Extinction by Hybridization: The Cannabis Biodiversity Crisis

[TheDarkStorm]

All the old genetics are scattered around the globe and far apart.
In these still mostly prohibition times (globally seen) there are too many isolated genepools which cannot mix (remember prohibition). If it wasn't for this lack of exchange, all could be good, but I fear it's getting worse. It's like in the animal world... too small and isolated populations wont make it very long...
CC

Interesting view point...an I understand wat you mean....but sometimes I think its a good thing that things are isolated as I see most man an its greed an its uneducatedness on the imortance of these genes that do the damage....but I understand your view point an your intentions....I only wish ther wer more people who understood wat it is thats happening an wer willing to protect an help this situation.

 

[Dankwolf]

This is a major concern of mine. I've been growing for roughly 20 years and have seen a insane loss of diversity . I'm doing the best I can to do my part. It's only been a few years since legalization. But I can already tell the similarities in every single strain That are being offered through many seed companies , dispensaries and underground growers.

I hold strians that i dont even like justs to preserve the choice for others in the future .

Dont have time to read entire thread at moment but i plan to be a major part of it . thank you for starting it . i look forward to reading when i get off work .

 

[Im'One]

I have friends who maintain separate lines and some who run hybrids
I convinced my hybrid loving friend to help with DanceHall seed run with three mLes and three females, mixing them and crossing each male with each of the females. He wouldnt have dome that but i asked him. I know its not a land race but he is n old line and ancestor of many new strains.
Another friend and i are running columbian gold in two strains, one wos seeds and underground seed stock. Im trying to keep a lebanese line going. So...i think the better lines will be kept, but they will likely never be profitable.
My history is in the cattle business and they are always taking f1 calves to market. Very few purebreds are raised....some wealthy folks keep the lines of herfords, angus, charlais and brahma etc separate but those will never make the money and require more maintenance upkeep etc
In a few years we may see breeder associations like those. The columbian breeder collective, afghan growers united etc.
That would be cool.

 

[Gry]

What a neat thread.

 

[@hempy]

hi Hempy,

Thanks, appreciated

According to Genesys, there are only five accessions of "drug-type" Cannabis
https://www.genesys-pgr.org/a/v2ABq7dyJ08

Genesys probably covers about half the world's accessions, so it's an indicator of just how bad the situation is

Most accessions of worthwhile Cannabis germplasm are of hemp

There are very few of "marijuana", and most are either in private hands or inaccessible because they're held by the US gov't or similar

For an indicator of how bad it is, the Millennium Seedbank has just one accession of Cannabis

Hi ngakpa i first realized how bad things were when i first joined the online community 2 decades ago .

I was seeing strains with names like Thai / panama red so on that were clearly nothing like the original lines . Strains that flowered in 10 weeks that looked more like nl5 being called sativas was common still is.

So away from the net every one i knew or would met threw friends that grew i would tell them to preserve and collect as much of the old lines as they could.

I know there are a lot of the old lines still being grown here and i am sure other places also.

The illegality of growing cannabis in most locations in the world has forced commercial growers to seek out faster flowering plants.

The dutch seed market was focused on fast indoor variety's and still is.

Now we face a legal Corporate Cannabis Industry that has pharma and goverment backing wanting to patent and control and own the cannabis that is left.

They are the larger threat to what Land Race/heirloom variety's that are left now and sadly some from the cannabis community are part of this problem.

 

[Corn Planter]

Feminized and auto seeds are a huge problem to future genetics/ breeding. I see less and less regular seeds being offered. I think seed banks do not want home breeders to be able to reproduce and have to come back to them for seeds each grow with their female offering. I always try to buy regular strains only.

 

[Im'One]

Feminized and auto seeds are a huge problem to future genetics/ breeding. I see less and less regular seeds being offered. I think seed banks do not want home breeders to be able to reproduce and have to come back to them for seeds each grow with their female offering. I always try to buy regular strains only.

Same here, i always buy some regular seeds even if i buy some fems.
Are the wild or ruderalis strains as important as the 'drug cultivars'?

 

[White Beard]

Prohibition continues to be the single biggest factor in loss of diversity IMHO: the cost of arrest when dozens or hundreds of plants are in the mix is catastrophic, yet repeated large plantings are THE ONLY WAY To discover what’s in any seed’s inheritance...and of course, no way to combine genes to produce more seed without diluting that inheritance, potentially to invisibility,

I think of each seed as being an entire field in its own right, but that can’t even be approached except in legal circumstances - even strictly-defined legal circumstances. Probably indoor “micro-fields” are in our future, but preservation and extreme female expression and seed yield are treated as “competing interests” because they limit each other, and that’s just a road full of dead ends, so we WILL come up with was if we really mean to do so.

 

[ngakpa]

Prohibition continues to be the single biggest factor in loss of diversity IMHO:

hybridization is far and away the biggest cause of biodiversity loss in Cannabis

above all, introducing non-native seed to Asia

 

[ngakpa]

Same here, i always buy some regular seeds even if i buy some fems.
Are the wild or ruderalis strains as important as the 'drug cultivars'?

wild Cannabis holds the vast majority of the biodiversity in Cannabis

specifically, wild Asian Cannabis
https://landrace.blog/2020/05/13/endangered-varieties-of-subs-indica-a-few-thoughts/

 

[ngakpa]

They are the larger threat to what Land Race/heirloom variety's that are left now and sadly some from the cannabis community are part of this problem.

tbh, the biggest threat to landraces right now is people bringing or shipping hybrid seeds to Asia, Africa etc.

they're who's trashed everything

 

[Im'One]

wild Cannabis holds the vast majority of the biodiversity in Cannabis

specifically, wild Asian Cannabis
https://landrace.blog/2020/05/13/endangered-varieties-of-subs-indica-a-few-thoughts/

Would these be the strains labeled kafiristanica? Kunar river etc.

I only need a couple more strains to have all rsc himalayan strains



?

 

[Sunshineinabag]

How can you grab true landrace ?

 

[ahortator]

tbh, the biggest threat to landraces right now is people bringing or shipping hybrid seeds to Asia, Africa etc.

they're who's trashed everything

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=8515271

 

[ngakpa]

Would these be the strains labeled kafiristanica? Kunar river etc.

I only need a couple more strains to have all rsc himalayan strains



?

hi, all that is answered in that link

wild South Asian = var. himalayensis

wild Central Asian = var. asperrima

 

[Rembetis]

edited in the interest of keeping this thread moving along

 

[Cvh]

How can you grab true landrace ?

The Real Seed Company for example.
https://therealseedcompany.com/

 

[Rembetis]

edited

 

[djonkoman]

Hey Bud, glad you chimed in. I am an old guy too and have the same experiences. A comment was made about the couchlock stuff always being there. I dont remember it that way do you ? or any of you other older guys and gals? I recently heard the newer hybrid crap effects being described as " Dirty" and I think that is a good way to put it. Regardless of where in the world the smoke came from it was always clean and complex. And thats what I was getting at with the Sinai Ngakpa. The stuff I just finished glued me to the couch, had me on the verge of a headache and rung me out. The whole next day was trashed. That didnt happen in the 13th century. Never had experiences like that untill the hybrids came along. Not here trying to trash your efforts at all. Just having a discussion and hoping maybe we can all figure out ways to preserve this stuff. One thing that I have issues with is people doing repros with this stuff outdoors, especially in legal states where all kinds of pollen is flying and now we have Hemp adding to the problem. I really think that if we are to get serious about preserving what is left of the Land Races that it will require some serious evaluation of methods of preservation, probably at least do this indoors to be sure we are not inadvertantly diluting the genepool

I think outdoor seed making is possible, but yeah, don't do it right next to a hemp field.
pollination bags help a lot. if you do manual pollination, you can confirm that no seeds/pollinated flowers are present before pollination. pollinate, place a pollination bag over the bud, and remove it after 2 weeks or so.
if any flower does get pollinated after those 2 weeks, that seed will be clearly in a different development stage, not ripen at the same time.

I only grow outdoor(no possibility for an indoor room), and I work on some of my own crosses, I do pollination outdoor every year that way.
I have crossed the duckfoot-trait in my lines so I can very easily confirm that I don't have foreign pollen contamination in my seeds, since then unwebbed seedlings would appear from the seed. and I can immediatly kill them and the unwebbed ones will still be pure.

without such a visible marker you can't be completely sure, however over the years I made plenty of batches of seed that turned out completely pure, only 1 year I noticed contamination. so I think the risk of pollen outdoor is a bit overstated, although it ofcourse depends on your location a lot. 1 unfortunate placed hemp field upwind, and you might have a lot of pollen flying around.

if you can test your location with ducksfoot a few years you'll know how safe your garden is for pollen contamination.

true, you can never be 100% sure, but if you can only do outdoor pollination you can do stuff like this to minimise the risk of contamination, making seeds outdoor with a slight risk of contamination is better than making no seeds at all imo. the more people make seed, the more gets preserved, eventhough a lot of people might not preserve the 'right' stuff, as long as the number of people making and saving seeds is large enough there must be at least 1 person somewhere preserving the right stuff.

 

[Rembetis]

All good points. My background is agriculture. Been involved for decades and also involved in breeding and conservation of rare and endangered landrace livestock breeds so I guess that tempers my outlook on things. It is difficult to untangle once the contamination happens so I look at it like we have methods to ensure purity when breeding so why not do it that way. But everyone does not have those options.
And I also agree that making some seed is better than nothing and the more people working these lines and keeping them alive will go a long way towards preservation until a more concerted effort can begin