Experienced Sealed Room Growers needed

[TrichCrazy5280]

I don't know if this has been mentioned.. however I just noticed you also live at altitude.

I wonder if the less dense air has anything to do with it.

I learned of this problem from getogrow, and I believe be lives in our state as well.

My grow also doesn't have much headroom either, further limiting O2 amounts.

I'm sure there is parameters that when figured out the burner works great. But honestly I think I'll stick with the tanks, as much as I hate getting them filled every 6 days..oh well...

I am using Sentinels HA(high altitude) burner tips as suggested for using at high altitude. However other then that i am totally unaware of that possibly further that that. It could be a factor but i do have more then enough air circulation to keep the gas mixed.

Not sure if it applies to your situation or where you live but like in mentioned in earlier posts they make Dewar tanks that most places will deliver. Just an option. Thanks for the input!

It's been my personal experience that things get "fucky" over 1000 ppm. This is my second cycle on C02, and I'm getting fabulous results with Burner+propane.

There's a lot of conversation in regards to gas not burned during ignition here. There's certainly merit to it, and I feel that it strongly poses an issue. That said, I think the optimum scenario would be a continuous burn. If even achievable. IMHO, I think the market requirements are over-sized. I have a 2 burner and I will be exploring modifying it to 1. Basically plug one off.

Also, I have began to vent at "lights out". I did so because I convinced my self that running organic soils, I require oxygen at all times.

If you are having success with a burner in sealed room with only exhausting at lights out then could you possibly share information that i could compare to?

How would a continuous burn differ from periodic burns?

I know people that burry air stones in their soil beds. Just put the pump outside the sealed bloom room and count on oxygen in the root zone.

Fwiw I don't think the co2 effects root zone health. I do see merit to the air stone in the root zone on it's own account though. If I was gonna do beds or less larger pots I would consider it. The way I see it now though, life is hard enough without a million air tubes.

If I was gonna do it with lots of pots, I think group them all along the walls and run them out laterally into the room. I'm my experience so far things running the long way in your deal make life a living hell.

You can get some big ass commercial air pumps that can do a lot of stones. I think the amount of non enriched air added would be along the lines of well sealed air cooled lights.

Co2 definitely effects the rootzone, that is one of the biggest reasons people aerate their water. Water holds co2 that can easily be displaced with oxygen. Also leads me to think that the large amount of Mushrooms(emits co2) currently growing in my soil has lead to my medium now staying logged. I mentioned in a earlier post that the mushrooms were gone but they are back but they look much more lush then they did before. Overwhelming mushroom smell is gone though.

I am really interested in the effects of water volume on plant health, it's worth starting another thread for honestly. Definitely different soils respond different ways. Also organic vs synthetic is gonna be a huge factor. The balance between biology and synthetics came up in another thread and this point is 100% germane to that issue. I believe a higher percentage of coir (not pith) helps a lot with the balance of runoff vs enough air in the root zone.

Lets get this topic going in another thread, i want more information. Maybe later tonight i will have some time to put it together.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Another update. Today is day 31 of flower and i honestly am seeing a pretty substantial difference in the bud formation. Things are stacking up a bit nicer then before and the only thing i REALLY care about is happening also.....MORE TRICHS!!!!!!! Flowers are now bigger, stickier, stinkier then previous runs in the sealed room. Still not going to be a grand slam but any improvement from before is a win!

The biggest problem as mentioned before is that i got a bacterial/fungal issue that is now really slowed down their drinking to about once a week. I understand that this problem will persist till harvest but i am concerned about my next round. I will be using bottled but am still afraid that i could somehow end up with an anaerobic environment again. SO i still need to figure out some air exchange method that allows me to ensure i have a oxygen rich room but not sucking all my expensive co2 out at the same time.

People have mentioned on this thread that they run bottled co2 with NO intake or exhaust. Then how are you guys clearing out the room before lights out? I thought plants did not like to be saturated throughout the night cycle?

 

[theother]

Another update. Today is day 31 of flower and i honestly am seeing a pretty substantial difference in the bud formation. Things are stacking up a bit nicer then before and the only thing i REALLY care about is happening also.....MORE TRICHS!!!!!!! Flowers are now bigger, stickier, stinkier then previous runs in the sealed room. Still not going to be a grand slam but any improvement from before is a win!

The biggest problem as mentioned before is that i got a bacterial/fungal issue that is now really slowed down their drinking to about once a week. I understand that this problem will persist till harvest but i am concerned about my next round. I will be using bottled but am still afraid that i could somehow end up with an anaerobic environment again. SO i still need to figure out some air exchange method that allows me to ensure i have a oxygen rich room but not sucking all my expensive co2 out at the same time.

People have mentioned on this thread that they run bottled co2 with NO intake or exhaust. Then how are you guys clearing out the room before lights out? I thought plants did not like to be saturated throughout the night cycle?

Have you considered h202 or physan 20 flush and then re inoculate with a tea? Not something I do regularly but it has helped me in the past. I have only done h202 but have a friend that religiously does a physan 20 or h202 flush every 2 weeks and then feeds a tea.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

I have actually done this already. But instead of brewing a tea i inoculated with Great white. Just playing the waiting game, got veggies that are looking stronger then ever and am excited to get them going and see if my problems are gone finally. What a relief it will be to finally get back track, my jars need some serious upgrades!!

 

[shredGnar]

Another update. Today is day 31 of flower and i honestly am seeing a pretty substantial difference in the bud formation. Things are stacking up a bit nicer then before and the only thing i REALLY care about is happening also.....MORE TRICHS!!!!!!! Flowers are now bigger, stickier, stinkier then previous runs in the sealed room. Still not going to be a grand slam but any improvement from before is a win!

The biggest problem as mentioned before is that i got a bacterial/fungal issue that is now really slowed down their drinking to about once a week. I understand that this problem will persist till harvest but i am concerned about my next round. I will be using bottled but am still afraid that i could somehow end up with an anaerobic environment again. SO i still need to figure out some air exchange method that allows me to ensure i have a oxygen rich room but not sucking all my expensive co2 out at the same time.

People have mentioned on this thread that they run bottled co2 with NO intake or exhaust. Then how are you guys clearing out the room before lights out? I thought plants did not like to be saturated throughout the night cycle?

They don't seem to mind it to me..

I use zero intake or exhaust. Bottled c02 with a/c and dehueys.

They dump all their c02 at night and it is higher ppm at night time than with lights on. 1100-1150 lights on 1300-1550 lights off..

I always thought c02 was turned off at night to save money, not because they didn't like to be saturated. Any how they do not seem to be bothered. Definently an improvement versus no co2 and exhaust fans.

 

[theother]

I have actually done this already. But instead of brewing a tea i inoculated with Great white. Just playing the waiting game, got veggies that are looking stronger then ever and am excited to get them going and see if my problems are gone finally. What a relief it will be to finally get back track, my jars need some serious upgrades!!

you'll get there homie! I swear to god this shit is all about just making the best decisions you can based on what you are seeing. LOL its never perfect man. Maybe consider the physan 20 thing. I don't have too much experience with it (I just clean with it), but dude who does it is definitely not dumb. He has a lot of years of grinding it out under his belt. Must be some reason he hits them. I do think he recycles his soil media (which is soilless) so it may be just a stop gap every so often in case things don't swing his way.

I am seeing some funny stuff pop up in my veg, grabbing pics the last few days. If It ends up being something shitty I will start and thread and PM you about it.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Well, a couple factors were at play against me last year. 4 weeks in on the next round without the burner and plants are right back to where they should be. I opted to do an oldschool run of using mad amounts of this chilly colorado air to exchange the rooms air very regularly. I just wanted to start at ground zero and eliminate ANY potential issues. Plus i think the grow space could use a couple months of airing out after a year of being sealed up(was starting to see small amounts of mold on the walls which is gone now). I couldnt be happier with my plants right now.

Ill bang out a good non co2 enriched run and see where my numbers are at then next run add bottled co2 and see what my yield increases.

In the end i think they variables for using a burner in a sealed room with no intake or exhaust is a little to sketchy. Canopy space to room size plays an important piece of this puzzle IMO. I sure you can make this design work but after the last year i just dont feel like messing with anymore. Honestly i dont think ill ever grow indoors without some kind of occasional air exchange. Which in summer months will be less and in winter months be more utilizing free cooling.

I hope this information finds people in need!!

 

[Avinash.miles]

if you have cold air then exchange can be all u need, good post TC5280, def that info will help and the info in this thread has been helpful.

 

[Granger2]

Avinash nailed it, but don't forget the humidity, so plan a way to keep the RH in range. Good luck. -granger

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

if you have cold air then exchange can be all u need, good post TC5280, def that info will help and the info in this thread has been helpful.

Cold air is all that is needed but i know i can get more out of the space using co2. MY new thing is trying to see how much i can get out of my plants using co2 and nectar for the gods nutrients. Im over using salt fertilizers as well. TO many years on focusing only on yield. I want the best of both worlds. So i look forward to seeing how organics in co2 enriched rooms work out in the future.

Avinash nailed it, but don't forget the humidity, so plan a way to keep the RH in range. Good luck. -granger

I have already invested in a huge industrial Quest dehumidification system that is seemingly not turning on right now because of the frequent room air exchanges day and night(1 min on, 4 mins off). But in the summer months when the air is hot ill need to dehu when i have to shorten the rooms air exchanges and will forced to use co2 and my air conditioner to keep the room going well. Thanks!!

 

[queequeg152]

its a shame to exhaust all that delicious hot air this time of year no?

perhaps consider an HRV unit... you could exhaust the air to maintain the desired humidity, exchange energy and remove the moisture with the with incoming cold air, and exhaust the heated fresh air into your living space or common area... or what ever.

sizing would be key here... what with plants producing heinous amounts of moisture.

 

[whitebear]

Good to read thanks!

 

[queequeg152]

something just popped back into my head and i though id put it down here for anyone interested before its lost again.

some time back, shortly after this thread died it was brought to my attention that some of the outrageously expensive fridges being offered now have modules installed to scrub ethylene from the fruit storage area, crisper drawers or what ever you want to call these things.

i spent some time reading about it, and this module leverages a mechanism called photocatalytic oxidation. the catalyst is titanium dioxide fixed onto any number of materials... there are other catalysts, but titanium dioxide appears to be cheap effective and well regarded at this time. Onto this catalyst, UVC light is shone.

PCO has a number of other applications beyond scrubbing ethylene. infact its primaryly sold as a means to treat indoor air by killing this and that, and reacting with airborn organic vapors...of which ethylene is only one.

there are duct mounted PCO units being sold as air purification systems at the moment, and they are readily available. whether or not these systems are capable of removing the quantities of ethylene generated is something ill leave to you folks, as frankly its not an area of interest to me, not being a weed guy, and not being particularly interested in growing anything indoors.

so ill link a few modules ive found in the short time ive searched for them.

http://www.allergy-relief-air-purifier.com/support-files/airgorilla-installation-manual.pdf

this one is TiO2 over some mesh substrate.

http://www.freshaireuv.com/assets/assets-public/literature-residential/TUV-APCO-SPEC.pdf

this one uses a fancy carbon based catalytic monolith... these monoliths can get pretty fancy and expensive.

i read about these units some time back for an unrelated area of interest.

[del]if i had to guess, this monolith is proably a platinum on carbon monolith.
how effective it is, idk... but pt/c catalsts have been around longer than the pope, and can be extremely effective in many areas like hydrogenation etc.
they are however asshole chenchingly expensive. [/del]
no these monoliths are titanium dioxide on activated carbon apparently.

ill leave the rest to those with a more vested interest in this technology.

edit:
god damn it.
how do you strike through text with this software? its not or [del]