone else noticed plants from seed never grow like their clones? I have an plant that made 13 fingered fans from seed and has yet to get past 7 as a clone. I have run her a few times using different sized/vegged cuts. I assume it is because the original cut used for the mom never expressed 13 finger fans?

 

[englishrick]

i allways thought clones seem to get a dence and complex rootball mutch quicker than seedplants

 

[Greyskull]

ive had strains that did very well for for for a couple years, and then out of nowhere, the strain will mutate into bullshit.

this happened to me on a strain i ran called kushberry and now my third dimension has done it. the strain will be kill for a couple years and then, it will not grow anything like it did previously and start to herm really bad, causing tons of small immature seeds to form, rendering the bud almost useless. both these strains were from seed.

what causes this?

i know people will say, if you clone from a clone from a clone ect, this will happen. i say bullshit because ive ran strains for 4+ years before and it never happened and is still going around the bay area growing fine 8+ years later.....

damn, krunch
i thought i was the only person having seen this sort of thing occur (until i talked w zoo & joesy & caligreen)... and you've seen it happen, twice!?! wow....

this happened to the sour dubble, kinda - sdx doesnt hermie though it just hemps out. turns diamonds into worthless shit
i finally was able to spot the dudds in veg (due to leaf mutation/shape) but still cannot figure out what the fuck caused it.

have you had any pests before you started noticing the issues?
i know you run a pretty tight ship...

gonna look into whatever epigenetic drift is....

 

[TGT]

I have had the same clone for probably six years, clone from clone and I seen a slow change in leaf thickness and size, but the buds are as tasty, potent, and produce just as much when I got them. When I got her she was a clone so who knows how long she was cloned for. Also, she vegs as fast as she always has and stretch when triggered has never changed at all.

I lost her two times and had to regain the clone back from friends I gifted her too. It always comes around - being nice to others that is. I worry she will change some day though, but I really hope it does not happen. Nothing lives forever, and this is basically what we want from these clones.

The most probable explaination I can see is if the plant changes slightly, but not for the worst, it is just adapting to a new grow room environment, type of grow, nutes used ect. If she changes for the worst, then I can only see it being an illness or virus has attacked the clone. Its always good to gift some out.

TGT

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i heard that this happens after 3 or 4 generations...

makes me think that back in the day one of my shitty hermy grows was because of this..

 

[Crispywaffle]

J
Just my 2 cents worth.
I have been growing for about 2 years now.Prior to that
I used to own a tropical fruit tree nursery.80+ acres.I have propogated just about every kind of tropical fruit tree you can imagine. Experience showed me that if I took a cutting from certain fruit trees and grew them out they were exactly the same as a 2 or 3 year old tree and had the exact same characteristics. as they got older we would take cuttings from the cuttings and start the process over. Every tree produce the exact same fruit. they are all the same tree. Each generation is just passing its genetics on. We did this along with airlayering , grafting and just plain old seedlings. anyone have 3-5 year clones of clones ect going strong? also has anybody grafted different strains on to one plant ?
CW

 

[GET MO]

Thats crazy. Seems it only happens to certain clones, mostly plants from seeds... relatively new seeds... The cannabis plant must be evolving.
One uh my folks doesnt keep mothers, he just takes cuts of all the plants right before he puts um in flower, flowers um out, then does the same with the next group of clones. Hes had the same cut for about 4-5 years and said that the time before last it was wierd, plant grew kinda scraggely and never filled out, still potent but grew like some hemp with barely any buds. then the next group of clones (off those crazy ones) were back to normal. I figured he mighta messed up with the the nutes or somethin but if he did it would be the first time I ever seen him fuck somethin up, usually grows the best fire Ive seen and runs a pretty tight ship.