Extinction by Hybridization: The Cannabis Biodiversity Crisis

[White Beard]

hybridization is far and away the biggest cause of biodiversity loss in Cannabis

above all, introducing non-native seed to Asia

tbh, the biggest threat to landraces right now is people bringing or shipping hybrid seeds to Asia, Africa etc.

they're who's trashed everything

The point, if I have one, is that hybridization might not have become dominant in a situation where normal cultivation was safe/protected. No question that hybridization has vastly overused certain genetics while displacing more normal methods of reproduction or that spoiling wild crops with our limited ‘modern’ seeds was and is a really bad idea.

I am here to learn, so I’ll get quiet and do that.

 

[ngakpa]

edited

 

[ngakpa]

The point, if I have one, is that hybridization might not have become dominant in a situation where normal cultivation was safe/protected. No question that hybridization has vastly overused certain genetics while displacing more normal methods of reproduction or that spoiling wild crops with our limited ‘modern’ seeds was and is a really bad idea.

I am here to learn, so I’ll get quiet and do that.

I recommend checking out the links, where you can read authoritative information from experts in the field.

Indigenous Asian populations hold the vast majority of the biodiversity of Cannabis.

For "marijuana", that's especially the case.

Point is, bringing hybrids and non-native strains to these places is wiping out the genetic diversity, permanently.

Irreversible loss of biodiversity occurrs through a process known as introgressive hybridization (“the infiltration of genes between taxa through the bridge of F1 hybrids.”)

Another name for this process known is ‘genetic swamping‘.

That's when regional genotypes are replaced by hybrids, permanently annihilating millennia of genetic diversity.

A classification of endangered high-THC cannabis (Cannabis sativa subsp. indica) domesticates and their wild relatives
https://phytokeys.pensoft.net/article/46700/element/5/31/

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Hey Bud, glad you chimed in. I am an old guy too and have the same experiences. A comment was made about the couchlock stuff always being there. I dont remember it that way do you ? or any of you other older guys and gals? I recently heard the newer hybrid crap effects being described as " Dirty" and I think that is a good way to put it. Regardless of where in the world the smoke came from it was always clean and complex. And thats what I was getting at with the Sinai Ngakpa. The stuff I just finished glued me to the couch, had me on the verge of a headache and rung me out. The whole next day was trashed. That didnt happen in the 13th century. Never had experiences like that untill the hybrids came along. Not here trying to trash your efforts at all. Just having a discussion and hoping maybe we can all figure out ways to preserve this stuff. One thing that I have issues with is people doing repros with this stuff outdoors, especially in legal states where all kinds of pollen is flying and now we have Hemp adding to the problem. I really think that if we are to get serious about preserving what is left of the Land Races that it will require some serious evaluation of methods of preservation, probably at least do this indoors to be sure we are not inadvertantly diluting the genepool

Ah sory rembetis that was me who made that couch lock stuff always being around comment..I should have been alitle clearer in wat I ment.....ther have been for example in Pakistan or Afghanistan an others some very narcotic plants that have been there for along long time....I know in some countries plants like these were used as medication for certain ailments before prohibition....so these types have always been around too....there is alot of different types out ther that have probably been around for hundreds of years in some form..

 

[Rembetis]

Dark Storm,
no problem, I dont disagree with you and you arent the only one that has said that. Its just that in the old days (70's) or even thru the 80's whether it was hash or bud we didnt get the hangover or headache effects.

 

[Rembetis]

edited

 

[Storm Shadow]

My new Iranians that i got in 2019... they have a very clear high and uplifting... not the most potent by any means.. doesnt even really hit u for like 10-15 min after u smoke.

I thought it was weak sauce at first... then I realized u can smoke this shit all day and still stay motivated to get shit done..I smoke OG or any Kush early in the day I get lazy and feel kinda assed out later on... no crashing effect at all from the Landrace herb

I get lab results on 5 phenos in the next 48 hours.. 1st time ever in history landrace Iranians been lab tested in the western hemisphere
.. no polluted genetics over here... str8 pure

 

[Rembetis]

thats the thing about Landraces, not the most potent but yet they have very nuanced and complex qualities about them. Always have a very pleasant aspect to them

 

[Rembetis]

edited

 

[CannaZen]

Never before have these land races been so available. Through hybridization their genetics are being preserved.

 

[El Timbo]

Some of you don't seem to be getting the point of this thread...

 

[Wild Seed]

Continual hybridization does not expand the genepool, like continual inbreeding. When there's 1000s of polyhybrids based on very few classic strains, there's only so far they can be stretched. I guess recurring dominant genes will become commonplace.

Most in the business have put faith in the man made product and forgotten the potential and properties of the raw materials. When removing a plant that's evolved to a particular environment but doesn't fit our lamps, breeders goals are to select for short cycles or greater weight at the cost of limiting the diversity by genetic bottle necking, and often the effect too. Clones, fems, autos and the removal of males are all contributing to this problem by reducing the plants ability to reproduce and recombine through seed.

Illegality and stigma have left the public uninformed, industry and pharmaceuticals careless, and Cannabis doesn't seem to exist in any ecosystem to many in the scientific and conservationist communities. It's place is the market, and the natural competitors have already been pushed out. With more breeders by the day compiling hybrid upon polyhybrid, I'd prefer to see each working fewer lines in different directions, and to share the parental building blocks of their hybrids to prevent the risk of losing entire lines.

Were Cannabis legal Worldwide, I'd expect to see an export and tourism market in cultivars grown in their native region. There'd still be domestic markets in hybrids. If pollen and seeds could be easily sourced from these wild-type populations for making hybrids, but not the other way around, this would remain sustainable. The culture would need to change so that such outdoor landraces and heirlooms are in demand by consumers seeking a mature smoke as to incentivize farmers and conservationists to maintain 'pure/local' accessions. Landraces don't need hybridizing to succeed in their own environment, and protections by nation (like the EU PDO) could help to prove authenticity.

Until then I'd say make and save seeds from however many males you have within a line, whether landrace, IBL or hybrid. Though diversity is lower than ideal, such isolated populations can be recombined to return some of the original diversity if needs be, as has been done with F2s of once common hybrids like Blueberry and C99. Even the most limited efforts of the growing community today might be vital for rebuilding lost lines or even reintroduction one day. With all the attempts at patenting and modifying plants, these efforts may now help to prevent lack of natural diversity and future monopolies too.

 

[troutman]

There's nothing wrong with making hybrids so long as those hybrids aren't contaminating Landrace areas.

 

[ngakpa]

There's nothing wrong with making hybrids

hi

on just this point:

There is a problem with the hybridization situation in the modern Western Cannabis genepool, for "marijuana"

first, very few people, companies, or institutions are keeping "pure lines" of anything, landrace or otherwise

second, most hybridization is haphazard and uncontrolled

in other words, even if we ignore the ecological catastrophe for landraces and wild populations, there is a problem just within the West itself

genetically, the overwhelming trend is that everything is getting increasingly homogenous and narrow

that's a very bad situation, and it's also a problem even for hemp

and what's causing the problem is hybridization

 

[@hempy]

Even worse now we are seeing people breeding the high CBD cannabis lines and Auto lines that were breed using things like rudaralis with any local lines left.

Look at what is happening in Columbia right now and in Thailand were medical is legal or in places that are becoming legal for medical.

Unless we as a community do something to preserve what is left its all over we will be smoking and growing byre lines.

 

[El Timbo]

second, most hybridization is haphazard and uncontrolled

third, most is done with 1 on 1 mating

 

[ngakpa]

third, most is done with 1 on 1 mating

exactly

 

[troutman]

I have pure lines and won't hybridize them before making more pure seeds.

 

[aeroponique2]

Reproducing pure/landraces strains using a low number of individuals is a problem too.... unless different groups will meet again in the future.

 

[Corn Planter]

Even worse now we are seeing people breeding the high CBD cannabis lines and Auto lines that were breed using things like rudaralis with any local lines left.

Look at what is happening in Columbia right now and in Thailand were medical is legal or in places that are becoming legal for medical.

Unless we as a community do something to preserve what is left its all over we will be smoking and growing byre lines.

Yes cbd strains are another threat. Totally over looking thc and any other still unknown compounds. Breeding the high out for “medical” properties.