Finish drying my bud in the freezer in my kitchen?!?

[Bobbo4200]

Smoke test was done after the freezer cured medicine was in the freezer for 8 days. The medicine that was done pretty much the normal way of curing (burping the jar), was smoke-tested after 9 days. I couldnt really tell the difference between the two, except maybe alittle more chloraphyl taste in the freezer cured. I think I would have to say the freezer cured got me more stoned though! &, Im not even sure if my freezer is a frost-free. I think I am going to continue to cure both ways...

 

[BongDaddy]

Hey JPG I hope you're still watching this thread. I was hoping to find an alternative method to the "standard" way of curing and I'm intrigued by this. I've seen lots of people post on lots of different threads that they would never freeze their buds because of the cellular damage that comes with freezing. But then you mentioned (can't remember if it was this thread or another one you commented in) that that's only an issue if you freeze the buds when totally wet. That makes sense to me, but I wonder - does the remaining moisture in the partially dried bud not cause any cellular damage, at least on a smaller scale? I suppose it's more of a rhetorical question, since your many different results posted seem to indicate that's not an issue.

Ed Rosenthal is a god in my eyes and my first ever grow was inspired by reading one of his books ("Closet Cultivator").

Have you ever noticed any issues if you leave the bud in the freezer too long? Or is there such a thing?

I have a flower cycle running right now and all the girls probably won't be done until a couple of days before I leave for a 20 day vacation. I'll probably have time to dry them a couple of days (and that probably should do the trick because I live in an area of pretty low RH), and then I'll be leaving before I get a chance to cure them properly using the standard method. I was actually starting to sweat it, wondering if I should just let them hang and get however dry while I'm gone, or to throw them in jars and hope I don't end up with too much mold. Your method seems perfect for my situation so I've read all your results etc. to learn as much as I could about it. Your "set it and forget it" comment is what really sold me, that's exactly what I was looking for.

A couple of questions - Have you ever experimented with NEVER opening the freezer for the entire cure time? I'm wondering what happens to the moisture that's sublimated from the buds if the freezer isn't opened occasionally to let it out.

Also, have you tried different temperatures in the freezer? My freezer has adjustable temperature (no numbers, just "Colder" and "Less Cold" on opposite ends of the dial lol). I'm curious if different temps (although all still below freezing) could speed up/slow down the process.

 

[jus'plain'gill]

Hey BongDaddy, I'll answer your questions more in depth after I get some inspiration from my new bongmomma.

Short answer: I've noticed no problems with pot left in the freezer for MONTHS (I will explain in detail) and I'm still smoking Kali Mist that was harvested then freezer dried 5-6 months ago and it is Awesome.

Freezer drying sounds perfect for your situation. Depending on how "dry" you let your weed get before it goes in the freezer, it can stay closed up in the freezer for 3+weeks before it's even dry enough to smoke, no attention required. A long, slow cure is what you're after anyway!!

Be back shortly.




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[jus'plain'gill]

Have you ever noticed any issues if you leave the bud in the freezer too long? Or is there such a thing?.

None at all though your weed will eventually get too dry. This process happens slowly though so I wouldn't be too worried about it. And after having it in jars for many months, I can tell you this stuff gets better as time goes by. It still has the perfect texture and hits nice and smooth leaving a clean, white ash and a smile on my face.

Have you ever experimented with NEVER opening the freezer for the entire cure time?

Yes. After a couple rounds of drying, once you have a better feel for the timing, it gets boring checking on the progress; much like watching paint dry. I did leave some moldy buds in the freezer for several months (been making iso with 'em) with no ill effects either, just very dry.

Also, have you tried different temperatures in the freezer? My freezer has adjustable temperature (no numbers, just "Colder" and "Less Cold" on opposite ends of the dial lol). I'm curious if different temps (although all still below freezing) could speed up/slow down the process.

Never did. Just put the semi-dried buds in there and let the process go. Temperature is only part of why this is so awesome, the fact that its a huge vacuum is another reason

Please experiment and report back with how it worked for you. I can't currently grow and will eventually be out of the meds but I still get pumped about it!




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[BongDaddy]

I sure will let you know how it goes. I've pretty much decided that the freezer method is what I'll be using. I don't leave until early July though, so it won't be until near the end of July that I'll have my results.

My only real worry is about the cat sitter we use when we go away for more than a couple of days. I know that no matter how much you think you trust someone, lots of people snoop when they have the opportunity. Do you think it would still work if I put the buds in some kind of cardboard box, and closed it but didn't seal it tight (still in the freezer of course)? Have you ever tried it using a closed box, or only open jars? I have no bud right now, so I can't even experiment on my own. I can't really see that as causing any harm, other than possibly lengthening the time needed to cure. I don't care if it's not cured "enough" by the time I get back. I can always do whatever to finish the cure then. I just want to avoid it getting overly dry while I'm gone.

Just curious about one other thing you mentioned - you said that the freezer is a "huge vacuum." I can see it being airtight (or at least pretty close, depending on the seal on your freezer door), but a vacuum? I would think that air pressure inside a freezer would be the same as outside. Or does cooling the air somehow reduce pressure inside the freezer?

 

[compost]

Good information on this thread

 

[jus'plain'gill]

I sure will let you know how it goes. I've pretty much decided that the freezer method is what I'll be using. I don't leave until early July though, so it won't be until near the end of July that I'll have my results.

I can't wait! I need the validation

Do you think it would still work if I put the buds in some kind of cardboard box, and closed it but didn't seal it tight (still in the freezer of course)? Have you ever tried it using a closed box, or only open jars?

That absolutely will work and is just how I did it. I used cardboard boxes, filled loosely with weed, then the "lid" closed (four flaps folded to close the top). It worked well.

Just curious about one other thing you mentioned - you said that the freezer is a "huge vacuum." I can see it being airtight (or at least pretty close, depending on the seal on your freezer door), but a vacuum? I would think that air pressure inside a freezer would be the same as outside. Or does cooling the air somehow reduce pressure inside the freezer?

You got me there. I had to dig the book out to make sure he used the word vacuum and he does: "...Then the bud is placed in a vacuum, and the ice is drawn off under the low pressure and evaporates." He is describing how freeze drying works and then he goes on to say: "You probably have a freeze dryer at home: it is the frost-free freezer attached to your refrigerator." I don't know what it is that makes the freezer a vacuum and I have no HVAC friends that could answer that question

I took a leap of faith and it paid off, big time. Odor control is EXTREMELY important to me and this allowed me to avoid building a drying cab/chamber while keeping the whole curing process 100% odorless. Quality finished product was also a main goal. I have pot that was dried and cured this way that is 7+ months old and it just keeps getting better! The more refined and potent aspects of the flavor and aroma of the Kali Mist has really come out in the last 2-3 months. I didn't separate the 4 different phenos so every bowl is a crap shoot but I come across crazy flavors like Coffee! The buzz still works too! I wouldn't say there is no tolerance buildup or no ceiling to the high but I am very happy that after smoking one strain for 6-7 months, all day everyday, it still gives me a good buzz every time.

Set it and forget it. End up with the exact end product that you are after. 99% fool proof. This should be the biggest thing since they started slicing bread.



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[BongDaddy]

Good enough for me. I still don't get the vacuum part, but I have no argument with the freeze dryer part. I see it every time I leave a steak in there too long and have to throw it out because it's all shriveled and dried out.

heh...makes me wonder if a person could make beef jerky in their freezer.

 

[DMTspice]

Great thread! I have some bud drying that's almost ready to cure thinking about trying this method on a small sample.

I read the entire thread, but may have missed something. Okay, so the process of sublimation, which from what I read is the process of transition of a substance from the solid phase to the gas phase without passing through a liquid phase. So after the 15 days of freezer drying, if you bend the stem, does it snap just like it would from a 15 jar cure? Not sure I understand how frozen water in the stem can evaporate into the air.

 

[BongDaddy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(phase_transition)

Basically it says that many different solids will sublime (transition from a solid directly to a gas), but water is unique in that it will happen at just under 0*C (32*F), the temperature at which most of our freezers are set. That's what "freezer burn" is - sublimation of moisture from your food. When you thaw food that has been freezer burned, the spots where it was "burned" will be dried out.

A simpler way to say it is that ice will evaporate just like water (although quite a bit slower), if it's at a temperature just below freezing.

 

[jus'plain'gill]

So after the 15 days of freezer drying, if you bend the stem, does it snap just like it would from a 15 jar cure? Not sure I understand how frozen water in the stem can evaporate into the air.

I didn't let my buds get dry enough to where the stem "snapped" but I did use the amount of flex in the stem as an indicator as to when they were dried enough. I would say I left as much moisture in the buds as I could without making mold growth likely over long term storage. I have buds that are still just as "fresh" as the day I put them in the jars they're in 6+months ago. It burns perfectly to a clean white ash but if there was too much more moisture you wouldn't be able to keep a joint lit, perfect. I figured it would take me a while to get through all this smoke and I didn't want to end up with dry, crumbly dust weed by the time I was getting towards the bottom of the last jars.

A simpler way to say it is that ice will evaporate just like water (although quite a bit slower), if it's at a temperature just below freezing.

BAM! That's where the snow is going when it's too cold to melt and not so windy that it's just evaporating.

There is hard science behind this method, I would love to see it more thoroughly explored and definitely wanna see it better documented!



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[DMTspice]

@ jus'plain'gill Just curious, where do you store your bud after it cures in the freezer for 15 days?

 

[repoocbd]

BAM! That's where the snow is going when it's too cold to melt and not so windy that it's just evaporating.

There is hard science behind this method, I would love to see it more thoroughly explored and definitely wanna see it better documented!

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Here is more of the hard science. Water is unique in the way it freezes. Water expands as it freezes causing it to take up more space than in liquid form. That is why an unopened can of soda left in a freezer will at minimum pop out the top and bottom and at worst explode the can itself. This happens because a water molecule has two opposing charges on opposite ends. When the molecules are above 32 degrees Fahrenheit they have enough kinetic energy to be able to overcome the attraction between the opposing charges and so flow past each other like any liquid. However below 32 degrees the amount of energy needed to break the attractive bonds is too low and so they begin to form a rigid pattern and expand as the molecules line up end to end connecting positive to negative charges. As this happens it will cause the moisture stuck in the center of the bud to be more evenly distributed across the entire bud. This is exactly what curing is supposed to do. The sublimation occurs because water molecules on the outer edge of the bud are exposed to moving air particles which will literally break off exposed water molecules and carry them away from the larger mass of ice they were a part of.

So when you think about it sublimation is more like erosion than evaporation, which occurs because the molecules get so excited they literally jump out of the water and get carried away in the atmosphere creating humidity.

 

[mrcreosote]

Mark the box in the freezer "Stool samples for Dr."

If that doesn't keep the cat-sitter away from the box, then you definitely need a new cat-sitter.

 

[mrcreosote]

Whoops... not worth a double post

 

[mrcreosote]

jus'plain'gill

Very good stuff here when waiting for a quality cure leaves you to smoke hay tasting uncured weed. 2-3 weeks is better than 6 when you're dry.

Should be stickied.

 

[BongDaddy]

@ repoocbd: I like your analogy with erosion. Makes a lot of sense. I guess I should have said that sublimation is similar to evaporation in *some* ways (amount of solid reducing, amount of water vapour increasing; amount of liquid reducing, amount of water vapour increasing). So in general terms it seems like the same thing is pretty much happening. On a molecular level it's not the same.

On your point about the water molecules "pushing out" and breaking off, is all sublimation like that, or is that unique to water?

@ mrcreosote: lol @ "stool sample". I just may do that!

 

[jus'plain'gill]

Here is more of the hard science. Water is unique in the way it freezes. Water expands as it freezes causing it to take up more space than in liquid form. That is why an unopened can of soda left in a freezer will at minimum pop out the top and bottom and at worst explode the can itself. This happens because a water molecule has two opposing charges on opposite ends. When the molecules are above 32 degrees Fahrenheit they have enough kinetic energy to be able to overcome the attraction between the opposing charges and so flow past each other like any liquid. However below 32 degrees the amount of energy needed to break the attractive bonds is too low and so they begin to form a rigid pattern and expand as the molecules line up end to end connecting positive to negative charges.

Excellent information!

As this happens it will cause the moisture stuck in the center of the bud to be more evenly distributed across the entire bud. This is exactly what curing is supposed to do.

THIS IS IMPORTANT!! I believe this is the reason this method works so well, so consistently!

jus'plain'gill

Very good stuff here when waiting for a quality cure leaves you to smoke hay tasting uncured weed. 2-3 weeks is better than 6 when you're dry.

Should be stickied.

This method will give you top-notch cured product. The fact that it is very easy and very simple is just the best damn coincidence! In other words, I would go to a lot more trouble to ensure a quality finished product but I am perfectly happy letting my freezer do all the work! Thank you for the vote of confidence mrcreosote.

Take care all,



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[Vape-pro]

do you then jar the buds after the freezer flash cure ? What happens after the freezer ?

 

[repoocbd]

On your point about the water molecules "pushing out" and breaking off, is all sublimation like that, or is that unique to water?

Yes BongDaddy essentially that is how all sublimation works. The molecules on the outer edge of the solid are broken off by air currents and carried away. What is unique about water is that it will take up more space when frozen, which increases the surface area exposed to the air currents.