Found my long lost seed collection

[TnTLabs]

yo,
hope all is well! shame no biology expert has chimed in on my post.. but im intrigued now and going to ask a friend who has a bachelor in biology to see if the teq with h2o2 is counterproductive like i believe it to be...
i still stand by my advice to try with enzymes... actually im going to ask him that too..
talk soon

 

[Dog Star]

Did anybody tryed to add beneficial bacteries for easier seed sprouting??

Kelp extract is also good...

 

[TnTLabs]

i got a reply from my biology expert and he says:
H2o2 has a dual nature; on one hand it is naturally produced as a signalling molecule and the extra free oxygen molecules are also helpful for killing unwanted microbes and other bacteria - However you guys are fully organic as far as I am aware? So I'm not sure if this is beneficial as it would also kill the "good microbes" as well. It is also known to be helpful for stress training. These "positive" effects would only be noted under very low doses of H2o2 though i would suspect. Higher doses can cause a high degradation of DNA and lipids in the embryo.

In my opinion what you are doing right now is perfectly fine as a sterilisation measure, if you aren't having a problem with the seeds germinating through your usual methods I wouldn't change your ways..."

so maybe the dose you are using is way too high and you are hurting the embryos to begin with, plus like already mentioned, killing the enzymes in the seed needed for germination!

The rooting hormone will also throw the hormone ratios of the embryo out of balance..

Pleaaaaase try like i previously mentioned, i bet you will have at least the same if not much better outcome

 

[neongreen]

So I'm not sure if this is beneficial as it would also kill the "good microbes" as well.

With seeds this old and weak, the main priority IMHO is to make sure no pathogens can harm them during the first hours/days of their lives when they are particularly vulnerable.

Once they are off and growing fast they can better defend themselves against the bad microbes. If necessary the growing medium can then be repopulated with microbes, but I'm fairly sure that even a "sterilized" medium would repopulate itself without much help, although perhaps the balance of microbe species might swing around a bit from one extreme to the other for a while in extreme cases.

Higher doses can cause a high degradation of DNA and lipids in the embryo.

Which is why you only want a weak dose. As I mentioned earlier, most old seeds that I've soaked in weak H2O2 solution have germinated successfully, and gone on to thrive in most cases, although I have to admit I've killed a few due to unrelated grower error!

Let's not forget - the difference between poison and medicine is dose. Too much of "good thing" can be a bad thing, and a little of a "bad thing" can be a good thing!

 

[mule420]

I'm posting this link again... I made one, it germinates seeds flawlessly... To be frank, the way your germinating them sucks...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=172749

 

[Katsu]

This doesn't address any of the issues associated with older seeds. You won't get anything to pop like this when the seeds are this old. This is great for reasonably fresh seeds, but I've never had a problem with fresh seeds.

I'm posting this link again... I made one, it germinates seeds flawlessly... To be frank, the way your germinating them sucks...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=172749

 

[mule420]

This doesn't address any of the issues associated with older seeds. You won't get anything to pop like this when the seeds are this old. This is great for reasonably fresh seeds, but I've never had a problem with fresh seeds.

I have 8 year old seeds that were stored in a storage unit in Colorado. I killed 3 beans using rapid rooters, heat mat, and a dome... Made one of these and haven't looked back. I just made f2s with some of the ones that survived. Granted I've only used the thing for a couple of years with a handful of old beans but it cost $20 to make... The three old seeds I killed cost me $24 when I bought them...

 

[Katsu]

I have 8 year old seeds that were stored in a storage unit in Colorado. I killed 3 beans using rapid rooters, heat mat, and a dome... Made one of these and haven't looked back. I just made f2s with some of the ones that survived. Granted I've only used the thing for a couple of years with a handful of old beans but it cost $20 to make... The three old seeds I killed cost me $24 when I bought them...

Well, I'm testing everything else, I'll throw your contraption in the mix. I've got to tell you, I have lots of doubts. No scuff, no enzymes... I'll post results here - good or bad. Thanks for the info

 

[Sourbear]

I had a C99xBlueberry mix once that was like having a pineapple shoved down your throat.
I wish I was clone savvy then.....

beautiful list, I would love to try the black widow x G13, I've heard praise of her resin production.

 

[neongreen]

I would love to try the black widow x G13, I've heard praise of her resin production.

It has recently been reproduced, and is available right now (search "G13 x Black Widow F5"). Since it's quite inbred it's probably best used for breeding though.

 

[TnTLabs]

With seeds this old and weak, the main priority IMHO is to make sure no pathogens can harm them during the first hours/days of their lives when they are particularly vulnerable.

Once they are off and growing fast they can better defend themselves against the bad microbes. If necessary the growing medium can then be repopulated with microbes, but I'm fairly sure that even a "sterilized" medium would repopulate itself without much help, although perhaps the balance of microbe species might swing around a bit from one extreme to the other for a while in extreme cases.




Which is why you only want a weak dose. As I mentioned earlier, most old seeds that I've soaked in weak H2O2 solution have germinated successfully, and gone on to thrive in most cases, although I have to admit I've killed a few due to unrelated grower error!

Let's not forget - the difference between poison and medicine is dose. Too much of "good thing" can be a bad thing, and a little of a "bad thing" can be a good thing!

i understand your point, that the first hours/days are very important..
maybe look at it this way,... mother nature has put those bacterias, enzymes and microbes there for a reason, diminishing their numbers will slow down the whole process, helping with boosting these to win against pathogens just seems the only logical way... to me at least..

i admit your technique has its merits in some cases, but It would need to be tested to know what works better..

i saw a documentary about the seed bank in kew gardens, london some years ago.. one of the worlds largest seed archive if i remember correct... i cant remember how they germinated long stored beans though.. im intrigued to find out...

 

[budelight]

i saw a documentary about the seed bank in kew gardens, london some years ago.. one of the worlds largest seed archive if i remember correct... i cant remember how they germinated long stored beans though.. im intrigued to find out...

Katsu, its great of you to contribute back to the cannabis community with your banked strains. Thank you

I think this is the video TnT was referring too:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=P2v3eMTHaos
[YOUTUBEIF]P2v3eMTHaos[/YOUTUBEIF]

Hope to try some of these gems once they are around again.

 

[TnTLabs]

Katsu, its great of you to contribute back to the cannabis community with your banked strains. Thank you

I think this is the video TnT was referring too:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=P2v3eMTHaos
[YOUTUBEIF]P2v3eMTHaos[/YOUTUBEIF]

Hope to try some of these gems once they are around again.

hey budelight, nice of you to chime in...
as it goes i clicked one of your links and
what do i see there in your TheRealHash Mixed Strain Test Grow Thread from last year...

Germination:
Quote:
The current recommendation to use in the home from the University of California-Davis is:
Treat seed by heating on a stove for 5 minutes in a solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide at 140°F. (available in drug stores and pharmacies)
Important to maintain this temperature using a clean, accurate cooking thermometer.
Exceeding this temperature may damage or kill seeds resulting in poor germination.
Remove seed and rinse under running room temperature water for 1 minute.
Discard the hydrogen peroxide and do not reuse.
For more information see the publication 8151 Growing Sprouts at Home (http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8151.pdf).

Following cleansing, seeds are placed into a cup of tap water until the seeds crack and a tap root emerges.

Then planted 1/2" deep in FFOF and starter tray placed on 75* heating mat.

very interesting... i wouldnt dare try and cook my seeds, but i guess it worked for you budelight?!
so they use a 3% h2o2 solution for cleansing, then discard the solution after 5min... that makes sense to me
i would then place the seeds in a cup of water on a heating mat
with a enzyme solution

 

[Lester Beans]

Ok someone go first and cook their seeds lol

Very interesting to say the least, I have a bunch of old bagseed. I'll try this and report back.

 

[MJPassion]

The method linked above is used for edible sprouts. Most of those are way bigger than cannabis sprouts. The method seems feasible but I'm not big on cooking seeds previous to sprouting them either.
I wonder how the heat helps in the disinfection of the seeds, in conjunction w the H2O2?

The link also discusses germination using Calcium Hypochlorite but says NOT to use the granular type (pool shock).
It's definitely interesting.

 

[TDK]

mmmh i think i missed that thread..lool

great to see the long list...

 

[germ]

are there any news on the sprouted beans?

I#m very interested in the results.

 

[Dirt Life]

Looking forward to the show!

 

[superglue]

i tried the sponges floating in a warm tub yesterday on some 12 year old chocolate diesel f2's and 24 out of 26 cracked and have white embryos within 24 hours

sooo...

it may be something worth looking into

fwiw

 

[Katsu]

i tried the sponges floating in a warm tub yesterday on some 12 year old chocolate diesel f2's and 24 out of 26 cracked and have white embryos within 24 hours

sooo...

it may be something worth looking into

fwiw

I'm on it. Most recent test involved a 12 hour soak in GA3 and IAA and the sponge method. So far, results look promising with 3/10 showing signs of tails in 4 days.