Experienced Sealed Room Growers needed

[TrichCrazy5280]

FWIW, I also read about this afterwards. We were exchanging air during light cycle on the recommendation of our gasfitter after installing 12 burners on NG.

If you record how often the unit is running, you should be able to work out a formula for desired oxygen in cubic feet, and us that to fine tune exhaust. This is mild conjecture, but a conversation with a gasfitter or burner manufacturer should clear up any gobblydegook. A solid internet search and an ounce of mathematics may provide similar result, but I would still confirm with a specialist.

Good idea, i scoured the burner manufacturers website and manual but a phone conversation could clear this up. Go to the source, im on it.

How would a formula help me determine my oxygen levels in cubic feet? Do you just mean how long it takes to exchange the air?

Thanks

 

[Granger2]

I guess air exchange is going to be the solution until or if you determine the cause. I would try to ventilate less often than 1 in 5 minutes to help with CO2. I'd 1st try to ventilate each hour just long enough for 2-4 complete air exchanges. Keep us informed of your findings. Good luck. -granger

 

[Mikell]

Good idea, i scoured the burner manufacturers website and manual but a phone conversation could clear this up. Go to the source, im on it.

How would a formula help me determine my oxygen levels in cubic feet? Do you just mean how long it takes to exchange the air?

Thanks

Sorry, formula was poor word choice.

I mean, the burner is going to consume a measurable quantity of oxygen per hour to raise CO2 under optimum conditions. If you can work that out into cubic feet, and take in to account oxygen levels in air, you should be able to work out a rough approximation for ideal air exchange.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Sorry, formula was poor word choice.

I mean, the burner is going to consume a measurable quantity of oxygen per hour to raise CO2 under optimum conditions. If you can work that out into cubic feet, and take in to account oxygen levels in air, you should be able to work out a rough approximation for ideal air exchange.

Are you aware of a way to actually measure what your oxygen levels are? Sorry, maybe im missing the point here.

I guess air exchange is going to be the solution until or if you determine the cause. I would try to ventilate less often than 1 in 5 minutes to help with CO2. I'd 1st try to ventilate each hour just long enough for 2-4 complete air exchanges. Keep us informed of your findings. Good luck. -granger

.

The only reason i had in on that setting is because i had a timer that is automatic on those times laying around. I like the idea of 4 exhanges an hour. Unfortunately this round is already 2 weeks into flower so i wont see max results till next round. But hoping to at least see some increase in trich production.

 

[Mikell]

Are you aware of a way to actually measure what your oxygen levels are? Sorry, maybe im missing the point here.

Roughly 20% of air is oxygen. Heh, I can always find a convoluted solution to a problem when there may be an easier way. The point would be to minimize air exhange to exactly what the burner requires, reducing gas consumption, producing less heat, requiring less cooling, etc.

Trial and error/guesstimation would be simpler. I sure as heck didn't overthink it this much the first time around.

 

[amannamedtruth]

Are you running clones or seeds? Do you reuse your soil? Sounds like it may be a problem with your soil or irrigation lines carrying a pathogen, and or possibly disease being passed through propagation. Try getting some tests done, specifically for verticillium wilt and nematodes.

 

[theother]

Gonna say it one final time, bottled FTW

Check out bobblehead's thread for a little idea of what a co2 gen looks like in a fire. There are other threads on here where people who have seen it first hand give their account, it is powerful testimony.

FWIW I have a couple co2 gen's that I use as doorstops and whatnot, filling bottles blows, but my garden is so much healthier and safer than it was before.

 

[HatchBrew]

When was the last time the bulbs were replaced?

 

[high life 45]

My bro had similar issues with a burner, got bottled and problems stopped..

I also will never use a burner after what happened to bobble. I was already sketched out by them.

 

[theother]

My bro had similar issues with a burner, got bottled and problems stopped..

I also will never use a burner after what happened to bobble. I was already sketched out by them.

I don't believe his was caused by a burner, you would have to check his thread. I know having aplastic line hooked to a propane tank doesn't help in a fire that's for sure. Even remote mounting doesn't really help a ton if the unthinkable happens.

On that note does anyone know what happens with natural gas lines in a house if there is a fire? For some reason I am assuming they don't melt the same way but I don't really know.

 

[high life 45]

I never said it caused the fire...My point is more along the lines that bobble is not using a co2 burner anymore.

 

[frankenstein2]

{quote}On that note does anyone know what happens with natural gas lines in a house if there is a fire? For some reason I am assuming they don't melt the same way but I don't really know.[/quote]

Few years ago the house two doors down from me burned to the ground. We all had NG. No explosions, nothing. The house burned for a good few hours before they "got it under control". Fire department left, and an hour or two later the house starting burning again, this time right to the ground. Still no fireball or explosion.

I saw where you were going with that line of thought. If one was to use a co2 burner, plumbing it with the same pipe that is used to bring the gas into the house, would be a good move.....I could be totally wrong though, no scientific proof here, just sound reasoning.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Are you running clones or seeds? Do you reuse your soil? Sounds like it may be a problem with your soil or irrigation lines carrying a pathogen, and or possibly disease being passed through propagation. Try getting some tests done, specifically for verticillium wilt and nematodes.

I do not reuse my soil and am using clones that i have years of experience with and know what to expect. These same varieties are successful in other locations currently. I hand water and am very adamant about sump pump, house, and rezs being cleaned out regularly with h202. Could never be a bad idea to send some samples to a lab but dont think that is whats going on because i have seen these mentioned issues in the past.

Gonna say it one final time, bottled FTW

Check out bobblehead's thread for a little idea of what a co2 gen looks like in a fire. There are other threads on here where people who have seen it first hand give their account, it is powerful testimony.

FWIW I have a couple co2 gen's that I use as doorstops and whatnot, filling bottles blows, but my garden is so much healthier and safer than it was before.

Gotcha, ill search and read it. I can go get the tools necessary to use compressed gas easily but just want to exhaust all other ideas before changing something up. I still think i need to be exchanging the air regulatory in the room and i can still get away with using the burner. Maybe im chasing a dragon here, if burners were that bad to use indoors why would they sell them? I have already installed the air exchange in the room and it is feeling better since. I really want to just cut down the plants that are 2 weeks in and move my veg in.

When was the last time the bulbs were replaced?

bulbs were brand new.

I don't believe his was caused by a burner, you would have to check his thread. I know having aplastic line hooked to a propane tank doesn't help in a fire that's for sure. Even remote mounting doesn't really help a ton if the unthinkable happens.

On that note does anyone know what happens with natural gas lines in a house if there is a fire? For some reason I am assuming they don't melt the same way but I don't really know.

The machine i use is a NG(natural gas) version of the sentinel burners. I had my plumber come to install in correctly. He tapped into my gas line for my water heater and is all to code using the correct materials the job called for. Obviously the idea of having a fire in my grow scared me at first but after doing my research i came to the conclusion its no worse then my gas dryer or water heater.


Thanks for keeping this thread going with new ideas. Like i said above, I Really just want to start over with my current veg plants, even though i know i can get something off my current flowers. Maybe it would be smart to just finish these out and see what differences and if any improvements on the quality at least with re installing the intake/exhaust.

 

[theother]

I do not reuse my soil and am using clones that i have years of experience with and know what to expect. These same varieties are successful in other locations currently. I hand water and am very adamant about sump pump, house, and rezs being cleaned out regularly with h202. Could never be a bad idea to send some samples to a lab but dont think that is whats going on because i have seen these mentioned issues in the past.



Gotcha, ill search and read it. I can go get the tools necessary to use compressed gas easily but just want to exhaust all other ideas before changing something up. I still think i need to be exchanging the air regulatory in the room and i can still get away with using the burner. Maybe im chasing a dragon here, if burners were that bad to use indoors why would they sell them? I have already installed the air exchange in the room and it is feeling better since. I really want to just cut down the plants that are 2 weeks in and move my veg in.



bulbs were brand new.



The machine i use is a NG(natural gas) version of the sentinel burners. I had my plumber come to install in correctly. He tapped into my gas line for my water heater and is all to code using the correct materials the job called for. Obviously the idea of having a fire in my grow scared me at first but after doing my research i came to the conclusion its no worse then my gas dryer or water heater.


Thanks for keeping this thread going with new ideas. Like i said above, I Really just want to start over with my current veg plants, even though i know i can get something off my current flowers. Maybe it would be smart to just finish these out and see what differences and if any improvements on the quality at least with re installing the intake/exhaust.

Keep your chin up bro, I have been where you are right now many many times. This hobby is all about soul searching head scratching and waking up like a shot in the middle of the night with an idea. It can be a little soul crushing sometimes. Honestly when shit is going wrong I have a tendency to be like barely functional until I fix it.

I'll try and find the article about ng genrators, something about the by products of combustion and how all of them have some ethylene but ng has more. According to this article the horticultural industry for the most part moved away from them. I'll find it when. The desktop later.

I had problems when I ran propane generators also though. Honestly I can't say with absolute certainty that it was the generator causing the problems but I can tell you that when I switched to bottled I immediately had the best run I had all year.

I can't remember how big you said your space was but the fact that it is well sealed enough to hold co2 overnight is a good sign. Probably a bottle a week something like that. If you are in a med state where it is easy to get bottles exchanged I wouldn't even think twice about it, make the switch, worst case you have a bottle that didn't help and you sell it to a friend.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Keep your chin up bro, I have been where you are right now many many times. This hobby is all about soul searching head scratching and waking up like a shot in the middle of the night with an idea. It can be a little soul crushing sometimes. Honestly when shit is going wrong I have a tendency to be like barely functional until I fix it.

I'll try and find the article about ng genrators, something about the by products of combustion and how all of them have some ethylene but ng has more. According to this article the horticultural industry for the most part moved away from them. I'll find it when. The desktop later.

I had problems when I ran propane generators also though. Honestly I can't say with absolute certainty that it was the generator causing the problems but I can tell you that when I switched to bottled I immediately had the best run I had all year.

I can't remember how big you said your space was but the fact that it is well sealed enough to hold co2 overnight is a good sign. Probably a bottle a week something like that. If you are in a med state where it is easy to get bottles exchanged I wouldn't even think twice about it, make the switch, worst case you have a bottle that didn't help and you sell it to a friend.

Oh i wont give up, dont you worry about that . I guess this is just what happens when you decide to change things up. At least after all is said and done i will have learned some new things, hopefully ill be able to understand them thoroughly so that i am able to relay this information to others. I am with you though, when my garder is not happy, I am not happy. At least i got all the plants at my work looking awesome(where we use liquid co2, LOL)

My 8 light room is basically 2 seperate 11x11 spaces within one room and yes it does hold in the co2 very well. My AC furnace, dehu and burner are all in the middle of these two spaces. Pretty sweet looking setup imo. Ill have to get some photos up soon.

If i was to switch to bottled co2 then i have the decision to try the next run completely sealed or to still exchange air periodically with lights on and off. I am curious how long a bottle would last me if i did that. The original idea behind the burner was to save overhead and convenience. But i do live about 1 mile from a grow store that does exchanges for like 7 bucks a bottle so its not that bad. Shit id buy 5 tanks if i have too!! Just want results!!

Also are these the articles that you are referring too? I think it was Mikell who posted them. Good information that i am digging into.

http://www.greenhousegrower.com/plant-culture/ethylene-in-the-greenhouse/

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/hils/HIL530.pdf

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

This ethylene idea really has me thinking. I wish i came across this information before i installed the burner over a year ago. I guess i did not think to research for greenhouse production when essentially they are very similar designs. I did google searches for "co2 generators in sealed rooms, etc" Nothing ever came up.

Thanks for the links Mikel

 

[theother]

This ethylene idea really has me thinking. I wish i came across this information before i installed the burner over a year ago. I guess i did not think to research for greenhouse production when essentially they are very similar designs. I did google searches for "co2 generators in sealed rooms, etc" Nothing ever came up.

Thanks for the links Mikel

Gotta throw that ethylene word in the search. There are definitely by products of combustion, no way to get around it. I tried everything, I did more air exchanges less air exchanges, only at night exchanges, moved the burner moved the fans, checked the controller, just about everything I could think of. I guess I should haveed another generator and tried that, but went bottled and have never looked back. I go through a bottle a week, there like 20 something a piece. I ended up buying extra bottles so I could go longer but really one bottle should tell you what you need to know. Maybe snag one from work if they have an extra for awhile.

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

Hi

I just went through what you're going through right now. What I have found was I had my PPM setting too high.

Right now I run it at 700ppm and I havent looked back, I noticed my grow is much more robust since I dropped it.

I do exchange air at lights out non stop.

3 1 k's running.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Gotta throw that ethylene word in the search. There are definitely by products of combustion, no way to get around it. I tried everything, I did more air exchanges less air exchanges, only at night exchanges, moved the burner moved the fans, checked the controller, just about everything I could think of. I guess I should haveed another generator and tried that, but went bottled and have never looked back. I go through a bottle a week, there like 20 something a piece. I ended up buying extra bottles so I could go longer but really one bottle should tell you what you need to know. Maybe snag one from work if they have an extra for awhile.

Okay, i did not realize that you have basically already gone through this same thing. So you did already try using the burner while exchanging with fresh air day and night?

I would really hate going through this again even after setting up air exchanges.

I do have a good relationship with a cool gas delivery guy. Im thinking about setting up a dewer tank in my garage and running and extension cord and tubing all the way downstairs. they are like 300-400lb liquid tanks. 50 bucks a month to rent. 100 to exchange. This way im still no lugging tanks around. That would last me awhile depending on how often i do room air exchanges.

Since you are now using bottled co2 are you doing any air exchanges through the day and night period. IF so what are they?

Hi

I just went through what you're going through right now. What I have found was I had my PPM setting too high.

Right now I run it at 700ppm and I havent looked back, I noticed my grow is much more robust since I dropped it.

I do exchange air at lights out non stop.

3 1 k's running.

I know this sounds crazy but an old timer grower i know told me to match the ppm's of your nutrients to the same as your co2.

1500 is def in the safe range for the plants. are you also using a burner?

One thing i have found interesting is that if you are to be running co2 at 1500ppm you room temps would need to be from 85-90 degrees for your plants to absorb it all. I set mine to maintain around 800-1000 when vegging and between 1000-1200ish at 78-80 degrees mid flower. Basically they only will absorb as much as the temps and conditions will let them, the rest is just wasted co2 essentially.

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

I am using a propane burner. 700 ppm. Organics. Canopy temps @ 80 degrees at the hottest zone.

My room is as controlled as they get. I'll smash 1 gpw