G
Guest
ah, i got you phil. ive heard something about an imposter original diesel going around. sucks when fake cuts make the rounds, but the real original diesel is still widely circulated. thanks for the heads up though. 
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ELITE CLONES TO S1 FOR THE MASSES
- Thread starter jamesbrow
- Start date
Phil N. Heiman
Member
No doubt dude.ahhh, long live the underdog!!! down with fake cuts and hacks!!!
G
Guest
Phil N. Heiman said:
im with ya bro. somebody needs to flood the scene with the legit cut so it'll be easily recognized against the fake. so who's it going to be?
im surprised more people arent all over it, its the closest to chemdawg that's actually available and people go apeshit over the chems these days.My opinion of s1's and back crossing have changed drastically due to actually having hands on testing over the last 4yrs.
The s1's i have tried have been extremely good
and varitable copies of the clone.
Especially if you are fortunate
enough to get an s1 male.
Back crossing has got me close copies that never seem to quite add up to
the original, ..lovely plants though.
Trying to self an s1 seems to get into problems,
I will not go there.
The s1's i have tried have been extremely good
and varitable copies of the clone.
Especially if you are fortunate
enough to get an s1 male.
Back crossing has got me close copies that never seem to quite add up to
the original, ..lovely plants though.
Trying to self an s1 seems to get into problems,
I will not go there.
I really welcome discussionof how one thinks that back crossing will give a closer version to the clone than a well selfed line. For instance the chemodawg.The reports are glowing for some versions and less than stellar for others.People seem to like the #4 or whatever.If there can be that much diversity in potency,i do not see how one can nail it down even back crossing to the various chemdawgs, which seem to be of variable potency.
If ones goals are to produce a stable line of beans that looks smell and act fairly like the original i guess its ok.
I just find that any drop in potency means alot to me.
Potency is the first thing that goes in a back cross because usually the plant you want to concentrate on is very potent to begin with.
I have been trying for years to back cross a particular clone only for decades strain[that i will not mention yet] and while i have made some wonderful plants, none of them have come close to the potency of this one or even duplictae the looks of it.
I finally managed to self it and it has duplicated the clone.
I would rather have used backcrossing 2 or 3 times rather than selfing but found that the selfing tool was best.
Selfing is a monumental PIA but i have turned from skeptic to
"if you can't get the clone , get an s1".
Your results may vary.
Then there is the particular method of selfing
sts, GA3,Coloidal silver, photoperiod stressing.
The latter i have never tried.
If ones goals are to produce a stable line of beans that looks smell and act fairly like the original i guess its ok.
I just find that any drop in potency means alot to me.
Potency is the first thing that goes in a back cross because usually the plant you want to concentrate on is very potent to begin with.
I have been trying for years to back cross a particular clone only for decades strain[that i will not mention yet] and while i have made some wonderful plants, none of them have come close to the potency of this one or even duplictae the looks of it.
I finally managed to self it and it has duplicated the clone.
I would rather have used backcrossing 2 or 3 times rather than selfing but found that the selfing tool was best.
Selfing is a monumental PIA but i have turned from skeptic to
"if you can't get the clone , get an s1".
Your results may vary.
Then there is the particular method of selfing
sts, GA3,Coloidal silver, photoperiod stressing.
The latter i have never tried.
Last edited:
Rgd said:
You don't think most of the breeders out there have played with STS?
S1's are exactly the same as F2's for trait inheritance purposes.
Period. Study up on your Mendellian Inheritance if you doubt me.
Selfed plants are no more true representations of the parent than any f2s.
Remember ORGNKID's Blackberry S1s?
The only S1s that will breed anywhere near true would have to come from an inbred line of homozygous plants.
Hybrids are heterozygous, BTW...
Here is a page where you can study up on your Mendel...
http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htm
Thanks for the Link H3ad, gonna get a studyin'
No worries... Never been a pompous ass, and won't start now...
Does Knowing how things work, and sharing the knowledge make me pompous?
No, of course not.
Now show me one piece of 'mis-information' I've spread. Of course you'll have to have sources to provide proof.
Reprecussons... lmao... I'm not very afraid of any reprecussions from being right and showing people the truth. AND... The fact that you found it necessary to sign up a new nic, just to talk shit to me, means that the truth must upset you. Why?
Does Knowing how things work, and sharing the knowledge make me pompous?
No, of course not.
Now show me one piece of 'mis-information' I've spread. Of course you'll have to have sources to provide proof.
Reprecussons... lmao... I'm not very afraid of any reprecussions from being right and showing people the truth. AND... The fact that you found it necessary to sign up a new nic, just to talk shit to me, means that the truth must upset you. Why?
G
Guest
Hmmmmmm, saying that "s1's are exactly the same as f2's as far as inheritance purposes" and saying that "selfed plants are no more true representations of the parents than any f2" sounds suspiciously like it's saying the same thing worded differently. I don't know if I'd make my first post one where you call people asses and go on to say the same thing in a different way. Kinda makes you sound like a pompous ass just looking to act superior. Just my opinion, but hey, welcome to the forum.
Hello,
I am talking about my real life experiences
on the more than several years i have been working
on back crossing and selfing.
I am not a scientist, and I will not try to be.
My work is hands on,actually-doing-it, work.
Its a pain in the ass, i am reporting my findings.
I also have no alterior motives,and just want the correct results.
I would have been very happy to stay with back crossing
because it is so much easier.
But it has always given me less than stellar results, especially when the clone to be preserved has particular special characteristics like potency.
Backcrossing has not ever given me what i want while selfing has been varitable copies of the actual plant.
I am talking about my real life experiences
on the more than several years i have been working
on back crossing and selfing.
I am not a scientist, and I will not try to be.
My work is hands on,actually-doing-it, work.
Its a pain in the ass, i am reporting my findings.
I also have no alterior motives,and just want the correct results.
I would have been very happy to stay with back crossing
because it is so much easier.
But it has always given me less than stellar results, especially when the clone to be preserved has particular special characteristics like potency.
Backcrossing has not ever given me what i want while selfing has been varitable copies of the actual plant.
I'd have to see some proof of that Rgd... Of course we experience has taught me that repeated backcrossing will not stablise a line... And experience has taught me that S1s are f2s. period. That's what S1s really are is F2s. If you can get stable S1 seeds... grow them up and prove something to us, instead of saying that your experience nullifies Mendels, and expecting people that know better to buy off on it. I'd love to see some documentation of your findings. 'Findings' without documentation are no better than opinions.
I know from experience, both growing out and watching others grow out, that S1s do not produce uniform results unless the plant being selfed was homozygous to begin with. Sure a plant very similar to the mother might pop up, but it is the exception, not the rule.
The only way to properly fix traits into a line in such a way that the majority of seeds display said traits is through careful selection and incrossing over several generations, NOT backcrossing and NOT selfing.
The most uniform seedruns are F1 hybrids.
I know from experience, both growing out and watching others grow out, that S1s do not produce uniform results unless the plant being selfed was homozygous to begin with. Sure a plant very similar to the mother might pop up, but it is the exception, not the rule.
The only way to properly fix traits into a line in such a way that the majority of seeds display said traits is through careful selection and incrossing over several generations, NOT backcrossing and NOT selfing.
The most uniform seedruns are F1 hybrids.
G
Guest
dont matter if you self or BX, you will never get a dup of the original cut. each MJ plant is a individual. you can find plants close, or even better, but never a dup. S1s are not clones in a bean.
ive done one self with a cut, and the resultin 6 females im flowerin are not even close to the cut.
ive done 1 BX, growin those females now as well, and im havein better luck gettin the traits of the cut im interested in then line breedin.
everyones experience may be different, what works for one may not work for another. as said above, most likely depends on what ya start with, and what your lookin for.
taste/aromas are very hard to get into a entire population. at least ime. there are no shortcuts, theres selfin and backcrossin to help ya get there, but its still a bunch of work no matter what style ya use.
CBF
ive done one self with a cut, and the resultin 6 females im flowerin are not even close to the cut.
ive done 1 BX, growin those females now as well, and im havein better luck gettin the traits of the cut im interested in then line breedin.
everyones experience may be different, what works for one may not work for another. as said above, most likely depends on what ya start with, and what your lookin for.
taste/aromas are very hard to get into a entire population. at least ime. there are no shortcuts, theres selfin and backcrossin to help ya get there, but its still a bunch of work no matter what style ya use.
CBF
G
Guest
in my time around the forums ive seen many posts by growers, so many are gonna bring elites to the masses.....bah havent seen it happen, lotta talk but no results.
lots of peeps think seedmakin is a breeze, yea any bone head can make seed, but makin somethin outta the seed is another ball game which many dont understand.
CBF
lots of peeps think seedmakin is a breeze, yea any bone head can make seed, but makin somethin outta the seed is another ball game which many dont understand.
CBF
Cedarberry said:
Absolutely!
Again, my take is ......
if you can't get the cut.
Use an s1.
About the elite clones to the masses comment.
There are s1 beans of different "elite" clones .
Though maybe not very numerous and only small runs.
I have tried at least 5 different strains and was very
surprised.
Some of the people who have reversed tham have prefered
the odd s1 to the clone.
if you can't get the cut.
Use an s1.
About the elite clones to the masses comment.
There are s1 beans of different "elite" clones .
Though maybe not very numerous and only small runs.
I have tried at least 5 different strains and was very
surprised.
Some of the people who have reversed tham have prefered
the odd s1 to the clone.
G
Guest
Grat3fulh3ad said:
Absolutely!
Hola grat3ful, youve already said it, numerous times in this thread, dont seem to be soakin in though
CBF
