Flush and starve plants during flowering??

[DHF]

DHF seems to know quiet a bit.. I guess my understanding from experience is that forcing cannibalization isn't necessary just because you see a little of it in nature, and a ton by over flushed indoor plants. Its science i take them to full maturity while pushing them with chemicals and lots of h202 daily to force the roots to stay white without rot. 1 week flush in aero will rid the chem completely fyi.

I do believe that aeroponics and my method is greater then nature because of the yield and quality ive experienced, although i'd much rather use the sun then hid.

Its like Mc donalds fries the should rot after weeks sitting out but they dont they look super fresh.

Well Gifted.....I`ve learned a few things over the yrs , and since I ran fast hydro for 15 yrs + before goin full fledged coco for ease of maintenance and more individual down time .......

The biggest contributing factor in late flower IME found was controlling what your ppm`s are actually "comprised" of to help swellage till end of cycle , and get rid of residual salt buildup from excess N and micro while replacing said consistent ppm`s with more bloom formula to compensate....that said.....

You might not have that option with cheaper nutes and that`s prolly why your residual fans won`t "yellow off" and start the chlorophyll degradation process that really kickstarts a good slow , steady , dry/cure process...but....

Without knowing how much N-P-K is actually in your formula of 8-900 ppm`s till last week before chop and then just runnin R/O through em , is the precise reason why your plants won`t "fade" and start the chlorophyll killing process regardless of the "health appearance" of your plants.....now......

If you do a 2 week flush for shits and giggles just to see what`ll happen as to whether the remaining foliage will start to fade , what you`ll do is shut the plants down from swelling any further and they WILL not yield as you consistently pull.....and why ?.....

I tried to explain this earlier about dropping ppm`s "gradually" last couple-3 weeks before Harvey due to the fact that the plants will continue to swell during lights off and pump resin as a defense mechanism during lights on IF they`re not starved , and then.....

What happens is they start pulling from their reserves little by little to keep up with the dwindling juice they`re being fed to "keep" nutrient uptake levels as close to the same as they`ve been used to through the course of their lives , and THAT`S......

Where the "fade" comes from , and I assure you in nature it`s not just mimiced "sometimes" , but rather EVERYTIME if grown properly without excess Chem nute regimens outdoors....

Shit`s been on the earth forever and when it`s time for it to bear seed , drop seed , wither on the vine and die , the shit turns ALL different colors from the inherent "anthocyanin" in EVERY pot plant , some more than others strain dependent , but regardless.....

End of cycle is more about "chlorophyll degradation" by dropping ppm`s , and other lil tidbits that`ve been learned along the path to Nirvana over the yrs like dropping lights off temps last couple weeks to help kill chlorophyll and help color em up , and then upping lights on temps to promote more resin pumping as a defense mechanism....but I digress.....

Moral to the story in a nutshell......If you don`t know what`s in your juice , you can`t adjust out the N and micro while replacing consistent ppm`s across the board with more bloom formula to keep the plants on an even keel TILL last couple weeks or so strain dependent before "gradually" dropping ppm`s down below tapwater levels in the high 100`s-low 200`s by chop , and then......

Letting a good slow dry and cure take care of the rest through evaporation and proper humidity removal over as many days as it takes to get nuggage to that "perfect" 62% for proper storage and ready for market........anyways.....

My 2 cents from all those yrs......The more you grow , the more you`ll know.....bet on it.......Never stop learning........

Peace....DHF...........

 

[EclipseFour20]

This morning as I was delivering one of my nute/fert brews to the girls in flower--it dawned on me why I don't have to "flush" like many growers do. It is because of a simple technique of insuring after each "brew delivery" there is a little run off from each container in the saucer.

Why the runoff? Two primary reasons--first is obvious, to insure bottom and top soil in the container is moist. But second reason is to insure the roots are "rinsed" with wetness. So, for a 5 gallon container, I deliver 32-48 oz of nutritious brew, then add additional plain water until I see equivalent of 4-8 oz of runoff in the saucer.

Since my custom growing medium is both super efficient and has excellent air/water porosity ratios--it only takes about 15 minutes after watering to see which plants need another 16-32 oz of water.

Now...if you consider this a flush, fine--but around 10 days before harvest I run about 2 gallons of molasses water through each 5 gallon container--and capture about 1.5 gallons as runoff. Then until harvest, plants receive water as needed, no nutes/ferts--so no flushing. I do this not to flush any buildup of nutes/ferts--rather I do this to make sure every cubic inch of my growing medium is moist and all roots have been "rinsed" and ready to take up their final meal.

My $0.02 as well....Cheers!

PS...the molasses runoff is delivered to my lawn and garden--BTW, I have the greenest lawn in the neighborhood and the only nutes/ferts the lawn ever sees is left over Raw Milk and Molasses Runoff. Which...are free since they are "waste byproducts" from my cannabis garden!

 

[Homebrewer]

Yellow leaves in nature? I guess Autumn never happens, right?

Yep I agree with DHF's thinking. If one wants to "mimic nature"--one has to...mimic nature in practice. Harvesting green bananas might be OK, but most fruit, vegetables, flowers, are best harvested at their "peak".

Given the option of harvesting a "green immature plant" vs a "yellow mature plant"--my vote is on the later; flavs & aromas are more pronounced--and potency will usually be greater. Put differently, seldom does one harvest plants early...if the goal is to maximize potency.

Perennials yellow come winter, annuals just die. Artificially 'yellowing' an annual by withholding much needed essential elements is just poor gardening.

 

[DHF]

Perennials yellow come winter, annuals just die. Artificially 'yellowing' an annual by withholding much needed essential elements is just poor gardening.

BEFORE annuals die , they suck their stored nutrient reserves leftover , and I assure you that it`s NOT "artificial yellowing" by dropping ppm`s gradually till end of cycle.......in fact.....

Mostly the fall colors after the used up fans that yellowed off and fell to the ground turns everything else into the "wine colors" bringing out that factor explained above once chlorophyll degradation occurs naturally and gradually till chop.......

These threads are notorious for blowing up......To flush or not to flush.....Folks please stay respectful.......

Flushing or not flushing has been an argument of mega proportions between hydro and dirt growers from day 1 when weedsites began 20 yrs ago.....and homebrewer......

Did you read my post "before" Eclipse`s last entry , or from the quote of his earlier post....Just wondering bout folks actually reading these days for all perspectives to be revealed......

Peace.....DHF..........

 

[EclipseFour20]

HB...agree, but there is at least one complication with the notion that "annual just die"...and the yellowing is withholding of essential elements.

My grow medium is rich in all 97 of earth's elements (no withholding here) and around day 65 in flower (12/12) my indica strains start this beautiful color transition to autumn colors (yellow, gold, red, rust, etc). No no crackle, crunchy leaves, just healthy leaves that are not green...now my sugar leaves and buds are green and vibrant and most of the original fan leaves are long gone--as I incorporate a constant defoliating technique that begins day 1 in veg and continues through harvest.

As to my sativa strains, same game--just different day and shorter window between color transition and harvest.

Now...a 2nd wrinkle on the annual/perennial argument when it comes to cannabis: mothers live for years--some decades...not for just one growing season. But wait, EF20...it is because the plant is in constant veg mode (18/6)...and never sees 12/12. My understanding is--you cannot replicate the "constant vegging" with most flowering/fruiting annuals like: peas, beans, squash, etc. Whereas you can with most perennials.

Interesting complication to simple growing game...lol! Cheers!

 

[Homebrewer]

BEFORE annuals die , they suck their stored nutrient reserves leftover , and I assure you that it`s NOT "artificial yellowing" by dropping ppm`s gradually till end of cycle.......in fact.....

Mostly the fall colors after the used up fans that yellowed off and fell to the ground turns everything else into the "wine colors" bringing out that factor explained above once chlorophyll degradation occurs naturally and gradually till chop.......

These threads are notorious for blowing up......To flush or not to flush.....Folks please stay respectful.......

Flushing or not flushing has been an argument of mega proportions between hydro and dirt growers from day 1 when weedsites began 20 yrs ago.....and homebrewer......

Did you read my post "before" Eclipse`s last entry , or from the quote of his earlier post....Just wondering bout folks actually reading these days for all perspectives to be revealed......

Peace.....DHF..........

I don't feel like picking apart your post but this link should help one figure out why their leaves are yellowing: http://www.aikenmastergardeners.org/gardentalk/?p=520


It's not easy to keep an indoor plant green and healthy until harvest and I think this notion of 'Autumning-off' is a convenient one for people who can't care for plants properly.

As far as the flushing debate goes, one should not look to outdoor perennials for tips on how to properly grow their indoor annuals.

 

[Gifted0ne]

My 2 cents from all those yrs......The more you grow , the more you`ll know.....bet on it.......Never stop learning........

Peace....DHF...........

Always fun to read your stuff.. I understand natures way of using reserves but from my testing ive got about 5 different formula complexes from veg to harvest where the plant is pulling the liquid and nutrients at a even pace to almost stabilize the ppm as the water level drops. In the 2nd to final week i do add a little water though and generally get about 700-750ppm and they love it.

I dont feel the need to make them use the reserves if they are happy taking what I give. I also never add any sugars ever because as long as my plants are 100% health the whole way never have an issue. My tops are massive about size of small football's, so the "excess" as you state doesnt seem to have a negative effect atleast.

Maybe in nature the plants are used more efficient pulling from the reserves rather then taking more out of the futile ground for future seeds but that doesnt mean its the best possible way to grow for quality and yield. Im not sure just thinking about it as I type.

 

[EclipseFour20]

I guess in some people's garden, leaves must have an indefinite life and never rejuvenate new growth as old growth dies. That said, I think many of us are saying the same thing...just that some of us are not listening.

Fan leaves come and go all through veg (evidence...mamas shed old leaf as they mature--or said differently, a 5 year old mama will have new leaf--not leaves that are 5 years old and still green). Depending on length of flower leaves may come and go. Ever run a 100 day chocolope? Pure Hershey's chocolate with melon syrup flavors--killer potency...almost all leaves were golden when I whacked her--even the sugar leaves. Now read between those lines, the plant and grow medium had sufficient energy to flower 100 days--if there was a nutrient deficiency, it would never have made it to triple digit flower days.

But...then again, my room temps are probably not the same as everyones, my RH not the same, my nutrient regime not the same, my soil ph regime not the same, my cation-anion exchange ratios not the same...so it seems to reason--that my garden results would be different than yours; as we are not the same.

Soooo many paths to the same destination--with every twist or turn in the road...brings a new challenge/opportunity!

Cheers!

 

[DHF]

I don't feel like picking apart your post but this link should help one figure out why their leaves are yellowing: http://www.aikenmastergardeners.org/gardentalk/?p=520


It's not easy to keep an indoor plant green and healthy until harvest and I think this notion of 'Autumning-off' is a convenient one for people who can't care for plants properly.

As far as the flushing debate goes, one should not look to outdoor perennials for tips on how to properly grow their indoor annuals.

Homebrewer......It`s not "easy" to "autumn off" a plant in the world of chem nutes and manufacturers recommended dosages without starving the plants needs I assure you , and regardless of your link......

I`ve been a grower and observer of said grows for many many yrs , and the exact opposite of what you`re trying to state is across the board logic with growing dope inside OR outside when dealing with nutrient uptake in the latter stages of flower....and.....Gifted.....

I`m glad you`ve got it all figured out , and what your logic states is the exact opposite of every production minded grower/caregiver I know in the "Legal Med Market" in every legal medville state there is including up into Canada , so even though your elements of logic ring true for you in your particular setup with small football sized cola heads that`re more normal than not with dialed setups , you both should know that I`m STILL not a proponent of "flushing".......but......

Dialing down ppm`s toward the end of cycle is and will always be the path of the "kmowledgeable "and experienced grower for the best possible end result finished product once proper dry and cure has occurred IME , or the most "preferable" way with Medville growers is to "flush" for the best possible bottom line taste/flavor and smell profiles that the dispensaries will accept for AAA top shelf shit they sell ....and guys........

Guaranteed NEITHER 1 of yas peddle your shit to the clubs or you`d not be singin this tune I assure both of you......reason being ?......Shit gets tested for residual EVERYTHING in Medville for THC , CBD, and CBN percentages as WELL as residual salts and other such contaminants AFTER the "supposed" proper dry and cure process , but WTF do I know......

Looks like ya`ll are the exception to the rule......Guaranteed it`s a WHOLE lot easier to keep plants "green" till chop rather than what Homebrewer`s alluding to with the normal formulas and ppm`s MOST dope growers run with but again......

I`m just a retired grower and student of the school of "observance", and not the school of works for me and it can`t be wrong if all my boys like the shit ......

Guys....again......I`ve never flushed a plant in my life....Ya`ll figure this shit out cuz I`m not getting through to either of your thought processes , and only bringing this discussion further down the rabbit hole with your steadfast positions on "not flushing" when both of you could do some side by sides and witness first hand instead of passing judgement on just your little corner of the world results.....and......

That`s why I HATE threads like this because EVERYONE always sticks to their guns instead of trying to look at ALL perspectives and reasons for doing what`s done in late flower through dry and cure for the absolute most dialed and top shelf finished product.......but guaranteed....

Either 1 of you take your shit to Harborside or ANY Lab associated dispensary in ANY Medville facility surrounding regardless of which state it`s in and you`ll be sadly and sorely turned out with "No" interest in your product once it`s been tested for residuals , pesticides , and other such contaminants......bet on it....regardless....

To each his own with the blinders on......

Peace....DHF...........

 

[Homebrewer]

I'm not arguing against 'not flushing' or even the 'tapering down' practice but what's the point in correcting your 'advice' DHF? You don't grow anymore and I really don't care about anyone's results other than my own.

IMO, you overfed during flower, emphasize the wrong elements at harvest and would subsequently harvest deficient plants. You're incorrectly extrapolating concepts from a varying outdoor environment like it's the template of how indoor plants should behave at harvest when grown in a rock-solid indoor environment. You also seem to be treating cannabis like it's some anomaly of a plant with special needs and specific elemental requirements only met by multi-part formulas....here's a hint if you ever start growing again: it's not.

Furthermore, comparing cash-cropped dispensary weed to high-quality homegrown is a complete joke. You think those brain-dead hippies up north or those wannabe's down south know the science behind plant nutrition? Please, it's a bunch of kids chasing the buck.

Either 1 of you take your shit to Harborside or ANY Lab associated dispensary in ANY Medville facility surrounding regardless of which state it`s in and you`ll be sadly and sorely turned out with "No" interest in your product once it`s been tested for residuals , pesticides , and other such contaminants......bet on it....regardless....

 

[Gifted0ne]

Either 1 of you take your shit to Harborside or ANY Lab associated dispensary in ANY Medville facility surrounding regardless of which state it`s in and you`ll be sadly and sorely turned out with "No" interest in your product once it`s been tested for residuals , pesticides , and other such contaminants......bet on it....regardless....

To each his own with the blinders on......

Peace....DHF...........

You down to come with me ill take some to harborside, just so you can calm down.. I dont sell any generally ever but ill have them test it.

Pesticides? In what way? because i use chemical fertilizer and have bud that comes out tasting no diff then the best organic? I know what im doing the environment is perfect, the water is perfect, the lighting is very efficient. My main argument was that in aeroponics giving the plant what it needs rather then depriving it for weeks near harvest is nothing but a waste of yield and potency.

Yes I harvest with green leaves (most taken off pre last few days) and get the best results ive had.. And yes I started out doing soil grows diluting weeks prior to harvest, its nothing to what method i use now.

 

[Gifted0ne]

God damn wtf is that sht i post a pic and thats what happens!?!? So lame so why the fk cant i delete or edit my posts???

 

[SooperSmurph]

Nowadays we have highly effective products which prevent salt buildup, so while multiple flushes may have been the way to go in the past, it really isn't needed anymore, instead of flushing multiple times to keep our soil healthy we can pump our babies full of nutes until the perfect moment to pull them away, I prefer the new way obviously.

 

[Oily Farmer]

There's some good information in this thread, and then there's some rubbish.
Starvation is never a good technique, regardless of what the stoner chronicles say. Just my opinion backed by centuries of science.
What do yellowing leaves indicate, in the context of this discussion? Yellowing leaves means that the plant has used up its stored reserves (which is the entire point of flushing/leaching) and has begun to cannibalize itself. If the harvest is driven by the color of trichomes, and they are ready when the leaves begin turning yellow, then it's time for me to harvest the plant(s).
Lastly, I have found that when the leaves turn yellow, trichomes fall off at an alarming rate, something that I definitely don't want to happen. I use the sugar leaves to make hash, so then there's that to consider.
In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.
Happy farming...

 

[frankenstein2]

I run a perpetual set-up in a 4x8 table and a 3x6 table. Both are split into two flowering sections. So the two week flush rule is almost impossible for me to implement, without the newer batch suffering. So I only flush with plain water for a week. I keep the rez topped off with fresh water everyday. I never go above 1000 ppm's, when I feed. My weed burns gray/white ashes. leaves turn yellow, and purple. Just like outdoors. Outside leaves yellow and completely fall off on their own during the last 2-3 weeks. I have smoked buds from the same set-up i'm running that had no flush at all. They were horrible. Ashes were black and greasy. Flushing makes a world of difference. Think of it like this. In the wild cannabis usually doesn't get high strength food mixed in with the rain falling from the sky. They get plain water and use the food in the ground. In my own experience when I grow plants like that(Set and forget) When I go back to get them there are lots of yellow and other color leaves. The smoke from these plants is usually some of the tastiest stuff I grow. On the other hand the plants I feed out-yield the set and forgets, sometimes by 10x or so, but they need to be flushed, or else i'd be smoking real chem weed lol!!!

 

[BasementGrower]

Well Gifted.....I`ve learned a few things over the yrs , and since I ran fast hydro for 15 yrs + before goin full fledged coco for ease of maintenance and more individual down time .......

The biggest contributing factor in late flower IME found was controlling what your ppm`s are actually "comprised" of to help swellage till end of cycle , and get rid of residual salt buildup from excess N and micro while replacing said consistent ppm`s with more bloom formula to compensate....that said.....

You might not have that option with cheaper nutes and that`s prolly why your residual fans won`t "yellow off" and start the chlorophyll degradation process that really kickstarts a good slow , steady , dry/cure process...but....

Without knowing how much N-P-K is actually in your formula of 8-900 ppm`s till last week before chop and then just runnin R/O through em , is the precise reason why your plants won`t "fade" and start the chlorophyll killing process regardless of the "health appearance" of your plants.....now......

If you do a 2 week flush for shits and giggles just to see what`ll happen as to whether the remaining foliage will start to fade , what you`ll do is shut the plants down from swelling any further and they WILL not yield as you consistently pull.....and why ?.....

I tried to explain this earlier about dropping ppm`s "gradually" last couple-3 weeks before Harvey due to the fact that the plants will continue to swell during lights off and pump resin as a defense mechanism during lights on IF they`re not starved , and then.....

What happens is they start pulling from their reserves little by little to keep up with the dwindling juice they`re being fed to "keep" nutrient uptake levels as close to the same as they`ve been used to through the course of their lives , and THAT`S......

Where the "fade" comes from , and I assure you in nature it`s not just mimiced "sometimes" , but rather EVERYTIME if grown properly without excess Chem nute regimens outdoors....

Shit`s been on the earth forever and when it`s time for it to bear seed , drop seed , wither on the vine and die , the shit turns ALL different colors from the inherent "anthocyanin" in EVERY pot plant , some more than others strain dependent , but regardless.....

End of cycle is more about "chlorophyll degradation" by dropping ppm`s , and other lil tidbits that`ve been learned along the path to Nirvana over the yrs like dropping lights off temps last couple weeks to help kill chlorophyll and help color em up , and then upping lights on temps to promote more resin pumping as a defense mechanism....but I digress.....

Moral to the story in a nutshell......If you don`t know what`s in your juice , you can`t adjust out the N and micro while replacing consistent ppm`s across the board with more bloom formula to keep the plants on an even keel TILL last couple weeks or so strain dependent before "gradually" dropping ppm`s down below tapwater levels in the high 100`s-low 200`s by chop , and then......

Letting a good slow dry and cure take care of the rest through evaporation and proper humidity removal over as many days as it takes to get nuggage to that "perfect" 62% for proper storage and ready for market........anyways.....

My 2 cents from all those yrs......The more you grow , the more you`ll know.....bet on it.......Never stop learning........

Peace....DHF...........

iunno I think DHF gives the best advice on most subjects on this site.. dude knows what hes talking about. and has helped many people.. so obv hes not going to sit here and make anyone do anything... and hes not trying to start anything at all .. hes a good dude who is always trying to help.. and help clear up all the misinformed..

thanks DHF. ur appreciated by a lot of us.

 

[Gifted0ne]

iunno I think DHF gives the best advice on most subjects on this site.. dude knows what hes talking about. and has helped many people.. so obv hes not going to sit here and make anyone do anything... and hes not trying to start anything at all .. hes a good dude who is always trying to help.. and help clear up all the misinformed..

thanks DHF. ur appreciated by a lot of us.

I agree hes got good info.. Ill do a test lowering ppm in late flower see if i notice any diff.. It would be hard to improve but fk it ill try it he wrote too much info to ignore.

 

[jjenkins]

Good gorsh...

...some folks really should pick up a basic text, something like Plant Physiology 101. Plants simply do not store "nutes". The only thing that passes through the permeable membrane surrounding the roots are elemental ions that are quickly converted to things like enzymes, proteins, sugars, acids and some other stuff. There is no "cabinet" or series of cabinets where plants put up things like nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium and so forth into for later use. It's all converted folks.

If your buds taste bad and you DIDN'T foliar bad stuff on 'em then what bad you're tasting is most likely chlorophyll. Proper drying and curing is what takes the flower to its highest potential --- not flushing and certainly not starving plants at that most critical of times. Go read some of the studies from various ag departments at various universities about starving fruit bearing crops near harvest --- they all report reduced yields.

Do yerself a favor --- get together with some growing buddies and setup some double-blind studies on flushing and not flushing.

BTW, my meds are NEVER refused at the SoCal pharmacies and none is returned.

And as the man said --- that's all I have to say about that......

 

[Gifted0ne]

Good gorsh...

...some folks really should pick up a basic text, something like Plant Physiology 101. Plants simply do not store "nutes". The only thing that passes through the permeable membrane surrounding the roots are elemental ions that are quickly converted to things like enzymes, proteins, sugars, acids and some other stuff. There is no "cabinet" or series of cabinets where plants put up things like nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium and so forth into for later use. It's all converted folks.

If your buds taste bad and you DIDN'T foliar bad stuff on 'em then what bad you're tasting is most likely chlorophyll. Proper drying and curing is what takes the flower to its highest potential --- not flushing and certainly not starving plants at that most critical of times. Go read some of the studies from various ag departments at various universities about starving fruit bearing crops near harvest --- they all report reduced yields.

Do yerself a favor --- get together with some growing buddies and setup some double-blind studies on flushing and not flushing.

BTW, my meds are NEVER refused at the SoCal pharmacies and none is returned.

And as the man said --- that's all I have to say about that......

I dont think this is good info.

 

[DHF]

I agree hes got good info.. Ill do a test lowering ppm in late flower see if i notice any diff.. It would be hard to improve but fk it ill try it he wrote too much info to ignore.

I tryta help folks with "the truth" not conjecture or hearsay , but rather first hand experience and knowledge from doin this shit for more yrs than most here have been alive.....but......

I`ll never shove shit down folks throat , but rather tryta lead em in the right direction of what`s been tried and proven for consistent returns over many many yrs......that said.....Homebrewer.......

Gladta know you`re a legend in your own mind......Please don`t degrade the thread with any more insults.....It only shows one-sidedness and lack of respect when there`s MANY ways to skin a mule.......but......

When it comes to perfecting the "art" of late flower tactics and procedures for the absolute most top shelf product , it`s well documented and well proven at all the invite only med grower/caregiver sites what I`ve posted and re-posted in this thread for many yrs , so.....

Growin dope takes runs under your belt and TRUE observance from start to finish to actually witness the difference between what`s "real" and what`s "hearsay" , so take it from someone that had 4 -5 locations at all times with 2 flip rooms a month or so apart in age to pull at least 10 harveys per yr with up to 512 plants runnin at all times in different stages of growth , and there`s not an oz of bullshit in my old ass.......bet on it.....and Gifted.....

The only way for you to "dwindle" down juice last few weeks before chop is to be able to "know" how much N-P-K is in your ppms where you can swap out the N and micro as well as calcium nitrate with more potassium and phosphorus to "maintain" consistent ppm`s across the board so the plants don`t go without what they need for optimum swellage before they`re harvied......IOW.....

AS long as your guys are happy , then my vote goes for if it ain`t broke don`t fix it......but.....Do a headies run if you`ve got room to try what I`ve been screamin and preachin just to "see" if it makes a difference in the bottomline end results , and then........

Come back and let us know your findings......Ya`ll take care and I assure you I`ll not shit in anyone else`s Koolaid when they try to bash my knowledge and experience......My ego went out the door back during the "Krusty Wars" yrs and yrs ago.....and Oh.....

Homebrewer.....I never fed over 750 ppm`s/1.5 EC for well on 15 yrs after my Krusty bucket setups , so please don`t tell me bout "me" overfeeding plants with the "need" to flush plants in the end when you`ve obviously never read that I NEVER flushed......Sheesh....

Peace....DHF............