Flight pattern for helicopters when doing thermal imaging?

[tokenbanker]

the flir dea had could see bulbs. they showed that clearly before they showed that basement house. i still have that one on my tivo and watch it alot.
ir can go through shit, i've seen it first hand on cameras that cost almost $100,000
cheap ir filters that can be put on camcorder lenses an see through clothing, and that was 15 years ago.
technology within the last few years has really progressed man. barry's camera is old.
check out a security conference some time, if they are even open to the public

The IR imagery you see on cheap camcorders IS NOT thermal imaging. Thermal imaging cannot see the bulb it can only read surface temperatures. If you're growing in your attic, your attic will be warmer or even hot compared to the rest of the roof. A thermal imager might be able to pinpoint the location of the lamp based on a hot spot on the exterior of the house but it can't "see" the bulb.

IMO, a properly designed and constructed attic grow room can mitigate or completely eliminate a heat signature that would be recognized as a grow room using thermal imaging.

Just my $0.02

 

[REZDOG]

If a helicopter is doing a thermal scan of a property (or properties), how exactly would it fly relative to the target?

Does it need to hover over the target?
Can it circle directly overhead?
Can it run its detection several hundred yards away while circling/hovering?
how long does it need to target a property to get a clear reading for hot spots?
Does it need to be at a low altitude, or can it be high up?

I ask because last night a helicopter circled right over my house a couple of times at a VERY low altitude (150 feet, tops) without its spotlight on, then fly straight away.

At 150',anyone with LUR can see your thermal imprint,and can watch you fuck your girl,as well.
However,it sounds like a ghetto bird was looking for a sex offender hiding near your property... No worries.

....If you're really concerned,lead sheeting will thwart thermal imaging,if correctly applied.



Cheers!

 

[good drown]

At 150',anyone with LUR can see your thermal imprint,and can watch you fuck your girl,as well.
However,it sounds like a ghetto bird was looking for a sex offender hiding near your property... No worries.

....If you're really concerned,lead sheeting will thwart thermal imaging,if correctly applied.



Cheers!

at least somebody knows...
anything flying that low is the "worst thing ever" in our world
c3 film does the same. illegal here i us, but can be purchased online. a cali company sells ir blocker, technology used by nasa. its like $100 for a 4'x25'

 

[cashmunny]

Insulate and use MLI radiant barriers. This cannot see through walls. It just measures the temperature of exterior surfaces, small differences, and amplifies those differences and presents that as a visual picture. All you need to do is seal convective heat leaks, keep your grow rooms cooled to reasonable temperatures and use MLI above and around your lights. The more layers the better, depending on how paranoid you are.

There are only three methods of heat transfer, convection, conduction and radiation. Sealing leaks addresses #1, cooling your room addresses #2, and a radiant barrier like MLI addresses #3. Reflective mylar with space in between layers can be used as MLI. Aluminum foil will work in a pinch also.
Google Multi-Layer-Insulation.

 

[good drown]

i did that to mine.

 

[Spacecadet01]

you should be alright with only a 400...maybe one of your neighbors is growing big?? Also if you live near any kind of wetland they could be spraying for bugs...happens by where I live all the time.

 

[DrBudGreengenes]

You guys r being a lil paranoid

 

[Kush_Dreams]

I wonder if it's only choppers that can do a fly over?

Twice within one week i had a plane fly directly over my house and it was very low. The second time it happened i just happen to be outside with a pair of binoculars, when i saw the plane coming i started looking at it through the binoculars (lol) but i couldn't see any markings on the plane.It flew over just like it did last time. I live out in the country with no one around me and no airport close so it made me very nervous.

 

[ddrew]

I life in the flight path of a major Trauma center, Lifeflight(copter) goes over several times a week, freaked me out at first until I figured out what it was.

 

[good drown]

I wonder if it's only choppers that can do a fly over?

Twice within one week i had a plane fly directly over my house and it was very low. The second time it happened i just happen to be outside with a pair of binoculars, when i saw the plane coming i started looking at it through the binoculars (lol) but i couldn't see any markings on the plane.It flew over just like it did last time. I live out in the country with no one around me and no airport close so it made me very nervous.

if you live out in the country its most likely private, and somone has a airstrip on their land. if its cops they are most likely looking for outdoor grows in a plane. flying low seems odd though, how low is very low?

i hate living in the path of the emergency helicopters transport route

 

[lysol]

Personally I would ONLY tear down if there was a knock and talk or you had reason to believe someone snitched. These guys don't just go flying around at random, if they were doing a scan you'd probably know how they found out.

Lots of shit generates heat... did you guys know your oven vents heat out of a small port? I suppose every betty crocker should be on her toes? What they're looking for is the entire foundation glowing

http://images2.opticsplanet.com/640-640/opplanet-flir-pathfindir-5.jpg

if you can't see a person 20F over ambient thru a thin glass windshield, how in the hell they gonna detect a couple light bulbs?

My computer is 120F, Monitors 95F, TV 90F my 150W halogen light bulb is 300F +

How hot is your 400w? Probably about 350F, but what you want to look at of course is surface temps. If the ceiling above the bulb is only 78F that's the most they'll "register".

To the people saying there is new technology, i am open minded but lets see some "screenshots" of what this technology can actually see. So far the only thing flir "sees thru" is smoke, fog, haze, light brush or woods, etc.. Most houses use whats called r30 insulation. Open the door panel to your attic, put a hot light bulb 1ft behind it and shoot a $20 IR thermometer at the other side and you will see that not much heat is going thru.

Flir looks at heat, it has no magical abilities to look thru things, rather it is the heat that gets thru ( which the flir picks uP )


The helicopter may be there for Watershed temperature monitoring and monitoring wild game habitats, Detection of energy loss or insulation defects in buildings in order to reduce HVAC energy consumption, Warning drivers about deer and other animals on the road, Detecting leaks of natural gas and other gasses., Detecting heat in faulty electrical joints., etc... ( taken from wikipedia )

emissivity

The emissivity of a material (usually written ε or e) is the ratio of energy radiated by a particular material to energy radiated by a black body at the same temperature. It is a measure of a material's ability to radiate absorbed energy. ...


Here is what they saw when they flew over your house dude... http://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/images/1698/1_FLIR_badly_ins_wall.jpg nothing.


http://www.7b.org/thermal/thermal-weapon-FLIR-sights.jpg
See how this guys clothing shows up a different color? My IR thermometer shows my shirt at 83F. My bare skin is 94F, if my shirt obscures a 12F difference on something it is in contact with, your light bulb is not going to give you away unless you have poor insulation and allow a huge heat build up ( like put the bulb a foot infront of a window and didnt air-cool it ). If the guy in the pic were wearing like hoodies and pants and a ski mask i bet he would camoflauge in very well with his surroundings.

 

[Kush_Dreams]

if you live out in the country its most likely private, and somone has a airstrip on their land. if its cops they are most likely looking for outdoor grows in a plane. flying low seems odd though, how low is very low?

i hate living in the path of the emergency helicopters transport route

I was thinking it may have been a private plane with an airstrip on their land,someone out having fun Low as in probably a couple hundred feet above the house

 

[nepalnt21]

the cops are not worried about you it cost a lot of money to fly those helicopters and they are not investing $10,000's of dollars trying to bust your little 400w grow...

shit they fly 7 days a week, sometimes 24 hours a day. (round here, anyway)

they dont care about expense, it comes from YOUR wallet, not theirs. they could care less if its one seedling or a house full (although they would rather bust a big growop). a bust is a bust. that said, they DO need a warrant to come in.

best bet, cover your ass. cut ALL loose ends, dont tell anyone, know the law, and best of all, never underestimate the lows these bottom feeders will stoop to. theyll fuck their dead mom if it means busting a botanist.

 

[*mr.mike*]

Did you know ther is no difference in heat signature from a 400w or a 32" tv it looks the same from above you threw out your plants and seeds for no reason the cops are not worried about you it cost a lot of money to fly those helicopters and they are not investing $10,000's of dollars trying to bust your little 400w grow..

Sure, that $30000 flight mat cost a lot to you, a taxpayer, but is it really that much for the raise and boost to a cop? Or the Nat'l Guard guy who's his old buddy? Do you think the chief cares about approving a "sure" bust? If you think it looks the same as that tv, you're sadly mistaken...

I will agree with SHO. The assumption a 52" TV puts off the same amount of heat as a 400W lamp is ridiculous.

The fuckers were definitely no more than 200 feet overhead. It was very loud.

And with modern technology, the resolution of FLIR is quite good. Ever see high-resolution footage of the night vision used when Army helicopters kill Iraqis at night? Very detailed.

I'd rather pull the plants and clean out the place and be without any weed, as opposed to getting convicted of a felony.

No weed? Sucks but not the end of the world.
Convicted of a felony because I think "It won't happen to me"? Preventable and fucking stupid.

You are wise beyond your years. The FLIR can indeed show a very nice shot of a lamp with a hood, if you've seen them before. And yes, they were used to find Iraqis, even back in 1991-2.

L OH FUCKING L he had a 400w GROW THATS PRACTICALLY A MICRO GROW...

if you guys are that fucking paranoid you should quit smoking/growing pot because it has obviously gotten to you....

there are murders, rapes, assaults, meth being made, herion being shot up, and crackheads cooking crack and you think they're worried about your 400w grow?

BE PARANOID... it means you realize what's going on! Let people like the fool above draw the fire for you. You know people like them, it's never a shame when people get it for being stupid.
BTW, those crackheads, meth cooks, and heroin people are notorious for being well armed, and a bit psychotic at times. Cops would MUCH rather deal with a pothead, and that's evident in the numbers!

there is no camera or FLIR capable off seeing a 400w light.... dosn't matter why they were flying low. i used to have choppers come so close i could tell what kind of mustache the pilot and to the point i could yell at them asking them what they want.... if they were busting you there would be squad cars there with those choppers.

I was busted using a 360 Watt lamp... you're full of shit!

You kill me dude.. Trust me on this a flir cant count plants or people in the house. Yes i have looked threw it while in the military. A 400 watter with 2 plants will never give off a big enough heat signature to look out of ordinary. Counting plants,,jesshhhh give me a break.

It's not the plants, it's the light, mich like my 360 Watter than the cops and Nat'l Guard were easily able to "see" and verify through their experience and practice. You could indeed see me and my girlfriend in bed on the video. There's a difference between some guy in the military, and a SEASONED VETERAN (which you are OBVIOUSLY NOT) using it.

At 150',anyone with LUR can see your thermal imprint,and can watch you fuck your girl,as well.
However,it sounds like a ghetto bird was looking for a sex offender hiding near your property... No worries.

....If you're really concerned,lead sheeting will thwart thermal imaging,if correctly applied.

You know the deal!

You guys r being a lil paranoid

That's what my Dad told me... "If you think they're looking for you, you should put down the pipe, and stop gettin all hopped up" He ate his words a few months later.

I was busted by a Nat'l Guard helicopter with FLIR years ago. My grow setup was a small 360 watt lamp, and a few old, scraggly clone mothers i had been depending on for a few years.

Including the FLIR Nat'l Guard unit, and the stake outs, the bill for my bust was well in excess of $50000. For a closet grow. Sure, there were other circumstances involved, but they went all out. My whole mantra at the time was "If I'm going to be breaking the law, I'll just make them break the law to bust me." It worked... for a while.

I personally was shocked at the FLIR video... not only could I "see" my light in one closet, but even the 160 watts of flos gave an image in another closet. Yes, you COULD see myself and my girlfriend in bed, and not unclearly. You could also see what looked like a lot of other grows (some of which I knew about) in neighbor's homes, and down the street.. but they weren't looking for them.

The DA said "28 years." Maybe it was to make me deal, I don't know. I was down and feeling quite FUCKED. Others made some phone calls for me - you can't understand what it felt like then - Then a lawyer called me, introduced himself, and told me "If they used a helicopter, I WILL GET YOU OFF. One 'symbolic' day in prison, at worst."

He got me off with a year of probation. That wasn't so bad as some of my asshole "friends" claiming that the cops were watching me, or that because of my bust I was untrustworthy. Despite all the people I helped out more than a few times, no one gave a shit as much to even offer me $10 to help with my legal costs. People just said "he's going to jail." This is what you can expect if they come down on you.

DON'T let your guard down. KEEP paranoid. Do EVERYTHING you can to keep everything SECRET! Everything would be much easier to just close the grow and start over, even if you're wrong. DON'T let your ego get the better of you!

BTW... it was more than 3 months after the copter when they came with a warrant.

 

[DankSide]

L OH FUCKING L he had a 400w GROW THATS PRACTICALLY A MICRO GROW...

if you guys are that fucking paranoid you should quit smoking/growing pot because it has obviously gotten to you....

there are murders, rapes, assaults, meth being made, herion being shot up, and crackheads cooking crack and you think they're worried about your 400w grow?

I had cops knocking on my door (Not in California either I've been here less than a year) with a 400w grow in my closet tellling me they smelled pot and to let them in i told them to fuck off, and they never came back i didn't chop my grow or anything i just went and got a can of ozium this is back before i knew what carbon filters or negative pressure was.... Just quit living your lives in fear people.

I tend to agree with this statement most of all.
I would be kinda pissed 'if' I had good genetics and small bushes going which
I had to chop down via the advice of someone who has not been in your exact shoes on the flyby.


Ultimately, it was your call - and stay safe, by all means, as you can see from mr. mike, some of us can get busted very randomly. The % chance that this will happen to you however, is VERY slim. Keep in mind, Mr. Mike wasn't busted by FLIR evidence alone, if they spent 50 grand building a case against this guy, then he must have slipped up here and there along the way. Having an extra setup of over 100 watt of fluorescents no doubt helped them lock on to the grow because it would be easier to get with with manufacturing with intent to sell if you have 2 grow areas rather than 1 small area. There are many ways other than FLIR to raise red flags about your grow - tell no one and don't throw your grow material in your own trash.


I feel you definitely got the raw end on this, but you did as you felt necessary. I would take Rezdog's advice with some sort of led sheeting, regroup and restart. Perhaps the weed you were smoking at the time was pretty strong on the paranoia end?
good luck man.

On the pro-paranoia side, is this a device that the public can get in any way? Could you imagine the devastation if a crook got ahold of one and went scouting to go rob any grow possible?

 

[SmokyMtnToker]

BAD advice

BAD advice

get a hunting spot light or something and beam it right at them next time they fly over just for shits and giggles.

dumb advice: NEVER shine any lights at a helicopter; Cops WILL hunt you down. I have seen cases locally where a man shined, just for a few seconds, a lazer pointer light at a copter and he got busted. Fast. trying to blind a military or civilian copter pilot will get the cops to your door quickly...they do not play.

Best advice: Don't sweat: Coprters are NOT allowed to fly around with FLIR on looking for heat sigs...Supreme Court already decided. If they are chasing a target, say a moron on foot running from them...and they happen by coincidence to see a bright heat sig from your home, they STILL would have to alert the cops, who would investigate and try to get corroborating evidence to get a warrant.

So mark this up to training and forget it...move the grow if you wish...caution is always best...but I am confident that you do not have to worry about FLIR from the sky unless you have a huge grow that stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[SmokyMtnToker]

Actually he could have fought the "private" copter for flight violations.
FAA regs require 500' altitude from tallest structure on land any closer than that and it is not only a violation of FAA regulations (they WILL take his license) but an invasion of privacy and trespassing (again FAA regulations state that you own 500' of airspace above your property)
police have some loopholes to break the 500' barrier but only if they are actively engaged in a warrant or pursuit of wanted individuals of an active crime.

any other activity by police copters is probably a neighbor saying "that looks like pot plants in the yard (your tomato plants), i will call the police"

or... a snitch.

just my

And HOW exactly would one ' fight' a charge of cultivation because the reporting pilot was a private entity? All one could do is report the pilot to the FAA and hope that someone could PROVE that he was flying too low...but that has NOTHING to do with the FACT that private pilots CAN and do report heat sigs from their copters, and that info is not held to the standards of LEO.

You cannot beat a charge just because a pilot flew too low...thats silly. The judge would say: Well, when you get out of jail, file a complaint with the FAA and see if they do anything". End of story.

 

[Lazyman]

Well, if you want to find out if it's the cops or not, try the red laser pointer, and use your palm to spark a Bic lighter in rapid succession outside. If it's cops, they'll be screaming up your street in minutes. If not, the pilot might just shit himself and run away! LOL

/Doesn't condone this, my brother told me a story about doing this once and yep, it was cops.

 

[blinx420]

Dude you did the right thing mr mike is right don't listen to this people trying to soften your worrys it's better to be safe then sorry if you have to grow illegally the cost and devastation it can cause to you and those living with you is very high had you gotten busted.

Buy your weed for the next 5 months if you suspect nothings up and are confident in growing worry free again get back to buisness but my advice would be to veg with those flourecents but use some type of cover that blocks heat and only flower during day hours from 6am to 6pm and you should be fine.

 

[Strainhunter]

OP before I moved to this island I lived in a large city with one of the highest "bust rates" in the country...if not THE highest (indoor) bust rate.

I had a custom built 500 Gallon Saltwater fish tank as a room divider in a 1 story house, this tank had 3x400 Watt lights burning 16 hours/day and the whole house including the fish tank was backed up by a generator...I have had so many low flying Heli fly overs - no one I know of in the area even bothered stepping outside when we heard one...

So yeah all I am saying IF they looked @ your house in to detail then they did so based on further intelligence and not just based on one (1) light you had burning...imagine how busy they would be looking at every home having fish-/and reptile tanks...or maybe just a stove or an oven baking a turkey...