Gas Prices Are Insane!!!!!

[mrcreosote]

Disco sez:
We could nationalize US oil but capitalist executives would mount public disinformation campaigns about the perils of socialism/communism/fascism - all the isms into one, great big jism to bukkakke the airwaves and divide Americans.
-------------------------------
Jeez Disco...
What happened? Too many sugar donuts this morning?

Usually you try to hide your rampant socialistic tendencies behind a mask of reasonable sounding (if incomprehensible) blather but this time you really took the bull by the horns and dropped all pretense.

Such a grand idea, nationalizing a whole industry!

We can do it too!

Just as soon as we abolish all private property rights everywhere and cede that ownership to the State. What a marvelous concept. I'm surprised nobody thought of this unique approach before.

Oh. Wait a minute...I think they have...silly me.

If anyone had reasonable doubt to what people of his persuasion mean when they speak of solving the problems facing us, this should give a big clue to what the desired end game is.

I suggest if anyone is enjoying the benefits of bukkake...

It's you, my friend.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I guess we'll have to hose you down with context.

If you happened to read the exchange, you'd pick up the (I'll paraphrase) "Why aren't we making more on our mineral rights? It's our damn oil. Must be the fucking gub giving it away to their oil cronies. Sunufabitch!"

You also missed the context that could be gathered from my post alone. I don't have a dog in that fight. But we'd have to consider nationalizing if we couldn't negotiate better mineral extraction fees and or better residual contracts.


You think private landowners get a good deal? Iraq kicked us out of their country for merely offering a typical western oil contract. As written in red crayon and states, "We invaded your country so we could buy your oil way cheaper than you'd like to sell it. Now check out these fine, Chinese beads..."

I get it, mrc. As long as capitalism is free enough to rip folks off, it's all good.

 

[BabyHuey]

A very interesting short examination of the mechanics of oil pricing.

http://usa-wethepeople.com/2012/02/how-do-gas-prices-increase/

Is that partisan blog the best you could find to support your argument?
Nothing more than an opinion from some anonymous blogger.

 

[mrcreosote]

As usual with your comments, I have difficulties following the butterflies of your mind as they flitter hither and yon with wild abandon but I have no doubt as to the flowers they seek.
The context is your statement. Perhaps you might have left unspoken this 'context' of which you speak but I am privy only to the thoughts you state.

The facts are these:
Oil companies negotiate drilling rights on private property with the owner of said rights whether they belong to the surface owner or not. If the deal is not to the owners liking he will refuse the offer and tender offers to others in the field. This is a voluntary exchange. If the contract is not adhered to then the owner leasing those oil rights can seek redress in a court of law.
Yes, he can get screwed but not for long, and that company that did so would obviously have a difficult time securing new leases or activating older ones.
Nobody likes doing business with a rip-off asshole. Simple.

Drilling rights on public lands are put to the bid process and the highest bidder takes these unless undue influence is brought by outside forces (campaign money recipients) to favor one company over another. This would be actionable criminal coercion outside the lawful process.
Gaining the right to drill on 'public' (ie. Govt.) property, the revenues derived from the contract disappear into the gaping maw of Govt. expenditures never to be seen again. Govt. claims they are returning the revenue 'to the people' for not taxing you the same amount to make those expenditures. Clever, no? But, in essence, they are telling a truth. Revenues were received, revenues were spent. End of story.

Now, if I read your intent correctly, you feel that these revenues should be disbursed among the population at large and if not, then you would eagerly dispense with private property rights on the whole and nationalize the entire drilling and oil production industry. Would this also include the thousands of ancillary businesses related to production or just the owners of the actual drilling rig? As you may not be aware, that often these are leased equipment owned by private contractors.

Not a thought about how this theft would affect grandma's portfolio that includes some Exxon shares in her paltry retirement fund? Or millions of other shareholders in the oil industry?
Would you be happy to pick their savings clean as well?
Aren't these people the 'common folk' you claim to care about so much? That would also include Union and teachers, first responders and many other folks retirement savings too.

It would be nice if it was only the cigar chomping evil oil company execs that would feel your wrath in the fevered fantasy you construct, but it ain't reality.

Speaking of which...
If you know of any primarily American owned oil companies paying less than market prices for oil leases in the Middle East I would love to see definitive proof.
This is admittedly beyond my scope of knowledge as I am not privy to these arrangements, but with all the claims of oil theft that have been bandied about for years on end ad nauseum I have yet to see a sensible explanation of how this theft occurred.
Secret tankers of oil roaming the seas at night to hidden destinations?
Underground bunkers filled with millions of gallons under Bush's ranch?

Should I also fear Jewish Masonic Illuminati members who machinations make oil disappear while snacking on blood soaked matzoh crackers?

I digress. I will grant you that your argument to nationalize Americas oil production has a certain appeal to you and your fellow travelers if only for one reason;

The amount of work to produce a few dollar check to every American for their 'fair share'
will keep your beloved leviathan busy and thankful all the way to Obama's third term as President.
While they also cook up a new tax to get that money and more back.

Yours in IC (if no other) fraternity,
mrc

 

[Bullfrog44]

Filled up for $4.39 a gal today, Ouch! Nothing like paying $80 a fill up.

 

[mrcreosote]

Is that partisan blog the best you could find to support your argument?
Nothing more than an opinion from some anonymous blogger.

I have no argument. I presented a well written article on how oil is actually priced amidst a sea of conjecture for folks who are interested in such things. I do agree with his conclusions.
All that money printing has to have an effect and we're seeing it in pricing. Inflation.

I actually have no idea if it is a partisan blog or not. I simply read a rather brief but in depth deconstruction on how oil is priced and was impressed by it's thoroughness.
Inflation is truly a bi-partisan issue. It affects everyone but takes its largest toll on the poor who can least afford to pay more at the pump.

No argument about the articles content? Facts or figures wrong?
Misplaced methodology? Have you got a better breakdown of commodity pricing forces that we should be aware of?

So I can reasonably assume that your objection lies only that the articles placement is in a website whose tone does not meet your approval.

I owe you some thanks for presenting such a weak sauce objection to the point which is the article itself. Since you bring nothing to refute its content I'll simply assume you didn't read it. I reached that site from an article in Zero-hedge, a very knowledgeable site on finance and markets.

Now I'll have to go back and see if there are more gems to mine there.
If people like you hate it without reading anything in it...

I'm sure I will enjoy it.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

As usual with your comments, I have difficulties following the butterflies of your mind as they flitter hither and yon with wild abandon but I have no doubt as to the flowers they seek.
The context is your statement. Perhaps you might have left unspoken this 'context' of which you speak but I am privy only to the thoughts you state.

Hey chump, you edited the post.

Exxon has a spot in Alaska they're not drilling. They have the lease but they're not active. Could be because they can't proceed w/o paying what Alaska wants. The problem is Exxon has a lot more money than measly state budgets to tie up the courts. Alaska would like to lease to someone other than Exxon but they haven't managed to run Exxon off the spot.

Exxon won't exploit what is estimated as the richest oil deposit in the US. Alaska doesn't want Exxon to stall yet Exxon doesn't want to pay what Alaska wants for their oil. Exxon is able to tie this up in court, potentially long enough for Alaska's state budget to cough, rendering Exxon's wishes. (I'm simply paraphrasing the post you say I didn't contextualize.)

I might not have used your words but I basically presented both sides of this situation w/o indicating which side should prevail.

Whenever you have that impulse to strike back, read again.

Doodero wants more mineral royalties. You have two options. You either strike the deal you want with the oil companies or you nationalize your oil fields. Take a look at what oil companies pay to extract oil out of the ground. It's peanuts.

Besides, you can't quote anything that you're suggesting I posted. Another rendition of how things are supposed to be might not exactly address the pros and cons of either side of the issue.

 

[SpasticGramps]

The price of oil isn't going up. The value of fiat is going down. There's your insanity.

What's more insane? Everyone is going to debase their fiat to keep up with Benocide Bernake and the Inkjets.

Ya'll ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Ultra Current]

This is the beginning of the end. Its a great time to be shorting the stock market. After the new election will be the great crash.

 

[ZoSo]

The new commuter... (well, a similar one anyway)

50mpg. 12 second 1/4 mile. Torquey v-twin. Fun but not scary like a supersport.

And it tops out at 130 so you're not tempted to run from the cops.

 

[woolybear]

This is the beginning of the end. Its a great time to be shorting the stock market. After the new election will be the great crash.

woogah... time to buy some skf options... when's the hammer going to fall is the question

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

This is the beginning of the end.

The end of the Republican party as the party of fear and loathing. Hispanics already generate an additional 2% to the voter roles every 4 years. By 2020, Hispanics will expand from 1/4 of the electorate to 1/3. In 2030, whites will no longer constitute 50% of the electorate.

Republicans will win future majorities. But not until they tweak the part that makes them appear intolerant.

Too many social issues.

 

[SmokeyTheGrower]

The end of the Republican party as the party of fear and loathing. Hispanics already generate an additional 2% to the voter roles every 4 years. By 2020, Hispanics will expand from 1/4 of the electorate to 1/3. In 2030, whites will no longer constitute 50% of the electorate.

Republicans will win future majorities. But not until they tweak the part that makes them appear intolerant.

Too many social issues.

I try to understand the point of view of republicans but they just suck so bad. Just selfish and ignorant much off the time. Intolerant and racist as well.

 

[toketronix]

I presented a well written article on how oil is actually priced amidst a sea of conjecture for folks who are interested in such things. I do agree with his conclusions.
All that money printing has to have an effect and we're seeing it in pricing. Inflation.

he begins his analysis in 2008 around the same time as 'quantitive easing' ..yet the price of oil was rising year on year from the 9 years before, back when it was only $10 barrel ..it's now $124 barrel

there is a very interesting event that occured around the time this price spike started.... can you see it in the graph?

 

[VirginHarvester]

If Fox is where you get your info from then you need a new credible source.

Well sure I do. I get my news from different sources. I can think for myself.

TARP was/is/and always will be Bushes Baby. It was half spent by the time Obama got elect in Nov.

Obama came into office with more Goldman players around him than Bush. It did not matter which of the two were in office. Had Obama been inaugurated six months earlier he would still have been on board, no doubt about it.

Don't you remember when even though they didn't have to the Bush administration asked Obama to encourage Congress to okay the 2nd half of the money?

The stimulus was Obama's to claim no doubt there but when you try to distort the facts the way you do it just makes it all look like bullshit.

I'm not sure what facts I distorted. My claim is that under Obama and with his approval we have pursued specific monetary policies that weaken the dollar which drives our cost of gasoline higher. Is that a distortion?


You know the borrowing continues with no end in sight, which dilutes the strength of the dollar:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...t-20110607_1_national-debt-debt-ceiling-alarm
http://netrightdaily.com/2012/02/ob...-trillion-no-real-cuts-to-speak-of-in-budget/
http://lonelyconservative.com/2012/01/obama-needs-to-borrow-another-1-2-trillion-asap/

You know about Quantitative Easing:

Quantitative Easing, Oil Prices And Recessions

Yesterday's post The Fed's QE2 — Speeding Our Demise described the longer term effects of a new round of money printing by the Federal Reserve. A weaker dollar will be a direct outcome, but a weaker doallar has consequences which policymakers have either not taken into account or simply don't care about. One consequence will be to drive speculative money into commodities trading.

http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2010/10/quantitative-easing-oil-prices-and-recessions.html

The point is, gas has continued to increase, almost doubled in past few years. The President hasn't addressed it and one way or another made it worse. Prices are going to continue to rise and I imagine they are hoping this weak dollar policy strengthens the economy later, somehow. It's a hell of a gamble especially when on the front end the gas pumps are making us certainly poorer.

He just wants four more years to get started.

 

[HempKat]

Well sure I do. I get my news from different sources. I can think for myself.

That remains to be seen.

 

[BabyHuey]

I have no argument. I presented a well written article on how oil is actually priced amidst a sea of conjecture for folks who are interested in such things. I do agree with his conclusions.
All that money printing has to have an effect and we're seeing it in pricing. Inflation.

I actually have no idea if it is a partisan blog or not. I simply read a rather brief but in depth deconstruction on how oil is priced and was impressed by it's thoroughness.
Inflation is truly a bi-partisan issue. It affects everyone but takes its largest toll on the poor who can least afford to pay more at the pump.

No argument about the articles content? Facts or figures wrong?
Misplaced methodology? Have you got a better breakdown of commodity pricing forces that we should be aware of?

So I can reasonably assume that your objection lies only that the articles placement is in a website whose tone does not meet your approval.

I owe you some thanks for presenting such a weak sauce objection to the point which is the article itself. Since you bring nothing to refute its content I'll simply assume you didn't read it. I reached that site from an article in Zero-hedge, a very knowledgeable site on finance and markets.

Now I'll have to go back and see if there are more gems to mine there.
If people like you hate it without reading anything in it...

I'm sure I will enjoy it.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention.

Let me get this straight?
You post a link to an anonymous blog
on a site started by a 67 year old Tea Party supporter you found
by following a link from another blog(Zero-hedge) that is well known as a haven for conspiracies theories and shows all blogs
as originating from a character in Fight Club .Yet somehow the
onus is on me to discredit this steaming pile of partisan rhetoric?



Some winners from Economics9698's blog.

Suppliers “speculate” the same as consumers do. And this is where Obama plays a role in gas prices TODAY.
If oil producers see the Obama Administration doing everything in its power to suppress supply,
no new leases, regulations, more taxes, then it will have a effect on the price TODAY.

On the flip side if the president announced 100% support for the oil industry, drilling on a first come,
first serve basis, prices would drop TODAY based on future expected increase in supply.

The US does not(and never will ) produce enough crude to significantly alter world prices or supplies.Increased exportation and depletion of US oil resources as international oil companies profit with minimal benefit to US residents is a far likelier result.

I will submit to you that the biggest factor in the increase in gas prices is the Federal Reserve
and the Obama Administrations reckless spending policies, followed by increase demand in the Pacific Rim countries,
then global political tensions, and finally the Obama Administrations obstructionist energy policies designed to restrict
supply from Canada and the United States, in that order.

Anyone who directly lays the current price increases of oil to Tarp or inflationary FED policy while minimizing the effect of speculation
and Middle East tensions is simply a partisan hack unable to diverge from their talking points.
No doubt these do play some part but the strong value of the dollar(yuan and yen also BTW) is actually having an insulating effect on US gas prices.
Erroneously claiming TARP as Obama's spending
without any mention of Bush's culpability also reflects a mind set
that is biased and willing to avoid facts in pursuit of rhetoric.
Ignoring other major contributions to national debt(unpaid wars,Bush tax cuts)
while concentrating solely on Tarp also reflects badly on his credibility.

Of course I could check statistics,his professional background, or any other corroborating evidence to support his positions
if he had included any of those in his blog

As for people like me?

You mean people who require actual articles and sources
as opposed to someone who blindly accepts biased and anonymous blogs posted by
hacks with an obvious political agenda on some 67 year old grandma's blog site simply because they support their own viewpoints?


Weak Sauce indeed.Bwahahaha

I agree you would probably like it over there with the other
lemmings mindlessly parroting misinformation and opinion as fact.
Feel free to spend your time on those types of sites with others who will blindly accept whatever pablum you post as actual information.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Let me get this straight?
You post a link to an anonymous blog
on a site started by a 67 year old Tea Party supporter you found
by following a link from another blog(Zero-hedge) that is well known as a haven for conspiracies theories and shows all blogs
as originating from a character in Fight Club .Yet somehow the
onus is on me to discredit this steaming pile of partisan rhetoric?

... Anyone who directly lays the current price increases of oil to Tarp or inflationary FED policy while minimizing the effect of speculation and Middle East tensions is simply a partisan hack unable to diverge from their talking points.


... Erroneously claiming TARP as Obama's spending without any mention of Bush's culpability also reflects a mind set that is biased and willing to avoid facts in pursuit of rhetoric. Ignoring other major contributions to national debt(unpaid wars,Bush tax cuts)
while concentrating solely on Tarp also reflects badly on his credibility.

... You mean people who require actual articles and sources
as opposed to someone who blindly accepts biased and anonymous blogs posted by hacks with an obvious political agenda on some 67 year old grandma's blog site simply because they support their own viewpoints?

... I agree you would probably like it over there with the other
lemmings mindlessly parroting misinformation and opinion as fact.
Feel free to spend your time on those types of sites with others who will blindly accept whatever pablum you post as actual information.

... not limited to evangelicals

The Republican's Biblical Boondoggle

Frank Schaeffer
Posted: 02/27/2012 11:23 am

The base of the Republican Party is to be pitied more than feared. They have literally been conditioned to fear their own brains. Their religious indoctrination has actually destroyed their ability to reason. No wonder they eagerly believe in Fox News' alternative reality.

Outside observers here in the US and overseas shake their heads in wonderment over just how it is that so many Republicans seem to literally come from somewhere else, say another planet.

"How on earth could they believe" fill-in-the-blank: that global warming is not real, that evolution never happened, that an embryo is a "person," that the right to carry a gun equals "security," that President Obama is a socialist, communist, Muslim, the Antichrist, soft on terror, a dangerous man, not a Christian, the wrong sort of Christian or that history text books should reflect America's "Christian country" status...
or...

that Santorum could ever become president!

To help readers understand the mindset that leads to the embrace of falsehood as truth maybe I can help. I am a former insider of the religious right and the evangelical movement as I describe in my book Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back.

Insider Fact One, the backbone of the Republican Party is the American Evangelical community and the conservative Roman Catholic community.

Insider Fact Two, American Evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics are raised from birth to reject common sense, learning and progress in favor of a literal interpretation of the Bible.

How do these facts contribute to the state in which the ever more fringe Republican Party finds itself in?

Simple: if your base is a group that has been trained to reject truth in favor of faith in faith, they will believe anything because rejection of what "everyone else believes" is a bedrock article of faith and your very identity.

Let's be blunt: science has rendered a literal interpretation of any scripture, be it the Bible, Koran, whatever, as impossible. For many religious people this means that they have sought out deeper meanings in a spirituality that depends on a more intuitive sense of meaning and purpose than a slavish attempt to follow texts that have been simply disproven.

But for another group -- the fundamentalists of all religions -- modernity has been "answered" by opting out or attacking facts as lies.

Enter Madrassas of all kinds, literal -- as in Pakistan -- or virtual -- as in the Evangelical home school movement and private school movement. Enter the Evangelical TV and radio and publishing industries and mega churches as personality cults. Enter the "conservative" Roman Catholic bishops, cut off from their own far more tolerant (and liberal) flocks.

The rise of the religious right within religion is designed intentionally to isolate, indoctrinate and "protect" from challenging ideas. Fundamentalist leaders, be they conservative bishops or evangelical leaders, do this because actual true information is no longer helpful to the fundamentalist religious cause. So that cause becomes about controlling the minds of the faithful by cutting them off from other opinions.

Having circled the wagons and gone inward, the American evangelical community and conservative Roman Catholics now speak their own language, have their own culture, and they despise and fear the country they dwell in as virtual strangers.

This is a self-imposed exile.

But when general elections come along the evangelical community, Roman Catholic bishops' et al, like some hibernating creature, are forced (as it were) from their cave. For a brief moment they must interact with the larger world in the full light of day.

When the fundamentalist, anti-modern community emerges the rest of the population gets a rare look at how the conservative reactionary "brain" of fundamentalism works. All of a sudden the larger world is reminded that there really are people like the ultra-conservative Roman Catholic bishops who actually think contraceptives are wicked things. All of a sudden the larger world is reminded that right here amongst us are people who believe that Satan is attacking us, that we should attack Iran to make Israel safe for Jesus' return, that a sperm and egg joined 5 seconds ago is a "person", that evolution is a secularist plot, that the Federal Reserve is of the devil, etc., etc.

And the cry goes up (once again) "How could they believe this stuff?"

How indeed?

It takes training for years to reject what is true. That training starts in a million Sunday schools and carries on through home schooling or private religious "education" and is completed in a hundred alternative Christian "colleges." It is sustained by a network of magazines like Christianity Today, World and many more. It has its own celebrity culture with heroes that no one outside the religious ghetto has heard of but who are selling literally millions of books to their followers.

Is it any wonder that a bedrock article of faith in the Republican Party is now that public schools are evil? Is it any wonder Santorum says he objects to President Obama saying all kids should work to go to college? In fact anything public and open to accountability is to be feared. Education is feared most of all.

All public space is hated because in that space, from infrastructure projects to the Federal Reserve to the UN to all government agencies, there has to be an acceptable baseline of fact that everyone buys into. Universities and the media -- both places where ideas are discussed openly -- are hated most of all.

So public space is demonized because by its very nature it falls outside of the control of the "mullahs," -- i.e. the pastors and bishops and celebrity religious leaders that are fighting off facts to maintain their control of their flocks. And the government is demonized because it imposes a rule of law over and above the Bible's mandates.

And that is why "They" -- the bedrock supporters of the Republican Party -- do what they do and allow a Santorum to emerge as a serious candidate. The base of the Republican Party don't live here in our world anymore, they have moved to the Bronze Age and like it there.

The problem is that the "conservatives" (who are actually revolutionaries) are not content to just live in their private space and indoctrinate their children. They want to make the rest of us reject facts and move into their time machine with them and travel back to a world safe from truth.

And the far right of the evangelical movement and far right Roman Catholic bishops are also at war with their more moderate people.

So by no means am I saying that all religious people fit the description of the fanatics made here. But to the extent that the evangelical/Roman Catholic fanatical wing of American religion has taken over the Republican Party their motto seems to be -- lies are truth! From the Creationist Museum to the latest falsehood about how the Dutch are killing their elderly or that Obama is "anti-religion" because he wants all women to have access to contraception, the reaction is to just dig the falsehood hole deeper and deeper.

Brains can be altered by how they are abused and misused from early childhood on. In that sense the evangelical and conservative Roman Catholic fundamentalists are damaged people. They are hurting and lost and lashing out at reality itself. And they are presiding over the destruction of the Republican Party.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/the-republicans-biblical-_b_1302127.html

I'll add what the writer appears to miss - People like Frank Luntz, Karl Rove, Lee Atwater and Pat Buchanan ensure that tactics such as focus groups and public opinion polls will forever seek the message that exploits fear and loathing in human beings.

 

[GET MO]

Man... and I commute too... This is gonna suck. Its crazy how 35 bucks of shell works longer then 35 bucks of ampm gas, even tho you dont get as much it lasts longer. Ive tested this multiple times. Thats on the cheap(er) stuff. Wonder why that is tho when they both say 87?

 

[Brother Bear]

Gas is something i do not think about or stress over really. I pull in, fill up, and leave. I don't check the price, i don't compare prices to the stations across town. I just don't care at all.
Why ?
What the hell can i do about it ? Absolutely nothing but stress or worry. So i don't think on it. Keeps me personally happier anyhow.