Beta Test Team
Member
Read the links in my signature. And the other threads I've started. Also, I would say you're the one lashing out (and posting walls of opinionated text).
GAVITA Pro 1000 DE
- Thread starter TacomaComa
- Start date
Newest Philips/gavita bulb is rated initially @2100 umol. What I have yet to understand is if that output is only @1000 watts? , and what about when the bulb is @1150 watts? Is it just burning hotter,brighter, but still at 2100 umol or what...?
I was wondering this myself. When a lamp states 1.98 ppf or 1980umol/s/m2 where and how is this measurement mad? 1 point 1 meter from lamp?
Beta Test Team
Member
HUGE:
Those values are measured in an integrating sphere, so distance to canopy is not a factor. That is also why there's no area listed in the Gavita spec of "2,100 umol/s," which is umol/s in PAR range, while "PPF" (and PPFD and PAR) is umol/s/m2 in PAR range.
Lamp specs don't list radiation output by area or distance, that's only for measurements at canopy using a quantum sensor, or math (computer modeling), or lux converted to umol/s/m2 by the lamp spectrum: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=303009.
If you look at Gavita's website for the 1000W DE HPS they list "2,100 umol/s" (which in this context means it's in PAR range), they don't list 2,100 umol/s/m2. And Philips is wrong when they list "PPF" in their specs, because PPF is defined by area. Philips should list it as "umol/s in PAR range," or "radiant PPF," etc., but not "PPF."
So, lamp specs have nothing to due at all with distance to canopy. And distance to canopy (and canopy area) is only a factor for PPF (which is the same thing as PPFD and PAR), which cannot be measured or calculated by the lamp manufacturer (Philips) without more context from the grower - and if Philips did list lamp spec by distance to canopy it would no longer be umol/s.
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/proline/item/pro-1000e-de-us.html
Those values are measured in an integrating sphere, so distance to canopy is not a factor. That is also why there's no area listed in the Gavita spec of "2,100 umol/s," which is umol/s in PAR range, while "PPF" (and PPFD and PAR) is umol/s/m2 in PAR range.
Lamp specs don't list radiation output by area or distance, that's only for measurements at canopy using a quantum sensor, or math (computer modeling), or lux converted to umol/s/m2 by the lamp spectrum: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=303009.
If you look at Gavita's website for the 1000W DE HPS they list "2,100 umol/s" (which in this context means it's in PAR range), they don't list 2,100 umol/s/m2. And Philips is wrong when they list "PPF" in their specs, because PPF is defined by area. Philips should list it as "umol/s in PAR range," or "radiant PPF," etc., but not "PPF."
So, lamp specs have nothing to due at all with distance to canopy. And distance to canopy (and canopy area) is only a factor for PPF (which is the same thing as PPFD and PAR), which cannot be measured or calculated by the lamp manufacturer (Philips) without more context from the grower - and if Philips did list lamp spec by distance to canopy it would no longer be umol/s.
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/proline/item/pro-1000e-de-us.html
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Beta Test Team
Member
If the power input to the lamp is increased past 1000W then the radiant energy output from the lamp within PAR range would increase past 2,100 umol/s.
Beta Test Team
Member
Gavita is saying the radiant energy output by the lamp (in all directions) totals 1,950 umol/s in PAR range (or for the 1000W DE HPS they list 2,100 umol/s in PAR range).
They're mixing up the definition of PPF. Making the same error Philips is making. The spec values listed by Gavita and Philips have nothing to do with distance to canopy or area (meter squared).
This confusion for growers is why I keep making the point to whazzup that PPF is not the same thing as umol/s in PAR range.
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Ok.
well if we do the math on this particular [email protected] umol per watt, running it at 1150w setting makes it's output 2415 umols?(2.1x1150=2415)
If so, why is that number not mentioned on any marketing publication or anywhere for that matter?
We are on the same page.
Was just trying a different approach to getting the point across.
What beta wrote is on point.
They arent saying the bulb gives off 1950-2100umol/s¹/m² rather they are saying the bulb gives off 1950-2100umol/s¹. They don't define the area, or the height from canopy.
Beta Test Team
Member
That's what I thought was well, you made a perfect post about the issue: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6854196&postcount=618. Sorry if I was redundant.We are on the same page.
Was just trying a different approach to getting the point across.
By the way, how are you superscripting here?
Thanks!
Beta Test Team
Member
I don't know. But I think rives or Jhhnn wrote powering a lamp at greater than its listed wattage reduces lamp useful lifespan (don't hold me to that, I could be misremembering).
Rabbledabble710
New member
I know this is off topic to what's being said but can anyone with experience give me some input please?
I have a 23x19ft room with 8 gavitas pro's. The gavitas are hung at 10ft. There are 4 flood trays that are 4x8, and about a foot off the ground to manage drainage. With 2 gavitas over each 4x8 tray running at 100% power. I estimate by day 60 the canopy will be about 3 to 4 feet away from the lights.
So each gavita is over a 4x4 area (5x5 area at canopy level?). With 6 plants per light. Haven't seen any light bleaching at 3 weeks in. No burns, the AC runs well keeping it at 75 degrees.
This is my first run with the gavitas! Can anyone give advice on my set up? Thanks
I have a 23x19ft room with 8 gavitas pro's. The gavitas are hung at 10ft. There are 4 flood trays that are 4x8, and about a foot off the ground to manage drainage. With 2 gavitas over each 4x8 tray running at 100% power. I estimate by day 60 the canopy will be about 3 to 4 feet away from the lights.
So each gavita is over a 4x4 area (5x5 area at canopy level?). With 6 plants per light. Haven't seen any light bleaching at 3 weeks in. No burns, the AC runs well keeping it at 75 degrees.
This is my first run with the gavitas! Can anyone give advice on my set up? Thanks
Chemdawggy Dawg
Active member
You need more lights or a smaller room. The lights should only be 3 to 4 ft off the plants. Each light only covers around 20 sq ft, you have 437. 437/20 is 21 lights. You are way underlit. These lights are good but not that good. You need to only use 1/2 of that room at the very most. Otherwise I doubt you will be satisfied. Have a nice day.
I can cover 25sqft easily with a single ended bulb. If these give 10% more par 30sqft should be good.
Beta Test Team
Member
While overall radiant energy is one issue, the other, and I would argue more important issue, is radiant energy uniformity as it relates to irradiance (PPF). So even though one Gavita could be used for a larger area, those plants in that area would get dissimilar irradiance, thereby, likely, leading to reduced yield and growth rate (due to local activity of that absorbed radiation) vs. having both high irradiance and high irradiance uniformity (which comes with smaller area per fixture, especially due to Gavita's poor uniformity per fixture - its hot spot).
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=297147
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=297147
Beta Test Team
Member
Buy a good lux meter (and convert lux to PPF using the HPS DE SPD https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=303009), or, buy a good quantum sensor (not from Apogee or SunSystems), and dial in your fixture number and placement that way. So you can make sure you're not providing too low or too great irradiance, while also providing high uniformity over all plants (so all plants get similar irradiance).
Guessing and taking peoples' word from the Internet I think is not the best way to go. It's always better to measure irradiance yourself, in your space.
If I had one wish for growers, it would be that they release a good radiation meter (be it lux for $150 to $500, or quantum for $800 to $1,000) is just as important as a good pH meter ($150 to $500) and a good EC meter ($250 to $600).
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Chemdawggy Dawg
Active member
You are right about the 5x5 area, that's how I use them.
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Whats wrong with the Apogee Quantum meter?
Reel Tight
New member
Anyone have any experience with the el1 controller? I recently purchased it with 12 of the new 750de and I'm having a few problems with them. For one I have no led on the bottom during lights on, second I have 4 lights that are all On different circuits that won't fire. All the others work and they are in the middle of the daisy train string when I unplug them from the power and plug them back in they fire up.. emailed gavita couple days ago with no response I'm contemplating returning the whole lot of them and the el1 back to the shop if I can't get this sorted out quick
N
noyd666
some where in this thread somebody was having sim troubles, factory was supposed to have fixed? not good. was with the 1000 with first controller.
