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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Norkali,
I've got an organic grow, so, no orthene for me. That doesn't mean I'm surrendering. I'll keep fighting them. How long has it been since you treated? -granger
Yaamon,
Go here: http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/mycotrol-o.php
and click on "Rates for Small Volumes." 4 tsp/gal. max rate. -granger
I've got an organic grow, so, no orthene for me. That doesn't mean I'm surrendering. I'll keep fighting them. How long has it been since you treated? -granger
Yaamon,
Go here: http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/mycotrol-o.php
and click on "Rates for Small Volumes." 4 tsp/gal. max rate. -granger
yerboyblue
Member
I use Botaniguard, basically the same thing, at about 10-15ml per gallon for the first soak, and then 5ml per gallon for each water after that. Gets spendy real quick. It is somewhat effective, but not nearly enough for these things. I kept the population down on one run doing this, but they weren't gone. I would recommend saving the bottle until you get some other stuff to run at the same time with it, like Imid or Orthene.
ballplayer 2
Active member
Norkali and Yerboyblue, I have a couple of questions. What application rate are you using for the Orthene and Riptide applications? Are you tank mixing Riptide/Orthene, or applying them separately?
Do you find Riptide's water base preferable to oil based Pyrethrin formulations such as Excite-R or Evergreen? Why?
Lastly are Orthene and Acephate the same thing? I searched Orthene and got hits that included Acephate 97.
Thank you for your time and assistance.
Do you find Riptide's water base preferable to oil based Pyrethrin formulations such as Excite-R or Evergreen? Why?
Lastly are Orthene and Acephate the same thing? I searched Orthene and got hits that included Acephate 97.
Thank you for your time and assistance.
Norkali
Active member
I treated around early/mid June...so that's nearly 5 months of RA-free soil. I understand you on wanting to keep it organic....I wished I could have found a way as well.....but chemicals were required for my infestation, in my opinion.
Tank-mix and dunk. Props go to Eclipse for the info....for he is the guy who helped me get rid of these satan-spawn finally.
As for the oil-base vs. water-base: water-based is always better for a plants rootzone, as the oil doesn't cover and suffocate the roots. Less oil = better.
Yes, Orthene is a brand name of Acephate if I am not mistaken.
Bonus: I only needed ONE application in my quest to completely eradicate these things, but one must also know that I had ready to go Met-52 inoculated soil, steam cleaning of area and containers, and also nearly the entire laundry-list of aforementioned products and solutions that had been tried first: Azamax/trol, SM-90, EWC tea, diatomaceous earth, SNS 203, Merit 75, stickyfoot, sticky traps, Pyganic EC 5.0 II, Botanigard WP, Botanigard ES (yes, both,) nematodes (multiple species,) and I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two as well.....but you get the point. None of those worked; Orthene/Riptide (+ steam cleaning & Met-52) did.
WOW.....look at the first page......bali_man had it all figured out from the get-go. I have already done the needful and given him +rep for his post.....if this ends up helping you at all, please spread some +rep love to bali_man.
yerboyblue
Member
Orthene and acephate are the same things, orthene is just the brand name. I tried using the application that NorKali posted from Eclipse420. It didn't do any damage to my plants immediately, but it really severely damaged them in the following 2 weeks, it did worse damage than the RA's would have done. The Orthene/acephate labels do have phytotoxicity warnings on them, meaning it has shown to effect the listed plants.
I think it had to do with some reaction to my nutrients, I know Eclipse was running organics and if not mistaken, I think NorKal too. I run synthetics. The damage the stuff does is repairable if in veg, I just made the mistake of doing it in flower.
ballplayer 2
Active member
Thank you for chiming in Norkali and yerboyblue, I definitely appreciate your experience and suggestons. I was active in this thread awhile back, I should have been more on top of the Acephate/Pyrethrin treatment. However, I strayed away from this thread because I am unsure whether I have root mites or root aphids; so I had been active in the root mite thread here in the infirmary.
What I have looks more like a mite than an aphid. The damage in week 3-4 flowering, stall, refusal to drink goes along with root aphids. My variety of pest seems to include the micro (white/clear/tiny) and small reddish/brownish/opaque bug. Also, from what I understand these bugs are coming in from bagged soils. My FFOF definitely had these in it, whether aphid or mite.
I have Azatrol, Botanigard ES, Spinosad, Met 52, Imid, and Caps packs to deal with these pests right now. However, I will probably add the Riptide and Acephate to try be certain of eradication. My rooms have been sterilized and fallow for 6-7 months, hopefully the damn things have died or at least moved on.
I will be changing over to using Promix or Sunshine Mix, no more Fox Farm for me. I was also planning on switching over to synthetic nutes (Maxibloom) for ease of use while recovering from this traumatic experience (I was going organic before). Yerboyblue, your story of Acephate reacting with your nutes does give me some pause about using it in my grow. Also the fact that my exhaust does not leave the home gives me some pause about using Acephate indoors. Do you guys have any thoughts about the exhaust situation, probably not prudent to use Acephate indoors without exhausting to outdoors? Lastly,do you think cutting the Acephate dose might help with phytotoxicity, or would it become too dilute to kill the pest?
In any case I am hoping a myriad of measures contributes to ridding me of these damn things, so I can produce my own medicine again. Thank you for your time, help, and experience.
BP2
What I have looks more like a mite than an aphid. The damage in week 3-4 flowering, stall, refusal to drink goes along with root aphids. My variety of pest seems to include the micro (white/clear/tiny) and small reddish/brownish/opaque bug. Also, from what I understand these bugs are coming in from bagged soils. My FFOF definitely had these in it, whether aphid or mite.
I have Azatrol, Botanigard ES, Spinosad, Met 52, Imid, and Caps packs to deal with these pests right now. However, I will probably add the Riptide and Acephate to try be certain of eradication. My rooms have been sterilized and fallow for 6-7 months, hopefully the damn things have died or at least moved on.
I will be changing over to using Promix or Sunshine Mix, no more Fox Farm for me. I was also planning on switching over to synthetic nutes (Maxibloom) for ease of use while recovering from this traumatic experience (I was going organic before). Yerboyblue, your story of Acephate reacting with your nutes does give me some pause about using it in my grow. Also the fact that my exhaust does not leave the home gives me some pause about using Acephate indoors. Do you guys have any thoughts about the exhaust situation, probably not prudent to use Acephate indoors without exhausting to outdoors? Lastly,do you think cutting the Acephate dose might help with phytotoxicity, or would it become too dilute to kill the pest?
In any case I am hoping a myriad of measures contributes to ridding me of these damn things, so I can produce my own medicine again. Thank you for your time, help, and experience.
BP2
Gardens Keeper
Active member
For recurrent infestations chemicals are unreliable and insanely expensive as well as stupid and sedentary. You need to source some organic predators that target root aphids of which there are MANY and they are easy to propagate once purchased like all organic predators just google their food source and care. There are many very professional insectaries located in California. Organic predators are incredibly more effective than chemical ferts these chemical companies are pushing on people just like the 1000% mark up on bottled organic chemicals or synthetics trying to mimic them.
Good luck although with predators you don't need it as the job is done in a day or two.
FYI-use a lens. Insects have 6 legs, mites have 8.
I have recommended using Cedarcide PCO Choice a few times. No one else seems willing to try it. Using 2-3 tsp/gal., I have drenched for 20 minutes, let drain. Two hours later I flushed each 3 gal AeroBag with a gallon of pH'd tap, since I was afraid the Cedarcide might burn the roots. No problems. Followed up with app of veg nutes with Roots Excellurator.
The Cedarcide PCO choice is $75 quart. Great for spraying entire room. Nice smell, non-toxic to humans, organic. Fucks up insect pheromone system. Stop feeding, starve to death. It has a wetting agent that is especially effective on eggs, larvae, pupae. This probably kills or seriously injures adults so they die before they starve to death.
After that outbreak, I successfully controlled RA's till harvest with Botanigard and Nematodes. I also sprayed foliage once with Azasol at 12/12 flip. Azasol is an instantly water soluble form of Azadiractin that is much more systemic, and doesn't cause phytotoxicity and mess like the oil based forms such as Azamax/trol.
http://www.cedarcidestore.com/catalog/item/3412572/3000280.htm
Good luck. -granger
NOTE: I now [4-10-14] use 2-3 tsp/gal. Higher concentrations cause root damage. Best to try on expendable plants, flush, wait 7-10 days to see if they pass. Very effective repellant too. -granger
I have recommended using Cedarcide PCO Choice a few times. No one else seems willing to try it. Using 2-3 tsp/gal., I have drenched for 20 minutes, let drain. Two hours later I flushed each 3 gal AeroBag with a gallon of pH'd tap, since I was afraid the Cedarcide might burn the roots. No problems. Followed up with app of veg nutes with Roots Excellurator.
The Cedarcide PCO choice is $75 quart. Great for spraying entire room. Nice smell, non-toxic to humans, organic. Fucks up insect pheromone system. Stop feeding, starve to death. It has a wetting agent that is especially effective on eggs, larvae, pupae. This probably kills or seriously injures adults so they die before they starve to death.
After that outbreak, I successfully controlled RA's till harvest with Botanigard and Nematodes. I also sprayed foliage once with Azasol at 12/12 flip. Azasol is an instantly water soluble form of Azadiractin that is much more systemic, and doesn't cause phytotoxicity and mess like the oil based forms such as Azamax/trol.
http://www.cedarcidestore.com/catalog/item/3412572/3000280.htm
Good luck. -granger
NOTE: I now [4-10-14] use 2-3 tsp/gal. Higher concentrations cause root damage. Best to try on expendable plants, flush, wait 7-10 days to see if they pass. Very effective repellant too. -granger
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Wow, I read the whole thread. Some great posts and some real dumb posts.
Here is my quick summary on what works
Imid - mostly
met 52 - rarely
Botingard- not so much maybe best as preventative?
Obscure pyrethrins (riptide, evergreen etc) - yes but require on going applications
Acephate- sounds scary
Here is my quick summary on what works
Imid - mostly
met 52 - rarely
Botingard- not so much maybe best as preventative?
Obscure pyrethrins (riptide, evergreen etc) - yes but require on going applications
Acephate- sounds scary
MF Grimm
Member
Hey guys, I just wanted to throw out an update on mine.
I treated about 3 weeks ago with Imid (Bayer Citrus & Vegetable), and everything seemed to be all good. No winged flyers (only found less than 10 upon initial discovery), no more mature "beetle looking" aphids in the res or tray, and no more of the reddish brown translucent ones either.
Well I just got back in town a couple days ago, and everything was looking really good, but upon further inspection, I noticed some super tiny, immature nymphs crawling around. Maybe 40-50 in the entire 3x3 tray, but I knew if that was all I could see, there were dozens, if not hundreds more.
So I went and added 10ml/gallon Imid to my res, and ran it for 20 minutes, let it drain... and I noticed the nymphs were still moving and completely alive.
So then I decided to take a two pronged approach. I grabbed some SM-90 (mainly coriander oil), and mixed it up at a 1 part SM-90 to 5 parts water foiliar spray. I then went and sprayed the entire tray, pots, tops of pots, bottoms of pots....everywhere EXCEPT the actual plant vegetation.
Well, upon inspection after that, they were all dead. NOTHING was moving.
I'm gonna cross my fingers and keep a close eye on things, but I feel like at the very least, I can knock these things down until harvest in 8 weeks.
I'm absolutely positive I had them last crop, and that is the reason my plants started to fade yellow in weeks 6 or so... I couldn't figure it out at the time, but it was definitely that. These treated plants look so much healthier than my last run, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I treated about 3 weeks ago with Imid (Bayer Citrus & Vegetable), and everything seemed to be all good. No winged flyers (only found less than 10 upon initial discovery), no more mature "beetle looking" aphids in the res or tray, and no more of the reddish brown translucent ones either.
Well I just got back in town a couple days ago, and everything was looking really good, but upon further inspection, I noticed some super tiny, immature nymphs crawling around. Maybe 40-50 in the entire 3x3 tray, but I knew if that was all I could see, there were dozens, if not hundreds more.
So I went and added 10ml/gallon Imid to my res, and ran it for 20 minutes, let it drain... and I noticed the nymphs were still moving and completely alive.
So then I decided to take a two pronged approach. I grabbed some SM-90 (mainly coriander oil), and mixed it up at a 1 part SM-90 to 5 parts water foiliar spray. I then went and sprayed the entire tray, pots, tops of pots, bottoms of pots....everywhere EXCEPT the actual plant vegetation.
Well, upon inspection after that, they were all dead. NOTHING was moving.
I'm gonna cross my fingers and keep a close eye on things, but I feel like at the very least, I can knock these things down until harvest in 8 weeks.
I'm absolutely positive I had them last crop, and that is the reason my plants started to fade yellow in weeks 6 or so... I couldn't figure it out at the time, but it was definitely that. These treated plants look so much healthier than my last run, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
<~Hades~>
Active member
a few months before this thread was created, i had some eltes chems and ogs shipped to me in oahu in small 4x4 pots, guess the lil fuckers came in the soil, for a few months my mothers were wierding out ,then i saw this thread and had all the signs, went and watered and waited to see lil white specs i never noticed, so small crawling around, got some bayer tree imid and fed them strong, seemed like most were gone
then they seemed to be coming back and bam i was rescued black ants started to swarm my mother plants pots, carry larva and eggs away, guess they can sense all the dead in the soil.....in a few days the black ants eradicated all of the mites and have been home free for a long time, decided my clone trading days are over with
Ants saved me from this curse. dont know how you could do the same, be more of a slob like me i guess
then they seemed to be coming back and bam i was rescued black ants started to swarm my mother plants pots, carry larva and eggs away, guess they can sense all the dead in the soil.....in a few days the black ants eradicated all of the mites and have been home free for a long time, decided my clone trading days are over with
Ants saved me from this curse. dont know how you could do the same, be more of a slob like me i guess
a few months before this thread was created, i had some eltes chems and ogs shipped to me in oahu in small 4x4 pots, guess the lil fuckers came in the soil, for a few months my mothers were wierding out ,then i saw this thread and had all the signs, went and watered and waited to see lil white specs i never noticed, so small crawling around, got some bayer tree imid and fed them strong, seemed like most were gone
then they seemed to be coming back and bam i was rescued black ants started to swarm my mother plants pots, carry larva and eggs away, guess they can sense all the dead in the soil.....in a few days the black ants eradicated all of the mites and have been home free for a long time, decided my clone trading days are over with
Not surprising. RAs and ants have a symbiotic relationship. The ants protect and transport the Ra's eggs, while the RAs secrete a honey which is craved by the ants. Google it. Quite interesting.
A lot of you folks who keep getting them back?
Ants!
<~Hades~>
Active member
i personally when i saw the ants thought ,Poor ants are gonna die from the Imid, but it did not bother them ,they just marched off with eggs and carcasses and after a day or 2 both all just vanished, fucking blessing as the soil came from norcal and no one knew shit at the time, almost could have spread this curse to a whole nother state that i dont think we have the Mj loving root aphid nightmare in my state.. dont know ,buy ant farms or throw some cheetos around lol
have not had anything this destructive that looks like a fucked up def.......and so tiny and i been growing for a longtime, kept trying to figure out why this defecincy was killing plants. remember when this thread was only 20 30 pages and went fuck let me go look and millions of lil whte specs came crawling out you would never notice unlike root aphids which is easy to fix
Best of luck n your battles guys
Fuck the root aphids. Hit my reset button hard.
Ants have a symbiotic relationship with standard green aphids,
but they do not protect them by moving them away,
they actually spread the bugs to 'farm' them across many plants.
I do not know if this relationship exists with 'root aphids' or if they are even aphids.
Ants have a symbiotic relationship with standard green aphids,
but they do not protect them by moving them away,
they actually spread the bugs to 'farm' them across many plants.
I do not know if this relationship exists with 'root aphids' or if they are even aphids.
You need to do some more research.
in a few days the black ants eradicated all of the mites and have been home free for a long time, decided my clone trading days are over with
So now I'm confused. Were they mites or Root Aphids? Thought you were talking about RAs, but now you are talking about mites.
The worst nightmare of a pest is broad/cyclamen mites. Ten times worse than RAs. Microscopic, so you can't see them. Only a few of them can destroy your plants, as they inject a toxin as part of their digestive process. Those are really a bitch to get rid of.
<~Hades~>
Active member
I thought the lil pricks were the same things root mites/root aphids...All i know is it was the same scourge everyone had that spread from ncal as the epicenter all about the same time last year, where no one even knew they had um
There are things called "bulb mites" that attack the roots. Very tiny, and you need a scope to see them. If you are seeing them with your eyes only, they are Root aphids.
