exhaust air at night in Sealed Room?

[shredGnar]

A red herring statement. It's funny though, and reminds me of the Germans insatiable appetite for fresh air. You'll be walking around town and notice windows open randomly everywhere.

Those healthy Germans. What they're doing is exchanging the Co2 in order to maintain health and gain energy. They do this all the time. They have a saying and its Germans need fresh air, Americans need air fresheners.

It has not been above freezing since Nov. I have not opened my windows since then but I have yet to suffocate...

And in regards to filtering.. I do not see how exhausting your room, filtered or not, is a better option for odor control than containing the smell in the room where it is constantly scrubbed 24/7..

 

[jd4083]

I'm still really confused as to whether some of the folks who say they have sealed rooms in this thread actually have sealed rooms. It doesn't appear that their definition of "sealed" is meshing with the commonly accepted definition...

I'm not being an asshole, FYI, I'm legitimately confused and would like to make sure my understanding is correct. Lots of crossed signals ITT.

 

[shredGnar]

I'm still really confused as to whether some of the folks who say they have sealed rooms in this thread actually have sealed rooms. It doesn't appear that their definition of "sealed" is meshing with the commonly accepted definition...

I'm not being an asshole, FYI, I'm legitimately confused and would like to make sure my understanding is correct. Lots of crossed signals ITT.

Thank you! Thought I was going crazy!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Ok...so if I unplug both the exhaust and fresh air intake fans (electric dampers at both ends will close automatically), that room is "sealed". No remodeling, no tear down-rebuild, zero...other than pulling two plugs.

Now, as a cultivator living in So Cali (not much weather change here...usually 50-60s at night, with a few extremes) my current setup provides me with near perfect environment...24/7. Low temp: 70-71 degrees (lights out--daytime outside). High temp: 78 degrees (lights on--night/morning outside). Humidity in the 45-55% range--usually at 51%.

My old setup was "sealed". Zero air exchange, no fresh air and high temps bounced between 81-88 degrees and humidity normally ranged 45-60% (highest was 72%). And there was an issue with PM on just one strain (the other two strains had zero issues). My electric bill bounced between $1400-1800 (summer/winter rates)--12 lights in flower. About ready to spend bucks on a dehumidifier and bigger AC to handle the heat from the humidifier...than I said whoaa, let's re-think this.

Last month's Edison bill was $1251 and looking back at my summer bills, the highest one was $1427. Quick math says that is about $200-300/month savings...or $2400-3600/year. No dehumidifier and I still have the same AC. Now, that is me...not saying my solution is everyone's solution (I don't live in the Rockies--rather a few miles from the beach), so what works for me may not work for you, but...honestly, what would you change if your temps and humidity are where you want them to be?

Today I have zero PM issues, the plants healthier than most, yields could always be better--but I am still way above average, and the flower quality is top shelf (not my opinion--but what I am told by the dispensary). Dialed in room with similar production/yield capacity....but lower electric bill, hmmm.

So...if it works, why fix it? Like I said earlier, I can pull two plugs and my grow chamber is 100% sealed, but as a cultivator, I decided that fresh air and having complete air exchange is best for me. Quality/quantity are there...and quality is something I do not sacrifice or discount.

BTW Shred, if I had a ppm meter in my grow chamber, why would I use those glass tubes testers to determine the level of CO2? The answer is no.

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

It has not been above freezing since Nov. I have not opened my windows since then but I have yet to suffocate...

And in regards to filtering.. I do not see how exhausting your room, filtered or not, is a better option for odor control than containing the smell in the room where it is constantly scrubbed 24/7..

You've missed what I've tried to convey. It feels as if you're dismissing my argument on the basis that you're still alive vs health. If you're taking that approach, again Red Herring. And an absurd one at that.

If I put you on a submarine with only the air that's in it, you will die. See how that works?

As a non smoker, weed or cigarettes I can smell it when I'm not filtering. This is what I'm saying.

So for the OP, there is nothing wrong with filtering and exhausting your air at night. It's not going to hurt one bit. If anything its a bonus

 

[moses wellfleet]

I'm still really confused as to whether some of the folks who say they have sealed rooms in this thread actually have sealed rooms. It doesn't appear that their definition of "sealed" is meshing with the commonly accepted definition...

I'm not being an asshole, FYI, I'm legitimately confused and would like to make sure my understanding is correct. Lots of crossed signals ITT.

OK I will try clear this up to the best of my ability.

A grower can set up their room in the following ways:

1. Air exchange using ventilation fans. plants rely on atmospheric co2. traditional and possibly most common design, used by beginners (myself included).

2. Room is set up as above, but co2 is supplied by enrichment, either propane burner or bottled. when heat builds up a controller would be required to activate ventilation system, co2 is emitted to desired levels, once again after ventilation shuts down and the cycle continues. An inefficient system that is wasteful of expensive Co2, and plants are not constantly receiving optimum levels of Co2.

3.So called semi sealed, as has been described already in this thread. A/C provides cooling and humidity control with ventilation only kicking in when lights go off to reduce humidity, fresh air etc.

4. Sealed room with A/C for cooling and dehumidifiers for dark phase. These set ups have NO ducting or extractor fans, except in some cases air cooled hoods to reduce demand on the A/C.

I suspect that the confusion is from growers who have type 1 set ups reading the word 'sealed' and mistakenly thinking that we are referring to type 1 set ups that have been well sealed around ducting and doors etc. They don't realize that 'sealed' refers to a different way to set the room up.

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

I understand you don't want to exhaust, but how do you get around the lack of oxygen at night? do the roots still need o2 at night? Is there enough o2 left in the room from being produced during lights on? 12 hours a day seems like a long time for roots to go without o2if it is needed during that period.

there is some talk about it here, but no real right or wrong on what should be done and why.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=175521&page=2

Someone need to play the role of devils advocate here.

As someone who runs organics, oxygen is particularly critical to me. I need it in order to provide optimum microbe porn. On top of security issues related to venting 50% of the time.

The run I had before this only netted me a little above 1 gram per watt. This is unacceptable. Its pointless to run organics and net 1 gpw for me, I can do that with chems.

I started venting at night for the current cycle I'm on and I fully expect to get 1.5 minimum. The difference in my opinion is the higher concentration of oxygen at night.

Roots use it, and just as crucial for my case, microbes. A living soil just like a human requires oxygen and the more the better. Oxygen often gets ignored within the indoor crowd and rightfully so given this threads tone. If you notice, the argument is more of a thing of whether you're "sealed or not".

Arguing over a word. Not what's best for the plant and more importantly you and security.

I don't smoke weed. I have "grow buddies" that only filter within and I am able to smell it.

 

[jd4083]

OK I will try clear this up to the best of my ability.

A grower can set up their room in the following ways:

1. Air exchange using ventilation fans. plants rely on atmospheric co2. traditional and possibly most common design, used by beginners (myself included).

2. Room is set up as above, but co2 is supplied by enrichment, either propane burner or bottled. when heat builds up a controller would be required to activate ventilation system, co2 is emitted to desired levels, once again after ventilation shuts down and the cycle continues. An inefficient system that is wasteful of expensive Co2, and plants are not constantly receiving optimum levels of Co2.

3.So called semi sealed, as has been described already in this thread. A/C provides cooling and humidity control with ventilation only kicking in when lights go off to reduce humidity, fresh air etc.

4. Sealed room with A/C for cooling and dehumidifiers for dark phase. These set ups have NO ducting or extractor fans, except in some cases air cooled hoods to reduce demand on the A/C.

I suspect that the confusion is from growers who have type 1 set ups reading the word 'sealed' and mistakenly thinking that we are referring to type 1 set ups that have been well sealed around ducting and doors etc. They don't realize that 'sealed' refers to a different way to set the room up.

I guess that would be the source of my confusion -- when I say "sealed room" I am referring to #4. I thought that was the commonly understood definition and it seems almost purposefully obtuse to call anything other than that a "sealed room." I suppose "semi-sealed" makes sense enough.

 

[moses wellfleet]

I guess that would be the source of my confusion -- when I say "sealed room" I am referring to #4. I thought that was the commonly understood definition and it seems almost purposefully obtuse to call anything other than that a "sealed room." I suppose "semi-sealed" makes sense enough.

If peeps are getting what they need from 'semi sealed' rooms good for them, rock on... I know what works for me, and many other (fully) sealed growers!

 

[TheArchitect]

Someone need to play the role of devils advocate here.

As someone who runs organics, oxygen is particularly critical to me. I need it in order to provide optimum microbe porn. On top of security issues related to venting 50% of the time.

The run I had before this only netted me a little above 1 gram per watt. This is unacceptable. Its pointless to run organics and net 1 gpw for me, I can do that with chems.

I started venting at night for the current cycle I'm on and I fully expect to get 1.5 minimum. The difference in my opinion is the higher concentration of oxygen at night.

Roots use it, and just as crucial for my case, microbes. A living soil just like a human requires oxygen and the more the better. Oxygen often gets ignored within the indoor crowd and rightfully so given this threads tone. If you notice, the argument is more of a thing of whether you're "sealed or not".

Arguing over a word. Not what's best for the plant and more importantly you and security.

I don't smoke weed. I have "grow buddies" that only filter within and I am able to smell it.

FYI,

Fresh outside air has 200,000+ ppm of 02, and 350-450ppm co2. Adding 600-800ppm co2 is not even really making a dent in total 02.

And for every co2 molecule used in photosynthesis a molecule of o2 is produced.

If you set up your system right you can have the co2 go off a little while before the lights that way you drain down residual co2 levels before lights out.

And when you say smell it, do you mean you can smell cannabis outside of their room or you can smell stale air? If the latter I'd bet they don't have proper dehumidification leading to mildew problems, if the former, an ozone gen in the warehouse space outside the growrooms works wonders.

 

[shredGnar]

Ok...so if I unplug both the exhaust and fresh air intake fans (electric dampers at both ends will close automatically), that room is "sealed". No remodeling, no tear down-rebuild, zero...other than pulling two plugs.

Now, as a cultivator living in So Cali (not much weather change here...usually 50-60s at night, with a few extremes) my current setup provides me with near perfect environment...24/7. Low temp: 70-71 degrees (lights out--daytime outside). High temp: 78 degrees (lights on--night/morning outside). Humidity in the 45-55% range--usually at 51%.

My old setup was "sealed". Zero air exchange, no fresh air and high temps bounced between 81-88 degrees and humidity normally ranged 45-60% (highest was 72%). And there was an issue with PM on just one strain (the other two strains had zero issues). My electric bill bounced between $1400-1800 (summer/winter rates)--12 lights in flower. About ready to spend bucks on a dehumidifier and bigger AC to handle the heat from the humidifier...than I said whoaa, let's re-think this.

Last month's Edison bill was $1251 and looking back at my summer bills, the highest one was $1427. Quick math says that is about $200-300/month savings...or $2400-3600/year. No dehumidifier and I still have the same AC. Now, that is me...not saying my solution is everyone's solution (I don't live in the Rockies--rather a few miles from the beach), so what works for me may not work for you, but...honestly, what would you change if your temps and humidity are where you want them to be?

Today I have zero PM issues, the plants healthier than most, yields could always be better--but I am still way above average, and the flower quality is top shelf (not my opinion--but what I am told by the dispensary). Dialed in room with similar production/yield capacity....but lower electric bill, hmmm.

So...if it works, why fix it? Like I said earlier, I can pull two plugs and my grow chamber is 100% sealed, but as a cultivator, I decided that fresh air and having complete air exchange is best for me. Quality/quantity are there...and quality is something I do not sacrifice or discount.

BTW Shred, if I had a ppm meter in my grow chamber, why would I use those glass tubes testers to determine the level of CO2? The answer is no.

If you sealed the two holes where the ducting was, and unplugged the fans, then yes

It sounds like you live in a much more temperate climate then I do, making conditioning with outside air much more difficult for me and easier for you..

You are right that the equipment to maintain perfect parameters without air exchange is expensive, then on top of that there is a good deal of extra electricity to run all of it..

But it pays for itself, then dividends, in my experience.

For example, your humidity is approx. 51% because the outside air dictates that.

To maintain the best VPD levels to I run 70% humidity in veg and the first three or so weeks of flower, or until flowers start to fill in, strain dependant.

I think with a proper dehumidifier you would avoid PM. I imagine that is a bigger problem in your location.

You also said that now it is winter, your temps are as low as 73 with the lights on...again dictated by outside conditions. This, in my experience, is less than optimal and I find plants respond better to higher temps, I like 83-85, especially coupled with the higher humidity.. they really love it.

Shit sounds mundane or insignificant, I used to think so, but it really works

Add in a constant 1000 ppm maintained by a regulator and shit truly jumps off.. this concentration of co2 would be impossible to maintain with a constant intake.

I'm my experience the yield I gain from these parameters make up for my extra equipment and Edison bill costs and then some...

Like you said, it does probably cost an extra 3600-4k per year, I run similar size rooms as you. What's that, not even two #... after getting my environment down I see that much extra per 8-10 weeks



I don't think my flowers are any better than yours or that I'm any smarter.. I doubt I would have landed in these conclusions on my own

 

[shredGnar]

You've missed what I've tried to convey. It feels as if you're dismissing my argument on the basis that you're still alive vs health. If you're taking that approach, again Red Herring. And an absurd one at that.

If I put you on a submarine with only the air that's in it, you will die. See how that works?

As a non smoker, weed or cigarettes I can smell it when I'm not filtering. This is what I'm saying.

So for the OP, there is nothing wrong with filtering and exhausting your air at night. It's not going to hurt one bit. If anything its a bonus

I am still missing your point.. last time I checked my grow is not in a submarine..

It is difficult to read your subtleties and sarcasm through text, I can't see you buddy language or facial expressions. And I am dense..

Please just be blunt with me bro

Also, regarding smelling your grow buddies grows and not yours..

Couldn't it be you are used to the terepene profile of your grow from frequenting it, but not your bros?

My neighbors compliment my stank and I don't notice it, and then when I compliment theirs they cannot notice their own either..

 

[EclipseFour20]

Shred--

Let me add some clarity by responding to your last post--the words in quotes are yours.

"If you sealed the two holes where the ducting was, and unplugged the fans, then yes "

PLEASE RESEARCH ELECTRIC DAMPERS...IT DOES THE SAME.

"For example, your humidity is approx. 51% because the outside air dictates that. "

YOU MEAN MY AC DOES NOTHING TO CONTROL THE HUMIDITY? IT SURE PULLS OUT A GOODLY AMOUNT OF WATER. BTW, WE HAVE A THING CALLED SANTA ANA WINDS HERE IN SO CALI, HUMIDITY DROPS TO NEAR ZERO OUTSIDE, BUT NOT IN MY GROW CHAMBER.

"You also said that now it is winter, your temps are as low as 73 with the lights on...again dictated by outside conditions. "

NO THE 73 TEMP IS WHEN THE LIGHTS ARE OFF (DURING DAYTIME). REREAD MY POST.

"Like you said, it does probably cost an extra 3600-4k per year, I run similar size rooms as you. What's that, not even two #... after getting my environment down I see that much extra per 8-10 weeks "

THAT ASSUMES MY YIELDS ARE SUB-PAR (SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF). LET'S ASSUME YOU CAN GROW AS GOOD AS I CAN (I AM NO SPRING CHICKEN)...THEN I SAVE THAT AMOUNT--OR YOU SPEND THAT AMOUNT.

"I don't think my flowers are any better than yours it that I'm any smarter.. I doubt I would have landed in these conclusions on my own"

THAT ASSUMES THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY OF GROWING, YOURS. I SAY THERE ARE MANY PATHS TO THE SAME DESTINATION...AND THERE IS YOUR WAY, MY WAY AND SOMETIMES WE DISAGREE.

Sorry for the bold, but you seem have convoluted my words and I wanted you to hear me clearly.

So...is this another area in ICMag (sealed room discussions), if you are not 100% "sealed"....then "need not apply"? Exclusive to 100 percenters only?

Like I said, I adopt the best practices from all growing disciplines, and ignore/disregard what does not work or make sense. Not out to convert anyone.

 

[shredGnar]

"During winter (like now) the AC seldom cycles on at all when the lights are on, in fact the air can dip to 73-75 degree range...without the AC on. "

Your own words...

Really not sure why you are getting so frustrated.. I'm trying to have a discussion

You are reading way to far into my posts.. . Who said anything about subpar yields? You yourself said there was room for improvement..

I also am not trying to convert anyone. If what you are doing works for you, good for you. Truly don't give a Shit about your grow.

I am trying to sort facts from fiction.

Fact... constant intake on a grow room is a ventilated room. Unable to maintain your set parameters constantly, such a ppm, humidity. Because you have a co2 tank on a timer doesn't mean you have a sealed room.


My argument for exhausting at night is out there..

What I am trying to get through to you is that your room is not sealed.. You seem to take offence to that

 

[shredGnar]

Regarding humidity..If you had actually read my response you would see I believe your humidity is too low.. last time I checked your a/c which, in your words, seldom turns on, dehumidifies.. does not add humidity

 

[jd4083]

Eclipse, I'm not speaking for anybody but I think the only argument here is a semantic one because you are using the term incorrectly. If whatever you do is working that's great, but so far as I can tell it is not a "sealed room" by the (long accepted and pretty clearly defined) definition. Nobody is being rude so don't take it personally. Maybe just think of another, more appropriate name to delineate the two concepts so as not to confuse folks who are not familiar with the techniques in question.

 

[TheArchitect]

Best practices doesn't necessarily mean plant health is the priority when making a decision.

It may be that its just not practical, in extremely large operations with such low margins of profitability (lettuce, tomatoes, etc), to run the industrial sized equipment. They also have more options in terms of pesticide use even up to harvest so its less of a benefit in that regard.

We are working in hundreds, maybe thousands of sqft not tens of or hundreds of thousands, and our crop is much more valuable and harder to treat for pest/pathogens.

Eventually greenhouses will rule, and completely sealed off environments might go the way off the dodo.

I believe they are here to stay though, particularly because of phenotypical expression, there is no other way to get 100% consistency from batch to batch.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Shred,
LOL...its all good, you are right I did say 73-75 dip without the AC on. My bad.

I think I admitted that my room is "sealed" but with the air exchange and fresh air, I am not "100% sealed". Why, due to cultivation practices...not because of the construction of the room (we agree, unplug two fans and that room is 100% sealed, tighter than a frogs ass).

Not trying to be in a crowd that I don't belong...just adding value from my experiences as well. Boy, did the OP get an ear full....so lesson learned: If he does "exhaust", then he needs to resign from the "100% sealed room fraternity".

LOL...that was a joke.

 

[Granger2]

BTW, I say Tuh Mater. -granger

 

[shredGnar]

Shred,
LOL...its all good, you are right I did say 73-75 dip without the AC on. My bad.

I think I admitted that my room is "sealed" but with the air exchange and fresh air, I am not "100% sealed". Why, due to cultivation practices...not because of the construction of the room (we agree, unplug two fans and that room is 100% sealed, tighter than a frogs ass).

Not trying to be in a crowd that I don't belong...just adding value from my experiences as well. Boy, did the OP get an ear full....so lesson learned: If he does "exhaust", then he needs to resign from the "100% sealed room fraternity".

LOL...that was a joke.

Lol..I was thinking the same thing about the op.. he's got decisions make

All good.. I think we are just stuck on our own terminology

I hope you keep on killing it, bro