Feminized Seeds vs. Regular Seeds

[wrongwrong]

No Im saying DocLeaf is...get off your high horse bro, youre name says it all...

Haha docleaf.... haha sorry that to me is a bit much! (Mr Wags would of been a better option!)... not on any horse.. just when the higher echelons of IC start sprouting off utter nonsense, I will counter it.

whats in a name? whys it so offensive? counter the points not the name!.. football herb 2004 to me is a silly name? but whats that got to to do with the discussion?

since not one of you naysayers has any discussions.. all you can say is its not natural... pffff

 

[CalcioErba2004]

Haha docleaf.... haha sorry that to me is a bit much! (Mr Wags would of been a better option!)... not on any horse.. just when the higher echelons of IC start sprouting off utter nosense, I will counter it.

whats in a name? whys it so offensive? counter the points not the name!.. football herb 2004 to me is a silly name? but whats that got to to do with the discussion?

since not one of you naysayers has any discussions.. all you can say is its not natural... pffff

Mrwags woulda been a good choice as well. I have spoken with Docleaf and he knows a lot and has proven this...who are you again? What have you proven to this community that we must accept what you say as gospel? Seriously though watch Kindergarten Cop...Boys have penises and girls have vaginas...Im not gonna get into it with you, you arent worth the energy or the bandwidth...I am a purist and you grow whatever you want, just keep your estropollen away from my plants. Thank you!

 

[wrongwrong]

Mrwags woulda been a good choice as well. I have spoken with Docleaf and he knows a lot and has proven this...who are you again? What have you proven to this community that we must accept what you say as gospel? Seriously though watch Kindergarten Cop...Boys have penises and girls have vaginas...Im not gonna get into it with you, you arent worth the energy or the bandwidth...I am a purist and you grow whatever you want, just keep your estropollen away from my plants. Thank you!

Please go mod the chatroom and get someone with proper knowledge in here.... maybe Charles X .. oh no he got drove away... I've been here under many ids as the message is not liked.. you are quite wrong again though.. every female can express itself as a male.. but that does not make everything intersex, its only docleaf who refuses to believe a certain "cheese" plant will reverse.. it has wet pollen type!.. still produces balls though..

@ growhi you stated about the male being here for a reason it is here for that mostly for survival ie canna is an outcrossing species.. hence all the Y flower morphs are designed just for that to outcross...

I will leave you with some posts of Charles X though I don't go with everything he states, I can agree with him on most.

The purpose of the 'Y' chromosome is the same as that of the 'X', to pass on genetic information to the offspring, that result in traits that ensure the plants' survival.

In the wild, survival is often a race against time and other environmental factors. Seeds need to be set before the plant expires. There needs be a hormonal shift in a 'female' plant in order for it to produce pollen; under normal circumstances this shift will not occur if the plant is already pollinated and when this shift does occur, the plant is facing some serious enviromental pressure and responding to it.

What this means is: landrace 'females' (true), will only produce 'male' flowers if other sources of pollen (pollination) are not available. Even though this is an insurance mechanism designed to cope with environmental disaster, it is not successful all the time. Some true 'females' will produce staminate flowers too late in the season, or are too resistant to stress and produce very little amounts of pollen (low staminate flower count), and therefore not enough seeds are produced for a sustainable population. In any case, this is a reason why the 'Y' chromosome exists.

The 'Y' chromosome ensures that lots of pollen is available, early enough in the plants' respective life cycles, to make certain that genetic information from both parents are passed down to the progeny. It then stands to reason that traits like vigour, early and short maturation times, responsiveness to photoperiod, and yield are likely linked to the 'Y' chromosome.

The ability to spread genetic information successfully is important to survival. A plant that produces abundant pollen at the appropriate time has an advantage over others that don't ('male' or 'female'); its genetic material will more likely be passed on. However, adaptation is dependent on maintaining/increasing genetic diversity.

Evolutionarily speaking, having separate sources for genetic information (two parents) is a good thing; and a very good way to ensure diversity is to separate plants that produce copious amounts of pistillate flowers from plants that produce copious amounts of staminate flowers, both physically and preferably genetically.

Sincerely,
Charles."

... you just need a female plant, but one that has thrown off a few male bananas ... the pollen in those male bananas is already 'feminised' pollen
As a point of elaboration: The implication read in the above statement is that the plant in question is a true female, that underwent some degree of stress, that resulted in the formation of a few male flowers, and not a spontaneous, genetically controlled hermaphrodite.

The former case results in feminized offspring from seed; the later, in offspring that carry the spontaneous hermaphrodite gene. All female Cannabis plants have the ability to produce male flowers, it is an insurance mechanism that cannot be bred out.

Quote:
The degree to which any particular plant displays a hermaphroditic response to stress is strain dependant.
An extrapolation of this statement is: because you've bred feminized plants, doesn't mean that you didn't also inadvertently breed plants with a tendency towards hermaphroditism. Observation and accurate, detailed record keeping will reduce the likelyhood of this occuring (unless its intentional; the truly outstanding drug cultivars from Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos are hermaphrodites).

Spontaneous hermaphroditic females are not the "female with one male flower". One can be reasonably assured that if a female plant displays only one male flower, then she is quite stress resistant, and is therefore suitable for feminization experiments.

However, like all other breeding, the outcome can only be an educated guess, until the completion of progeny tests.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. I trust that the self-quote will not be perceived as arrogance. I referenced it so as to redirect to the previous post.

C.X.

find those stress resistant ones.

 

[bobman]

wrongwrong, so selection causes the variation. Is this true in both fems and regular or will fems always show less variation.

 

[wrongwrong]

wrongwrong, so selection causes the variation. Is this true in both fems and regular or will fems always show less variation.

Yes but with regard to fems I'd say it depends on how they have been produced. A selfed lot will be dependent on the selected "female" and how it segregates... say you order some Critical mass fems.. you don't know how they have been bred.. it would be helpful if the breeders were clear and stated if its a select individual that stood out and was selfed.. or if it was from a line of female plants.. I suspect most do the self route as its the quickest and provides them with $$ which TBH is what most care for... If bred right in a gynoecious line (female x female) I don't see why variation cannot be maintained.. I have a line called heath that I have maintained in a fem manner and a reg manner.. I will persue it further with a fem tech... and narrow it down, so I am in effect bottlenecking it.. though variation is maintained from the previous lot, and if many females were used I would say it would show variety.. The reg ones were selected males were used and again bottlenecked thru selective pressure show less variation.. to me theres no proof either way.. so therefore no reason against using fem pollen!

For instance with Chimera lines that came from the latest BB batch from DJ had female pollen used in them!... I found a good amount of variation in my packs...

I understand that some say the male brings vigour, variation etc etc.. I'm yet to be convinced of this... though I note SamS still use his males!!

I personally feel that any method of improvement should be used...

maybe MrWags is best to answer as he makes a living off fems... perhaps he'd care to say how some of his lines are produced?

or as Chimera has maintained both perhaps he could comment? but then again he has commented before on this in other threads...

If a given female is good enough to use as a female (mother in a breeding scheme), why would she not be good enough to use as a pollen source?

 

[wrongwrong]

lets look at it another way .. say you buy some fem seeds and some reg ones you breed them all out and the fem of fems is on the fem bought side! are non of the naysayers gonna hit it with male pollen? and select it, perhaps self it? or is it a cull to you?

 

[growhi]

@ growhi you stated about the male being here for a reason it is here for that mostly for survival ie canna is an outcrossing species.. hence all the Y flower morphs are designed just for that to outcross...

but why would it need males for survival ? the females can do both just as good so males are obsolet !! useless !!

but thats the thing isnt it the plants dont do it naturaly you have to spray them with chemicals first lol

its a unnatural process ! nothing that would happen in the wild would recreate a plant gettin dowst in coildial sliver would it ?

you can cut and paste any bile about y and x and blar blar blar but when you get down to brass tacs its just some dude makein a plant hermie lol

 

[wrongwrong]

but why would it need males for survival ? the females can do both just as good so males are obsolet !! useless !!

but thats the thing isnt it the plants dont do it naturaly you have to spray them with chemicals first lol

its a unnatural process ! nothing that would happen in the wild would recreate a plant gettin dowst in coildial sliver would it ?

you can cut and paste any bile about y and x and blar blar blar but when you get down to brass tacs its just some dude makein a plant hermie lol

you do know how we got cannabis to the state its now in? thru manipulation! you clearly have not even bothered to look up what was rec'd to you ie how dioecy evolved.. you havn't even bothered with charles x posts but you call me ignorant? you should of read them at least, esp the bit were a fem goes into reversal to survive!

 

[bobman]

Its funny how breeding works. I have 2 slh that lean to the haze side and I have 3 that are what I call lanky indica leaning. They all smell the exact same in flower but dry one of the haze ones smells like rosemary on the outside of the bag and when you open it it smell like peppery spices. There seems to be a ton of variation in SLH, even a purple pheno. What does this say about Greenhouses breeding? Have they just not worked the line good enough? Should there be a lot less variation?

 

[growhi]

you do know how we got cannabis to the state its now in? thru manipulation! , esp the bit were a fem goes into reversal to survive!

manipulations as in hybridizin !!! nothing more than breedin as we do with animals !!

and yesss excatly reversel for servival !!! a last gasp !!! a death throw ! a last harar ! a final throw of the dice !!

to say a plants death throw a plants last gasp is goin to be as good, as efficant, as healthy !! as a plant that nature inteneded to do the same job is whats ignorant !!

lets all reverse males with chemicals and smoke the bud it will be just as good as female bud wont it ?

 

[wrongwrong]

lets all reverse males with chemicals and smoke the bud it will be just as good as female bud wont it ?

ssssssuushhhh don't let SamS know!....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597

ps.. hope you know in all liklihood god don't exist!

 

[growhi]

whats your point ? i know its possible nevile has been doin it for years but is it as good as female bud ?? answers no !!

can do just about anything with hormones and chemicals !!

they can make male humans into females with the right hormones !

and come on would you really smoke that crap full of filthy chemicals no disrespect to sam but hes hardly a chemist is he him saying to should be ok hardly would put my mind at ease lol

keep it natural baby nature knows best not dope heads ;p

 

[wrongwrong]

whats your point ? i know its possible nevile has been doin it for years but is it as good as female bud ?? answers no !!

can do just about anything with hormones and chemicals !!

they can make male humans into females with the right hormones !

and come on would you really smoke that crap full of filthy chemicals no disrespect to sam but hes hardly a chemist is he him saying to should be ok hardly would put my mind at ease lol

keep it natural baby nature knows best not dope heads ;p

you miss a lot of points maybe thats the point... maybe you should bother to read the thread of SamS.. and no one is saying to smoke chemicals... since you like males you may of found it useful.

 

[DocLeaf]

Haha docleaf.... haha sorry that to me is a bit much!

Yo. You do NOT know me. Please take my name out your mouth or address me directly as and when you speak on open forums such as these

Fritillary Seed Collective have test-grown feminized seeds for / courtesy of many professional feminized seed companies (the industries biggest, from Magus to Green House to the Dutch-Spanish outlets like Dinafem and Royal Queen). More over we have bred with ,, and tested the viability of feminized clone stock in breeding with regular seed stock males to produce positives results before . Not just hearsay you read by idiots and haters on forums... we actually did it already and can make rational comment on the subject.

The project was called Painted Lady ! Although if you google it you'll just find photos of a butterflies.. lol

"Breeder" is a loaded word IMO.. people grow plants,, and some of them make seeds. Try not to hold such people aloft too far above the rest of us peasants making seeds. They are just cannabis growers after all... and our seeds are proven to be better (x100) than a hundred other "breeders" out there.. lmfao

Btw,, you folks should take ya OLD ranting debate to pms .. (and smile more and have fun like I am here with icons) :friends:

This icon /emotion was removed,, but they bought it back kids !! its crazy

All the best... DocLeaf

 

[growhi]

you miss a lot of points maybe thats the point... maybe you should bother to read the thread of SamS.. and no one is saying to smoke chemicals... since you like males you may of found it useful.

why would i wanna use chemicals to reverse males ??

its a mugs game useing all this chemical shit !!

just pick your best males, your best females, and let them do there thing !!

just like mother nature intended lol

large selections is how you find greatness its that simple

 

[DocLeaf]

Please KEEP THE PEACE .. we all on the same side!

 

[ReelBusy1]

after vegging for like 8 weeks, then flowering for another 2, only to find out 2 out of 3 are MALES...that's when you stop using standard beans. Most people use clones though. I don't. So I need to be sure what I'm growing will give me medicine. It's my first time getting feminized seed but I think I'm looking at white rhino...I need a good indica with strong production and hybrid vigour. I'll probably get a 5 pack. I think feminized 5 packs are really the way to go.

You are wasting time.
during veg you take clones and run them out at 12 hrs to sex the plants
FYI

 

[Herbal extasy]

You are wasting time.
during veg you take clones and run them out at 12 hrs to sex the plants
FYI

Unrooted clones will flower without problems?

 

[High Country]

Ah yes , the good old fem seed thread. It's actually quite simple to make your own.

1. One must start with a very stable female plant. One that can take a lot of light, nute, water and general abuse without turning hermie. I'm lucky and have one.
2. Take clones of that plant.
3. Reverse that mum with Colloidal Silver, STS or whatever. I found Colloidal Silver works quite well.
4. The mums will reverse and use the pollen to fuck its clone daughter. That's right, mum fucks daughter.
5. There can only be one result, sure one is a she male but its pollen has identical xx chromosomes as its daughter.
6. The seeds produced are feminized and a copy of itself.

COLLOIDAL SILVER

SPRAYED MUM

REVERSAL STARTING

FULL REVERSAL

POLLEN COLLECTED

APPLIED TO THE MUMS FLOWERING DAUGHTER

FEMINIZED SEED PRODUCED

THEY GERMINATE

GROW INTO THIS...FEMALE

LET'S CLONE HER

NO PROBLEMS...ALL GIRLS...IDENTICAL TO MOM...ALWAYS BE GOOD TO YOUR MOTHER

Give it a go.

 

[roach]

oh god, someone had to stir this up again and im out of popcorn

feminized seeds quality is 100% based on the parents chosen, just like regulair seeds, so there will be bad seeds and good seeds, debating whats best is like debating if apples or oranges tastes best

but what i realy find strange is when you see femmed F1 hybrids where one part is a clone only male, like all the G13xHaze hybrids, or a certain companys lemon skunk (not greenhouse) where they just took the description from the regular seeds and used for the femmed ones, and half of it is one long praise of this very special male used, but it cant have been that male they used for the femmed seeds, things like that make me suspicios, so i never buy femmed seeds where one of the parents is known a male only plant