Flush and starve plants during flowering??

[Izoc666]

I do organic before switched to synthetic bottles then did fourteen weeks of straight water, did flushed for pre harvested with synthetic for fourteen weeks also. Unti I read Riddleme's method with Make It Rain or MIR, and drowning rooting, they're all freaking awesome taste without loss of yielding ! Now I do boiling, easy job for me

IMHO the more healthy plant at bloom stage lead to maximum potential of this strain.

It's best thing is expriement and see it for yourself.

 

[medicalmj]

Please forgive me in advance as I don't have time to read this whole thread but I was wondering about the boiling water on the roots. I have never heard if this so won't say what my intuition tells me because it can clearly be wrong.

So can someone fill me in on the scientific basis and where I might investigate such practices. Thanks!

 

[Riddleme]

Please forgive me in advance as I don't have time to read this whole thread but I was wondering about the boiling water on the roots. I have never heard if this so won't say what my intuition tells me because it can clearly be wrong.

So can someone fill me in on the scientific basis and where I might investigate such practices. Thanks!

go to page 23 and read post 341

you can also Google what happens to O2 starved plants

 

[gmanwho]

I use ebb& flood buckets. On more then few occasions due to being lazy an not cleaning lines out they clogged, or hydroton clog, or actually putting buckets down ontop of feed lines i've starved more then a few plants.

When i finally catch it they actually were very wilted. And when they bounce back they never seemed to have gotten as swollen as the others. BUT then the resin production seemed to be over the top compared to the others.

More then once i can remember this happening.

So i remember a few times mid/late flower ,say day 50-52 id start a 2 day flush, shut off the feed timer an pump, wait 2-3 days or till they wilted, then start the flush floods again. The resin production seemed to increase, but i felt i lost yield. So i didnt continue to do this.

Dont think i have a photo to show that i could say " these were the runs" , but i did notice this on more then one occasion. I bet if i went back i could find the parts of my thread.

bsafe....

 

[DrFever]

I do organic before switched to synthetic bottles then did fourteen weeks of straight water, did flushed for pre harvested with synthetic for fourteen weeks also. Unti I read Riddleme's method with Make It Rain or MIR, and drowning rooting, they're all freaking awesome taste without loss of yielding ! Now I do boiling, easy job for me

IMHO the more healthy plant at bloom stage lead to maximum potential of this strain.

It's best thing is expriement and see it for yourself.

I don't think a scientist would be stupid enough to even try to research these ideas.

you have my outlook.. the plant evolved for millions of years to require certain conditions...to grow good bud, give the plant these ideal conditions!.. don't fucking boil it lol all we need now is a person who defoliates, grows vert and boils his plants and id have seen it all lol.

 

[944s2]

I don't think a scientist would be stupid enough to even try to research these ideas.

you have my outlook.. the plant evolved for millions of years to require certain conditions...to grow good bud, give the plant these ideal conditions!.. don't fucking boil it lol all we need now is a person who defoliates, grows vert and boils his plants and id have seen it all lol.

lol doc f
also not forgetting 10 pages on how to pop a "bean" lol,,

 

[ThaiBliss]

All I know for sure is top quality weed used to be much better. Somewhere... we have gone wrong. It is almost impossible to find anything better than medium quality.

I've been proven wrong about how best to grow in the past, more than once. I don't scoff at unconventional wisdom anymore.

ThaiBliss

 

[medicalmj]

go to page 23 and read post 341

you can also Google what happens to O2 starved plants

So I read that post and I am not trying to be a dick but I think you need to go back over cell biology.

Respiration is sorta like the reverse of photosynthesis and plants can do both, unlike animals. Your conclusion that forcing a plant to respire will eliminate carbohydrates is correct. However, if you boil the roots you will kill the plant and it won't be able to respire.

Studies show that the H+ gradient between the stroma and the thykaloid space is instantly eliminated as soon as light is removed, which eliminates one of the methods of creating ATP prior to the Calvin cycle. The existing NADPH can still enter the Calvin cycle and produce ATP but will come to an end without light. So without light the plant quickly loses its ability to create ATP. If a plant is alive it will need ATP to perform its functions. So the other method for creating ATP is respiration.

It seems the 3 day dark rest would force respiration and its subsequent carbohydrate consumption best.

 

[Bongstar420]

The the outcomes depicted in the photographs require a specific set of conditions. A proper finish is only partially indicated by colors per se. Its harder to get this look on the plant and produces no better product at the end as far as I can tell. It's value is mostly limited to its aesthetic quality at this point in time. It may be found that specific colors are in fact good drugs to get however.

The lore is all about what is called "luxury consumption." Long story short, the plant has storage for extra fertilizer. In Cannabis, the plant usually only has yellow and necrosis as associated visual indicators of "luxury consumption" depletion. The other pigments are induced by other environmental factors. The plant in the photograph usually shows little color. The photograph is of a grow "style" which I do not use for production. That flower was actually less "desirable" than the mostly green ones which were transferred to a dispensary 2 months ago though I could get that color "look" with the same smoke qualities. The plants in the photograph were only slightly off for reasons I forget. I only remember noting that the finish was off which was indicated by a certain kind of "harshess" to the smoke.

I don't think starvation is your best finish. You are going to have to use rules of thumb and refine individuals to specific schedules. Its the same as how different cuts require different nute levels and ratios. For instance, I've got a cut that sucks up enough Nitrogen to ruin any smoke thereby dooming it to BHO, and yet its very nice for a mid-potency variety and is actually as smooth as any at the finish.

 

[CaliVeganix]

UGGH Government Research Anyone?

UGGH Government Research Anyone?

Talk about necromancy. Literally. I've read about half of this thread and feel like while it's old, it has potential to really confuse a new grower. TONS of ppl read a botany book or two and swear they're conducting clinical trials and they're results are foolproof with no mention to the control of their studies, their biases, etc....or worse the professional botanists who try lumping cannabis with other plants as if its not unique (as homebrewer suggested) when in fact STUDIES BY REAL SCIENTIST HAVE SHOWN IT IS...time for evidence.. know who DOES employ scientists with actual PhD's? Who actually conducts clinical trials on cannabis in a controlled laboratory setting? Who owns a patent on cannabis? THE GOVERNMENT!!!! The national Institute of Health published a paper about the cannabis plants senescence period and it's triggers. Apparently, the THCA (chemical precursor to thc) is stored in the plant leaves DNA and has been found to be necrotic to the leaf tissue (destroys chlorophyll) and the signal to the plant that it's life is almost over. In the last two weeks the plant focuses on reproduction (its resin production is a floral defense from predators) more than leaf repair, root system, etc. So as the resin is secreted from the plant in the last two weeks while ripening, it begins the necrosis process triggering the plants senecense period as its literally being slowly killed by the thc and it knows its on its last days. As we all know the process of the breakdown of chloryphill into sugars is called fermentation. Which is ideal. and which you need nitrogen for. However nitrogen has already been shown to be stored in leaves readily and should still be available in copious amounts, especially when you consider how short are flower periods are vs. How long a pre-charged soil stays charged and how much we feed. From what the NIH discovered, one can only assume that if the amount of trichome production increase is not enough to trigger necrosis to a point where the leaves yellow because of senescence then there are HEAVY amounts of N in the plant. Flushing works. But flushing doesn't remove nutrients or any of that, but rather prevents a grower from adding more nutrients during fermentation. Where the plant nutrients are BREAKING THEMSELVES DOWN DUE TO SENESCENSE. Stripping their diet SLOWLY as mentioned earlier, until plain water is reached, helps speed up and complete that process as the plant is looking for nutrients in an attempt to keep surviving since it's slowly dying and since your not giving very much nutes at the end, it cannibalizes itself. Speeding up the degradation of chlorophyll. AGAIN FERMENTATION which is why growers KNOW they're shit tasted better when flushed. The old heads had it right, they just didn't know why, and so egotistical ppl like home brewer made this a HEAVILY controversial subject due to their "knowledge" they parroted off of some book at Barnes and noble. ANNUALS DON'T JUST DIE HOMEBREWER. THERE ARE TRIGGERS AND CANNABIS IS UNIQUE BECAUSE WHAT SIGNALS IT'S SENESCENCE ISN'T TEMP, LIGHT, ETC BUT IT'S MOLECULAR COMPOUNDS AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT. And for those who might be wondering thc is produced throughout most of flowering, why doesn't it start senescence immediatley? I'd assume because the plant is still building/repairing new cells and growth. Plus flowers aren't ripening so the defense mechanism isn't activated (HEAVY trichome production) and the plant is able to outpace any necrotic effects resulting from the secretion of THCA, whereas in the last 2 weeks MOST of the reproductive phase is over and new cells are not being generated/repaired.

 

[CaliVeganix]

Here's the link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...RV5Zc_1oHn_ADmMfg&sig2=RWzZ9sc9gYbuTAW0aDIkxg

 

[CaliVeganix]

And I agree with the above poster that NPK needs differ with genetics and what one likes could stunt another (am actually dealing with/dialing in that issue at the moment lol) but when dialed in a grower should ideally be seeing leaf senescence/fermentation. As mentioned above it IS HARDER TOO DO. But if you cure (ferment) thouroughly/a long time then theoretically one can achieve an equally smoothe smoke as the grower who achieves leaf senescence and runs a shorter cure

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Suffice to say that I would never inhale a lung full of smoke just for the taste of it.

You haven't lived then. Some of my favorite moments in life involve the amazingly crisp, clean and overpowering scents and flavors from the cannabis I've grown. You literally want to eat the smoke as you exhale. MMMMMmmmm Mmmmmm Goood!

Even if it didn't medicate me I'd still really enjoy cannabis as a 'smoke' for enjoyment. Properly grown cannabis, that is.

I'm a firm believer in fading the last few weeks before chop. Feed sufficient to maintain full growth during flower, no need for flushing, then let the ppm drop once budswell has completed and resin production kicks into high gear. Main reason? Cannabis DNA is geared for seed maturation and continuation of the specie while I grow for pure enjoyment and medication. I chop when cannabinoid production reaches its peak, 5-15% amber depending on the strain, nature's natural 'gold' comes through significantly later than this point.

I'm not a big fan of CBN, chopping at 20% amber and beyond makes for cannabis I don't care for. I love me, I love life and I'm not interested in using mass caffeine to stay awake for it.

Hydro allows me to precisely control this. The difference is like night and day, and when you experience it, it's definitely game changing.

 

[mrwags]

My Penny

Those big leaves we call fans are like solar panels that soak up light and when darkness come sends its energy down to the roots for growth. In using a meter and knowing your ppm of your water-going in is easy that see after changing the barrel over and over and over that when that ppm equals where you started your close. Imho since everything is sent down wn below during darkness once the ppm number is reached a good two days darkness is helpful as well as cutting them down in the dark so that most everything food wise is in the pot when cut where it's suppose to be. I know that sounds kind remedial but I'm a pothead and dummy do dummy does and I like simple.

My Penny
Wags

 

[Homebrewer]

Talk about necromancy. Literally. I've read about half of this thread and feel like while it's old, it has potential to really confuse a new grower. TONS of ppl read a botany book or two and swear they're conducting clinical trials and they're results are foolproof with no mention to the control of their studies, their biases, etc....or worse the professional botanists who try lumping cannabis with other plants as if its not unique (as homebrewer suggested) when in fact STUDIES BY REAL SCIENTIST HAVE SHOWN IT IS...time for evidence.. know who DOES employ scientists with actual PhD's? Who actually conducts clinical trials on cannabis in a controlled laboratory setting? Who owns a patent on cannabis? THE GOVERNMENT!!!! The national Institute of Health published a paper about the cannabis plants senescence period and it's triggers. Apparently, the THCA (chemical precursor to thc) is stored in the plant leaves DNA and has been found to be necrotic to the leaf tissue (destroys chlorophyll) and the signal to the plant that it's life is almost over. In the last two weeks the plant focuses on reproduction (its resin production is a floral defense from predators) more than leaf repair, root system, etc. So as the resin is secreted from the plant in the last two weeks while ripening, it begins the necrosis process triggering the plants senecense period as its literally being slowly killed by the thc and it knows its on its last days. As we all know the process of the breakdown of chloryphill into sugars is called fermentation. Which is ideal. and which you need nitrogen for. However nitrogen has already been shown to be stored in leaves readily and should still be available in copious amounts, especially when you consider how short are flower periods are vs. How long a pre-charged soil stays charged and how much we feed. From what the NIH discovered, one can only assume that if the amount of trichome production increase is not enough to trigger necrosis to a point where the leaves yellow because of senescence then there are HEAVY amounts of N in the plant. Flushing works. But flushing doesn't remove nutrients or any of that, but rather prevents a grower from adding more nutrients during fermentation. Where the plant nutrients are BREAKING THEMSELVES DOWN DUE TO SENESCENSE. Stripping their diet SLOWLY as mentioned earlier, until plain water is reached, helps speed up and complete that process as the plant is looking for nutrients in an attempt to keep surviving since it's slowly dying and since your not giving very much nutes at the end, it cannibalizes itself. Speeding up the degradation of chlorophyll. AGAIN FERMENTATION which is why growers KNOW they're shit tasted better when flushed. The old heads had it right, they just didn't know why, and so egotistical ppl like home brewer made this a HEAVILY controversial subject due to their "knowledge" they parroted off of some book at Barnes and noble. ANNUALS DON'T JUST DIE HOMEBREWER. THERE ARE TRIGGERS AND CANNABIS IS UNIQUE BECAUSE WHAT SIGNALS IT'S SENESCENCE ISN'T TEMP, LIGHT, ETC BUT IT'S MOLECULAR COMPOUNDS AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT. And for those who might be wondering thc is produced throughout most of flowering, why doesn't it start senescence immediatley? I'd assume because the plant is still building/repairing new cells and growth. Plus flowers aren't ripening so the defense mechanism isn't activated (HEAVY trichome production) and the plant is able to outpace any necrotic effects resulting from the secretion of THCA, whereas in the last 2 weeks MOST of the reproductive phase is over and new cells are not being generated/repaired.

Above anything, I believe unequivocally that healthy plants at harvest yield the best medicine. Get there in whatever way works best for you and your patients.