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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
That is one ugly mofo! 
What I did today to some plants that had clear crawling crabs. I took them out of the pots and crumbled off a lot of the loose dirt. i put them all in new pots with almost all new soil since the roots are young and small still. Then I watered them in with water and hydrogen peroxide and 5ml per gallon 3%. (First time ever using peroxide)
Placed a fan blowing on top of the pots to dry out the tops. Put a yellow card above and some side lighting.
Hopefully tomorrow they'll look a little better. The plants that get up potted have bounced back faster than the plants that stay in the soil that was treated. Something in the IMID, azamax, pyrethrum spray does serious damage to leaves. I need to quit using multiple products to try and acertain which ones are causing it. In truth could quit most since I don't think are that effective in the first place.
So picture a clone that went into soil on the 7th with good roots. grew for a week. Was treated with imid and it hadn't grown at all in the next week. Still sitting there. That one I'm going to not transplant but only flush with peroxide water. See if that alone does anything
Smiley
What I did today to some plants that had clear crawling crabs. I took them out of the pots and crumbled off a lot of the loose dirt. i put them all in new pots with almost all new soil since the roots are young and small still. Then I watered them in with water and hydrogen peroxide and 5ml per gallon 3%. (First time ever using peroxide)
Placed a fan blowing on top of the pots to dry out the tops. Put a yellow card above and some side lighting.
Hopefully tomorrow they'll look a little better. The plants that get up potted have bounced back faster than the plants that stay in the soil that was treated. Something in the IMID, azamax, pyrethrum spray does serious damage to leaves. I need to quit using multiple products to try and acertain which ones are causing it. In truth could quit most since I don't think are that effective in the first place.
So picture a clone that went into soil on the 7th with good roots. grew for a week. Was treated with imid and it hadn't grown at all in the next week. Still sitting there. That one I'm going to not transplant but only flush with peroxide water. See if that alone does anything
Smiley
to see root aphid infested plants week 7 of flower(4 more days till week 8) CLICK HERE
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=166117
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=166117
Green&Gold
Member
I found these nasty buggers last night
What do you guys think. under the naked eye, they are tiny white specs and appear stationary. in root zone and specked on the top of the soil like salt. under the scope they are moving. also see some gnat larvae.
my skin is crawling.
What do you guys think. under the naked eye, they are tiny white specs and appear stationary. in root zone and specked on the top of the soil like salt. under the scope they are moving. also see some gnat larvae.
my skin is crawling.
Green&Gold
Member
From looking at the excellent life-cycle diagram, I believe these creatures are the nymph stage. Anyone have more complete hypothesis?
So please guys help me out, and give me a link where I can find out how to clean-up after these monsters, and how to safely take cuttings. Anything about pest management protocols and quarantine procedures much appreciated.
I need to take the cutting ASAP, before the plants deteriorate further.
So please guys help me out, and give me a link where I can find out how to clean-up after these monsters, and how to safely take cuttings. Anything about pest management protocols and quarantine procedures much appreciated.
I need to take the cutting ASAP, before the plants deteriorate further.
Green&Gold
Member
I also have a video of these bastards as well, not sure if it can be uploaded. 
I have this feeling I will see there terrible things again soon. I'll try to get a better picture this time. But I have to confess after I saw these heinous creatures under the scope I just wanted to compost the plant ASAP and wans't really working on getting the best picture.
I have this feeling I will see there terrible things again soon. I'll try to get a better picture this time. But I have to confess after I saw these heinous creatures under the scope I just wanted to compost the plant ASAP and wans't really working on getting the best picture.
Green&Gold
Member
Thanks for the thoughts ExpertSetup - Much appreciated. You ahve give me pause about taking the cuttings... Unfortunetly, the Merit product is banned where I live, and I can't/won't be able to get a hold of it even through nefarious means. I'm also not really into the idea of going nuclear on these beasts, since they and the garden are directly in the living space of humans and animals. If I was doing this in a commercial space I'd be more likely to try the Bayer product.
A friend is suggesting that I, take the cuttings, and then dunk them in isopropyl, then water bath then dry and into a glad bag then the rubbermaid then the crisper. What do you think about the alcohol idea?
Another friend has suggested I clean the room with H2O2, another suggested dilute bleach. Any thoughts? I can't fog the place as people and animals live here...
Fat J
Member
man... the merit (imidachlorpid aka imid) is not nuclear - i believe its the safest, most responsible way to deal with them and not hurt the enviro. You just CANT apply it within 45-55 days of harvest. It takes a tiny amount of it and it lasts long enough to keep killin the new hatchlings long enough to end their life cycle. Don't use bleach if theres plants in there... and it wont phase them. Don't spray anything (even organic) if you're in ur home with family/pets. (Think about this - Ricin, one of the most powerful nerve agents known to man is an organic, plant produced substance)
I strongly suggest if you have 45 days try to find a product that contains imid - maybe you can go talk to a commercial farmer or something. Imid is used on almost all US agricultural products and has been well studied and appears very safe when used correctly - its the same stuff they put in advantage (the flea stuff for pets)
I'M NOT RECCOMENDING THIS DUE TO LEGAL CONCERNS... but one could theoretically get some advantage and do a conversion for the concentration of imid in it and apply it as a horti treatment (using in manner not described on label is illegal) but it theoretically would work the same... look again and see if you can find any products that contain imidachlorpid
Other treatments can hold them off, but they come back - if imid cant be used next best I could say is pyrethrin dunks - get a product designed for use as a pyrethrin dip - itll kill em but theyll come back 2 weeks later... gotta treat every week for best results for like 1-2 months.
I strongly suggest if you have 45 days try to find a product that contains imid - maybe you can go talk to a commercial farmer or something. Imid is used on almost all US agricultural products and has been well studied and appears very safe when used correctly - its the same stuff they put in advantage (the flea stuff for pets)
I'M NOT RECCOMENDING THIS DUE TO LEGAL CONCERNS... but one could theoretically get some advantage and do a conversion for the concentration of imid in it and apply it as a horti treatment (using in manner not described on label is illegal) but it theoretically would work the same... look again and see if you can find any products that contain imidachlorpid
Other treatments can hold them off, but they come back - if imid cant be used next best I could say is pyrethrin dunks - get a product designed for use as a pyrethrin dip - itll kill em but theyll come back 2 weeks later... gotta treat every week for best results for like 1-2 months.
BigSwifty
Member
I disagree! You can't discount the organic methods that many have claimed success with. An early prevention method using neem (and/or pyrethrum) drenches and botanigard.... combined with possibly predatory nematodes (Both steiner & herm? species) is probably going to solve your problems.
Imid is suspected as one of the large pesticide players in Honey bee Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009754). Though it undoubtedly could be used safely in very small amounts for indoor cannabis cultivation, it can't be used safely elsewhere. Therefore I don't advocate the use of this shit at all... especially when you can do it organically. Yeah, it'll probably cost a bit more organically, but I think if you're controlling these things from the get-go, it'll be easy to eliminate them.
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Fat J
Member
Prevention is always better than treatment... but i disagree about the neem drenches, oils into the medium is bad, suffocates the roots, ive seen ppl ruin plants this way. Nematodes, bene fungals, good humidity control and well aerated medium are the best way to prevent them. imid isnt a good thing, i dont think any toxic substance really is, but weigh the benefits vs rewards vs something like pyreth: imid, used indoors correctly is pretty safe for the ecosys - pyreth dips otoh produce a ton of pyreth filled water that many ppl dump down the drain which kills a lot of aquaculture. (pyreth requires many apps, imid just once) I agree, it shouldnt be used on commercial fields - it is but it is causing problems for many insect populations - many beneficial.
Heres my point: some ppl depend on their room to put out and if they have to scrap a whole round (the org methods dont work very well on really bad infestations) to get a big happy microherd to keep the bugs away - for some ppl thats not acceptable, some ppl dont have that option.
Ive seen much negative feedback about nematodes being useless against phylloxera, maybe just the wrong type? Maybe theres a very good bene fungal cure too, i just havent found it. Imid saved my life. But you have to think things out and do whats right for you, everybody grows their own way and handles issues their own way. I use what works for me - but I'm always looking for better ways.
Heres my point: some ppl depend on their room to put out and if they have to scrap a whole round (the org methods dont work very well on really bad infestations) to get a big happy microherd to keep the bugs away - for some ppl thats not acceptable, some ppl dont have that option.
Ive seen much negative feedback about nematodes being useless against phylloxera, maybe just the wrong type? Maybe theres a very good bene fungal cure too, i just havent found it. Imid saved my life. But you have to think things out and do whats right for you, everybody grows their own way and handles issues their own way. I use what works for me - but I'm always looking for better ways.
RA experience follow up
RA experience follow up
Update- RA's killed my first grow. I gladly accepted new clones with RA's attached and went to war. My new rule is that all clones have problems that come from somewhere else. Top fed clones with Imid (Bayer) and followed up with two treatments of Botanigard per directions. I put one plant in rw croutons / hydroton in a net pot to provide a good environment for the RA's, lots of nooks and crannies to move around. It is also easier to see them if there. At this date no RA's bodies or waxy buildup visible and no phantom nut. issues. Still early though.
If I were to do it over, I would dip the clone roots in Botanigard solution and make direct contact with RA's and roots before planting. This may have enabled me to bypass the Imid, but as in my previous post I think there is no magic bullet. A multi pronged strategy staged early before major infestation is my war plan. I also think a big key in attacking with any systemic or contact insecticide is to be sure you give the plant ample time to absorb the insecticide or RA to contact non diluted insecticide. Do not irrigate/flush out before it's had a chance to work. My plants lived in a state of war for the first week. Limited water rations to aid chemical and fungal attack against RA's. Now constant surveillance and monitoring. I took them out of war mode last night with a good nut. & watering, 1000 ppm, ebb & flow. This morning they looked very happy. They will be switching to flower this week if no signs of RA. I still have the botanigard and malathion bottle ready.
RA experience follow up
Update- RA's killed my first grow. I gladly accepted new clones with RA's attached and went to war. My new rule is that all clones have problems that come from somewhere else. Top fed clones with Imid (Bayer) and followed up with two treatments of Botanigard per directions. I put one plant in rw croutons / hydroton in a net pot to provide a good environment for the RA's, lots of nooks and crannies to move around. It is also easier to see them if there. At this date no RA's bodies or waxy buildup visible and no phantom nut. issues. Still early though.
If I were to do it over, I would dip the clone roots in Botanigard solution and make direct contact with RA's and roots before planting. This may have enabled me to bypass the Imid, but as in my previous post I think there is no magic bullet. A multi pronged strategy staged early before major infestation is my war plan. I also think a big key in attacking with any systemic or contact insecticide is to be sure you give the plant ample time to absorb the insecticide or RA to contact non diluted insecticide. Do not irrigate/flush out before it's had a chance to work. My plants lived in a state of war for the first week. Limited water rations to aid chemical and fungal attack against RA's. Now constant surveillance and monitoring. I took them out of war mode last night with a good nut. & watering, 1000 ppm, ebb & flow. This morning they looked very happy. They will be switching to flower this week if no signs of RA. I still have the botanigard and malathion bottle ready.
I think the aphids are back in my garden. The "phantom deficiency" has shown back up over the last week and I noticed a couple of tiny whitish bugs on the hydroton. They had large rear ends and an opaque color similar to a cloudy trichome. I killed them on sight but I think they're the aphids? I never looked at the bugs before since I didn't know what I was dealing with so Im not 100% sure it's the root aphids again but I think it is, esp. with the deficiency showing up but with my plants at 850ppm and 5.9ph there shouldn't be any defs.
Not sure what I'm going to try next but the Imid treatments early in the crop don't seem to have fixed the issue. I think it delayed their life cycle by a week or two but that's it.
Not sure what I'm going to try next but the Imid treatments early in the crop don't seem to have fixed the issue. I think it delayed their life cycle by a week or two but that's it.
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Oh come on man!!! WTF Really sorry to hear that
Sounds like I need to get the pots out and stare at em see what's what.
Shit
WTF Really sorry to hear thatSounds like I need to get the pots out and stare at em see what's what.
Shit
Thanks for the commiserations. I think "commercial" Home Depot type solutions just aren't strong enough to be a permanent solution. The stuff is diluted so much that it dissipates quickly. My plants are basically locked in place so can't eyeball roots to verify it's the aphids but I think they are.
Any thoughts on what to try next? Im at day 36 and they were growing GREAT until about a week ago when the phantom deficiency kicked in. They're still flowering out nicely but I HATE those messed up fan leaves. Im thinking about cutting off the damaged leaves so at least the bud leaves get more light...
edit: I think I just saw a flier.
Any thoughts on what to try next? Im at day 36 and they were growing GREAT until about a week ago when the phantom deficiency kicked in. They're still flowering out nicely but I HATE those messed up fan leaves. Im thinking about cutting off the damaged leaves so at least the bud leaves get more light...
edit: I think I just saw a flier.
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Fat J
Member
id just let em go at that point and try 2 keep the medium drier than normal - u using medium or dwc? Personally Id just cut the leaves off as they got bad and try 2 get some good benes in the nute solution. I personally wouldnt do any real treatments after day 30 - just comp tea ans maybe nemazz. I'd try 2 tough it out. I used the bayer but on my big plants i used 2 OZ per Gal and split that between 10 2gal pots roughly evenly. Then I held off on water for 2 days - applied when moist but not wet.
