Fermented plant extracts

[SeaMaiden]

AAAHHH!! My mom just wrote a book (Flavorful Fortified Foods), self-published, can't remember who through, and I don't recall if she's doing an eBook version or what.

I hadn't a clue about the e-reader technology stuff. However, I'm able to perform these functions (highlighting, notations and comments, etc) through the Kindle app easily. I'm also able to search the book easily. I'm curious what other functionality exists that I'm not aware of.

I've been involved in publication of books (hardcopy, as an editor mostly, somewhat technical/informational kind of stuff). Working with multiple authors and editors made creating the actual book not so much a breeze. There were other issues with the printing and actual typesetting and proofing, as I'm a bit anal about that sort of thing and a few things got past the others that wouldn't have gotten past me, but that's another story entirely!

How many people really sit at their computer to read a book? It's what I love about the Tablets/e-Readers, they're pretty much just as portable as a book, and I dislike sitting at the computer to do things like read or watch a movie or other program.

I think this is causing quite the thread digression. My apologies.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

Here's one feature that I find helpful. On those iOS devices which fully support iOS 5.x, voice-to-text is supported in every application where you can enter text - search engine in a browser, text editors, etc. This also works in those readers which allow you to make comments on Bookmarks or Notes. You simply hit the button and begin speaking and if you don't try to talk like a robot or a computer you'll hit 99% accuracy other than those words which are not in the mainstream like mycorrhizae and such.

But the real differences come in the Search capabilities and how you're allowed to frame the search text string. Some only allow a single word and you have to go through a huge list of possible links (like using Google for example).

The real powerhouses are the search engines when running Lynx through your TCL or whatever it's called this week on the Windows OS. Lynx can search 10,000 documents (single spaced) in less than 3 seconds regardless of the search parameters. This is helpful if you're trying to move through a collection of PDF from a school or foundation.

Reference Miner is a good example. Here's the blab on this application: Reference Miner searches the Internet to find and display reference information from PubMed, Amazon (US, UK, Germany, France, Canada, Japan, Italy, and China), Google Scholar, JSTOR (requires access privileges and ip authentication) and the Library of Congress.

Duck soup!

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Back to botanical concoctions - here's one I learned about this morning: Earth Juice SoyFul

Here's their description: A liquid plant nutrient produced from fermented soybeans to be used as part of a complete fertilization program through all stages of plant development. For Indoor/Outdoor plants. Soil and especially recommend for use in hydroponics and foliar sprays.

Fermented soybeans? You mean like soy sauce?

LMAO

CC

 

[Scrappy4]

Back to botanical concoctions - here's one I learned about this morning: Earth Juice SoyFul

Here's their description: A liquid plant nutrient produced from fermented soybeans to be used as part of a complete fertilization program through all stages of plant development. For Indoor/Outdoor plants. Soil and especially recommend for use in hydroponics and foliar sprays.

Fermented soybeans? You mean like soy sauce?

LMAO

CC

I don't know what that stuff is either but since soybean meal cost me $18 per hundred lb bag, I must be sitting on a gold mine. And to think I have been wasting it on my lawn..........scrappy

 

[Microbeman]

MM

Before I ask you about fermentation, what is your understanding of baker's yeast (aka brewer's yeast), i.e. Saccharomyces cerevisiae?

Fungi?

CC

Hi Coot;

There are some who do not like calling yeast a fungi (you know who). I see it grow into hyphae all the time so I do call it fungi as many scientists do. If I recognize that it is hyphae which has developed from yeast cells, I call it yeast fungal hyphae. When I see it in individual cell form, I call it yeast cells.

 

[Microbeman]

Wanted to sneak a question in, before the fireworks.

Has anyone experimented with extractions in vinegar? I have some accident blackberry vinegar and not much literature is out there, but I am interested in the acetic acid reaction and fermentation. Just an educated guess: The hydrogen is liberated leaving a carboxyl group, similar to a terpenoid structure?

It is interesting cooking poppy sap in viegar <smirk>

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Hi Coot;

There are some who do not like calling yeast a fungi (you know who). I see it grow into hyphae all the time so I do call it fungi as many scientists do. If I recognize that it is hyphae which has developed from yeast cells, I call it yeast fungal hyphae. When I see it in individual cell form, I call it yeast cells.

MM

I've watched more than one flame war on bread forums over this question. Pretty funny actually.

So here's my questions since we agree that this is a fungi:

Would the cold temperatures used to retard the bread dough provide a similar benefit in the area of enzyme production in a different material like say kelp meal?

Would the cold temperatures affect the growth rate as it can in some methods of fermenting where bacteria plays a dominant role?

I should also add that in the fermenting of bread doughs, airborne lactobacillus strains play an important role as well. Could that be where the enzymes are coming from vs. the yeast?

I think I'm on to something rather interesting using 2 different forms of malts derived from sprouted barley seeds. Really interesting actually.

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

This same retardation of fermentation technique is used when brewing some ales, beers, and especially lagering. I use the technique when I want to make beignets, they're really best planned for the night ahead so the dough can sit in the bottom of the fridge overnight.

The result is FLAVOR for us humans. What other results can we expect, see, or experience?

I've also been doing some interesting reading on diastatic malt, and I'm really surprised that my sister, who partially paid her way through college working at a bakery near the Carlton campus in Minnesota, and who taught me a great deal about how I CAN make pretty darn good breads, has never mentioned it. Not once. Even when she was living in west Oakland and had begun making her own sourdoughs that were every bit as tasty as what you'd expect to get out of one of the San Francisco commercial bakeries, she never mentioned using any other form of fungi food.

So, I guess I'm gonna get myself the diastatic, because it would be good to do a side-by-side comparing that with malted barley extract and molasses. IF I were (legally) able, I would compare several sugars, starting with molasses and ending with white cane sugar.

Back to botanical concoctions - here's one I learned about this morning: Earth Juice SoyFul

Here's their description: A liquid plant nutrient produced from fermented soybeans to be used as part of a complete fertilization program through all stages of plant development. For Indoor/Outdoor plants. Soil and especially recommend for use in hydroponics and foliar sprays.

Fermented soybeans? You mean like soy sauce?

LMAO

CC

When we had our granddaughter living with us, I discovered that she is gluten-intolerant. Through that experience, I learned that soy sauce should be called WHEAT SAUCE.

What about the phytoestrogens in soy, along with all the other compounds people are extracting from this bean?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

Yamasa has their USA headquarters a few miles south in Salem, Oregon. What I learned from a factory tour is that like everything else terms like 'soy sauce' can have a number of meanings depending on which area of Asia you're looking at, commitment to the old ways vs. high-production, etc.

There's a couple of tofu shops in Portland and one has been around since 1908 and they produce the Japanese style tofus as well as a couple of soy sauce products. It sure doesn't taste like Yamasa or Kikkoman that's for sure.

If you need wheat-free then look at the Japanese Tamari style sauces. A trip to a large Asian supermarket can be quite instructive on how many versions of soy sauce are available - Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Japanese, Thai, etc. Pretty amazing and reading the labels is mandatory.

RE: Diastic Malt

My (very) limited understanding is that the malts from brew stores are non-diastic malt. Not that I know how that impacts a ferment in another application. Historically bakers and beer brewers in Germany were linked tightly because getting 'yeast' wasn't what it is today, i.e. there wasn't any commercial yeast until a couple of German brothers immigrated to the USA and perfected a process and thus Fleischman's Yeast was born around 1865. That changed the whole dynamic of bread production.

The best book that I can recommend for learning how to bake artisan-style breads is The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread by Peter Reinhart. By the time you get through the formulas you will know enough about breads to teach classes.

I was one of his testers for another book he wrote Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Bread: New Techniques, Extraordinary Flavor and if you follow his formulas on pre-ferments, soakers, etc. you'll know how to use whole grains and not need to use massive amounts of sugar (in whatever form) to override the tannins. Most whole wheat bread isn't all that healthy when you calculate the empty carbohydrates from the added sugars. He teaches you how to pull the sugars in the wheat to the forefront and now you'll have a bread that tastes like wheat - weird concept I know.

CC

 

[Microbeman]

MM

I've watched more than one flame war on bread forums over this question. Pretty funny actually.

So here's my questions since we agree that this is a fungi:

Would the cold temperatures used to retard the bread dough provide a similar benefit in the area of enzyme production in a different material like say kelp meal?

Would the cold temperatures affect the growth rate as it can in some methods of fermenting where bacteria plays a dominant role?

I should also add that in the fermenting of bread doughs, airborne lactobacillus strains play an important role as well. Could that be where the enzymes are coming from vs. the yeast?

I think I'm on to something rather interesting using 2 different forms of malts derived from sprouted barley seeds. Really interesting actually.

CC

I'm not going to be of much help here as I've never really experimented with precise temperature control outside of keeping fermentations warm.

Both bacteria and fungi create enzymes so....

Are you thinking that if one induced cold that the microbial division retarding effects of kelp (in a liquid) might be limited?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

MM

Dr. Michael Guiry is a marine biologist who lives and works in Ireland. The Irish historically and currently consume a lot of 'seaweed' in their diet so his site is definitely oriented towards that discussion but not entirely.

If you hit the Nutrition button on the left menu you will see a chart comparing the different seaweed (kelp - whatever) families that are commercially harvested: Brown, Green & Red and it's in the differences on the Alginic acid, Fucoidan, Floridoside and Mannitol that I'm trying to work with. To keep actually in the fermentation process. They're completely and totally lost with the seaweed extract powders and 99% of what is sold as 'liquid seaweed' or 'liquid kelp' is rehydrated seaweed extract and usually some junk Soluble Potash to bump up the Potassium numbers on the label.

This site should appeal to you because like you he's a scientist and his work is well documented and cited as well around the world.

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

Some of these algae sites are used by the folks at WetWebMedia. I believe there's also an algae dot org or algaebase dot org, which is just like fishbase.org.

Mmm... refugia material.

 

[greenmatter]

HELP!

i was re reading and trying to figure out how to dilute a comfrey FPE. i do get that every brew is a unique but i am seeing mixing ratios from 1:500 and up to 10%. (i know that those are mixed numbers from both foliar and drench ..... i think )

i am no math wiz but that is a really big ball park

could i get an assist from the experts?

 

[heady blunts]

dilute it until it is light colored and transparent, and the smell is more like a horse barn then a fresh pile of pig shit.

you do NOT need a lot, so err on the side of 500:1.

getting heavy handed with FPE will fry your plants.

 

[durgahands]

excellent comfrey plant seller N Carolina

excellent comfrey plant seller N Carolina

Hey,

This fellow at Coe's Comfrey really has a lot of knowledge.

His website is a little old fashioned but the info is spot on well documented.

The roots I purchased were quite large, mature, and healthy.

Both Bocking # 14 and #4 are sterile/non invasive types.

The differences between
his bocking #4 and bocking #14 are
interesting to note that
#14 is more shallow rooted thus prone to drought.

Best advice from Coe' Comfrey was to drip irrigate it in the heat.
I see that as a teriffic idea given I can hardly water enough in this heat.

Coe's Comfrey also stated that
Bocking #4 produces more leaf mass than bocking #14
Bocking #4 has a slightly lower allantoin content to the leaf; but it has more protein than #14 which is why he chose #4 to grow when he started his farm in the 80's.

He uses comfrey to feed his chickens and goats and himself.
I especially like to drink the tea or slushies.

I really like this man, as he is a very generous plant seller.

His page is informative.

http://www.coescomfrey.com/Coes_Comfrey___General_Information.html


Hth

 

[Microbeman]

wasnt trying to question the quality of fresh material, just wondering about its solubility in water. i guess blending would make it soluble anyway

sorry to get off topic

thank you for wonderful info CC and MM

Amber, I started a simple test on fresh horsetail this morning to see what it feeds.

 

[laundryboy]

i'm so sorry, you believe if i took some seaweed i will have problems with salt? can i use scrabs with lacto? somebody know and use Aloysia triphylla (hierba luisa).

 

[ClackamasCootz]

EcoTrol

ECOTROL is a concentrated insecticide/miticide labeled for use in agricultural crops against a broad range of pests, including but not limited to mites, aphids, whiteflies and thrips. The advanced chemistry of ECOTROLTM is an ideal foundation for an effective Integrated Pest Management (IPM) program.

So what's in it? What does the label say?

Active Ingredients:

Rosemary Oil - 10.00%
Peppermint Oil - 2%
Other Ingredients - 88%

Other Ingredients: Wintergreen Oil, Vanillin, Lecithin, Butyl Lactate

Application rates at the link

But does it work?

Efficacy and persistence of rosemary oil as an acaricide against twospotted spider mite (Acari: Tetranychidae) on greenhouse tomato

Faculty of Land and Food Systems
University of British Columbia
2357 Main Mall
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Abstract

Efficacy of rosemary, Rosmarinus officinalis L., essential oil was assessed against twospotted spider mite, Tetranychus urticae Koch (Acari: Tetranychidae), as well as effects on the tomato, Lycopersicum esculatum Mill., host plant and biocontrol agents.

Laboratory bioassay results indicated that pure rosemary oil and EcoTrol (a rosemary oil-based pesticide) caused complete mortality of spider mites at concentrations that are not phytotoxic to the host plant. The predatory mite Phytoseiulus persimilis Athias-Henriot is less susceptible to rosemary oil and EcoTrol than twospotted spider mite both in the laboratory and the greenhouse. Rosemary oil repels spider mites and can affect oviposition behavior. Moreover, rosemary oil and rosemary oil-based pesticides are nonpersistent in the environment, and their lethal and sublethal effects fade within 1 or 2 d. EcoTrol is safe to tomato foliage, flowers, and fruit even at double the recommended label rate.

A greenhouse trial indicated that a single application of EcoTrol at its recommended label rate could reduce a twospotted spider mite population by 52%. At that rate, EcoTrol did not cause any mortality in P. persimilis nor did it affect their eggs. In general, EcoTrol was found to be a suitable option for small-scale integrated pest management programs for controlling twospotted spider mites on greenhouse tomato plants

IOW - these oils kill the herbivore mites and not the predatory mites.

There are other studies out of British Columbia where the majority of greenhouse produce is grown - tomatoes, some lettuces, so-called 'hot-house cukes' (aka English Cukes which is a pretty big slam on Great Britian), the color varieties of bell peppers, etc. These studies compared EcoTrol against synthetic pesticides and EcoTrol was shown to be more effective and given the short time to degrade (hours vs. weeks) it is completely safe.

Hydrocarbons and such

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

Hmmm... and I think I have some lecithin on hand (have xylitol as well, haven't broken into it, keep forgetting), and my husband might either have the butyl lactate on hand or could source it easily. I'm assuming they're emulsifiers for the most part, perhaps adding sticker/spreader/surfactant qualities to the mix. I can't remember if I got the peppermint oil when I visited the health food shop, or rosemary oil.

Hmmmm...! In the meantime, I think it's time for some of my gluten-free blueberry muffins.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

That wasn't really the point of the post, i.e. buying oils but if that's the way you want to go then hit Mountain Rose Herbs in Eugene, Oregon. They have almost every botanical oil you could come up with and then some.

Much, much less expensive than a health food store by leaps and bounds.

CC