GAVITA Pro 1000 DE

[Green Devil]

based on your picture I can assure you that you are over-saturating your plans close to the lamps. Over-saturation you can expect as close as 50 cm straight under the lamp as you will reach intensities of over 1400-umol, at 40 cm much more than 2000 umol!

A good ppfd is 1000 umol s-1 m-2. If your climate is perfect up to 1500. But going from 1000 to 1500 will not give you as much increase in yield as going from 600 to 1000. So in case you have average more than 1000 umol s-1 m-2 you should actually grow in a bigger space for a better efficiency and much less problems. Using a better spectrum allows you grow with higher intensity. I had plants survive at over 2000 umol plasma light, at very close distance.

No worries, it was D-day for the plants so it didn't really matter.
Interesting facts though, thanks!

I'd say the penetration is good, although I do cut a lot of fan leaves just to let the light through.

 

[hydrodreams]

[....]Why invent something new if this is already so efficient and can create such good uniformity? There has been so much reflector development over the last 25 years already, it is really hard to come up with something better with the same efficiency.[....]

So, would you say that it's technically impossible to develop a reflector that does light 1mx1m exactly when hanged somewhat 60cm above the plants and still deliver a high uniformity of about 1000 micromols allover the lighted 1m2?

I mean those professional lamps like the gavita pro fixtures are obviously developed to fit the needs of the greenhouses that order 20'000 ore more in the first place and not the grower who has a tent whit less than 10 lamps, which I can understand from the economic standpoint. So therefore the cone- shape of the light (120° with gavita) is rather wide than deep.

Or is it coincidence that that the gavita pro fixtures have the most optimal (technically possible) shape for the greenhouses as well for the small rooms/ tents?

In a larger room is it a lot simpler. Two lines of fixtures will give you a uniformity of more than 90% if positioned correctly, at a distance of about 1 meter of the crop. In a 3x7 m room with 12 lamps in two rows you can easily reach 1000 umol average this way with a uniformity better than 90%. Distance between lamps in row (core) 1.26m, between rows 1.74m.

But in this example of an optimal positioning, aren't you still losing light where the beds end on the long side (eather to the wall or on the floor), or do catch all the light that the lamp sends to the sides in this example?

I would have wrote you a pm if I could since this thread is about the Gavita 1000W, but I can't. So could you please make the above lamp- positioning- example of a 3x7m room also for a 600W- setup of a similar sice with all the distances?



Hydrodreams

 

[whazzup]

So, would you say that it's technically impossible to develop a reflector that does light 1mx1m exactly when hanged somewhat 60cm above the plants and still deliver a high uniformity of about 1000 micromols allover the lighted 1m2?

I mean those professional lamps like the gavita pro fixtures are obviously developed to fit the needs of the greenhouses that order 20'000 ore more in the first place and not the grower who has a tent whit less than 10 lamps, which I can understand from the economic standpoint. So therefore the cone- shape of the light (120° with gavita) is rather wide than deep.

Or is it coincidence that that the gavita pro fixtures have the most optimal (technically possible) shape for the greenhouses as well for the small rooms/ tents?

No doubt you can make a reflector that has a more uniform throw at short distance, but at what efficiency? Second problem is that in any small room the wall effects are really very high.

The Gavita reflector both has a deep reach as a wide throw. Therefor it is best used in combination for overlap or at a bit more distance. The side reflectors reflect a lot of light sideways, which, closer than to the crop in greenhouses, creates uniformity. In greenhouses on large distance from the crop that wide throw loses its intensity much quicker of course, but it is mixed with all the other lights for uniformity. Gavita reflectors are also used for climate rooms and have been used by growers and breeders for a very long time already. Greenhouse for example uses them, so do DNA Genetics, Serious seeds and many other growers and breeders.

So no, they were initially not developed for low rooms, but work really well and most important: very efficient.

But in this example of an optimal positioning, aren't you still losing light where the beds end on the long side (eather to the wall or on the floor), or do catch all the light that the lamp sends to the sides in this example?

I would have wrote you a pm if I could since this thread is about the Gavita 1000W, but I can't. So could you please make the above lamp- positioning- example of a 3x7m room also for a 600W- setup of a similar sice with all the distances?



Hydrodreams

You will always lose light at paths, but on the other hand the side reflectors send the light sideways which lights the sides of your crop next to the paths as well.

You need some light on your walls as you do not have any light source at that end to overlap. So yes, it is important to have good reflective foil.

3x7:

18x600W in two rows, row distance 1.7m, center lamps in the row 80 cm. At 60 cm of the lamp almost 1000 umol avg. At 1m distance 900 umol avg

 

[hydrodreams]

No doubt you can make a reflector that has a more uniform throw at short distance, but at what efficiency?[....]

Your answer implies that such a small-room-reflector would have a low effeciency. Which means that a lot of light would get lost "inside" the reflector?

If I am not wrong, efficience in this context means the grade of ability of the reflector to reflect the light (e.g. gavita pro=96%)?

As you admit, every reflector design will cause a certain amount of lost light. So is it your conviction, that even in small rooms/tents (and even more in bigger rooms), the gavita pro fixtures might lose more light to the walls as other reflectors on the market, but the gavitas are compensating this lost with the higher effeciency of their reflector design?

In your previous posts, you write that in an optimal setuped room with 1000W Gavita pro fixtures, you will loose 4% of light to the reflector and about 10% to the walls. So in a room like this, the amount of light that reaches the crop, is about 86% of all the light that leaves the bulb?

[offtopic]The Gavita Triplestar was solely developed for the grow-market and not for the horticulture?[offtopic]

I believe you that some average joes thinks the development of a reflector is an easy task, which it surely isn't. I believe you that there are a lot of factors that an engineer has to consider when developing a reflector.

What the ambitioned grower wants at the end is a fixture that gets the most out of the bulb and a reflector that sends as much as possible to the plants from what he gets from the bulb in a uniform pattern But i guess 86% is very acceptable

 

[whazzup]

with a wide reflector in a small room you will lose light to your walls. The smaller the room, the larger the wall influence: the bigger the room, the less walls you have. The true potential of such lamps is in overlapping grows, they are not specifically developed for single use, but to be as efficient and uniform as possible in a multi-lamp environment. Reflector efficiency is the total reflector output divided by the lamp output. with this you you know exactly how much light will reach your crop. I can't say that the Gavita loses more light to the walls, it depends a lot on the situation. Moreover you need some light on your walls to get a good uniformity. I use the 10% rue of thumb for small rooms, as this is (on the low side) about what gets lost with an average reflective material. A large reflector with diffuse reflective material will indeed probably be losing more light by reflections in the reflector. If you don't know the reflector efficiency (which is different from the reflective material specifications!) that's hard to compare. Based on the improved results I have seen from growers I do think that we have the edge here, not only because of the lamp.

TripleStar was indeed developed for the hobby grow market.

 

[hydrodreams]

[....]TripleStar was indeed developed for the hobby grow market.

Ok. So it's also your intention to be competitive with products meant to be solely for the Grow-market.

Well, in that case I guess Gavita would have developed already a specific small-tent-reflector if such one would perform better in small tents than any of the already existing Gavita Products....

Thanks anyway

 

[whazzup]

You guess wrong . Indeed the TripleStar deals with that problem, as it has adjustable reflectors to make it wider or deeper to keep your light from the walls, specifically in a multi-reflector environment (overlap in the middle, deep near the walls). We are not going to venture into throw over uniformity just to make it fit a single lamp installation. As demonstrated by your peers, not having an optimal uniformity is the least of your problems .

This is the TripleStar throw. That can be symmetric or asymmetric.

This is how the light of a HPS lamp spreads. Hence the shadow of the framewire:

 

[hydrodreams]

[....]We are not going to venture into throw over uniformity just to make it fit a single lamp installation.[...]

I am sure nobody expects Gavita to tailor their remote reflectors to a single-lamp-installation and make everybody who has more than 1 lamp run away because of sacrificing uniformity. Sure not.

What I tried to express was, that if it was technically possible to develop a remote reflector that performs better in a single-lamp-installation than any of the already existing Gavita- reflectors, Gavita would have already widened their lineup with such a reflector to please any type of grower in the best possible way.
But as you mentioned before, if a reflector should light exactly 1x1m, the engineer of such a reflector will be facing several problems.

Since when are the Pro fixtures and the triplestar available on the grow-market again?

, Hydrodreams

 

[lee van keef]

I'm running the 1000 pro units right now - they seem to be kicking ass.

When I was dialing the empty room temps I had them running at 1000w on a bare floor. I turned one up to 1150 and the spectrum was noticeabley bluer next to other lights at 1000.

Is this addressed anywhere? I took a quick look at the other thread that was linked in this one but it was 20+ pages. Anybody know if it's in there before I comb through it?

thanks for all the info whazzup

 

[spliffy]

I'm considering upgrading my 600w to a 1000w for my DR120. Would this run too hot in my 4x4ft tent?

 

[Green Devil]

I'm considering upgrading my 600w to a 1000w for my DR120. Would this run too hot in my 4x4ft tent?

The 1000w (which actually goes up to 1250w) would get the tent way too hot in case you don't have good ventilation.

 

[944s2]

I'm considering upgrading my 600w to a 1000w for my DR120. Would this run too hot in my 4x4ft tent?

spliffy,,beware of diminishing returns,,too much power in too little space,,sometimes less is more in our field,,,peace and safe growing s2

 

[OBSoul33t]

does anyone know if the phillips DE bulbs can be used in the vertical position ?

 

[spliffy]

The 1000w (which actually goes up to 1250w) would get the tent way too hot in case you don't have good ventilation.

I thought it went up to 1150 watts? I've got a 6" low power intake and 6" high power extraction. Is this good enough for a 1Kw?

 

[Scottish Research]

They don't work in my outlets.

How does it light a 5 x 5 ft area?




R.Fortune

 

[whazzup]

yeps. it's 1150 max in boost setting and 4x4 is a bit small. I've seen people do it but do not recommend it. 5x5 is a lot easier to get good results. Less light on a larger surface is always easier.

as menitoned before horizontal use only.

 

[izzywozzywizzy]

Hi, my first light was poot .I'm very keen on these new lights as i see all the dutch growers have them on open grow,and you guys don't piss about.my question is if i have the 1000 and I switch it to 600 or 1150 on the ballast do I have to switch bulbs as well or does the same bulb stay in so i don't have to buy 3 bulbs .is it heavy like the old poots as I would fear it might pull down the rigging ,cheers wazzup .

 

[lee van keef]

Hey Izzy.

You don't change out the bulb.

Whazzup, not sure if you saw my question a few posts up - Is there any info on spectrum variation between wattage settings?

 

[JohnWayne]

@whazzup: I bought a Gavita PRO1000DE and im going to use it in a grow 1.7mx1.3m with the ceiling at 2.4m.
I have enough air circulation to keep it at 1150 and also wanted to know what are the ideal height to run it. How much can I grow my plants (aka which is the useful light penetration?), and which distance from the top of the colas I have to keep the lamp to get the best results?
TY in advance

 

[Bobbo4200]