Effective Microorganisms, aka EM

[Trichgnomes]

That liter can easily last a year, because if I start with EM:molasses:water at 1.5:1:20, I can actually use the second fermentation to make another, and another. Just like sourdough starters, it eventually has to be refreshed or it becomes local wild stuff. This product is the cheapest I have ever used.

mad lib- I was curious as to if this is the ratio you always use. I am about to brew up a 5 gallon batch, (only the second I have brewed), and last time used a ratio of 1:1:20. Should I up it to the 1.5? I followed the instructions, but didn't really do much post-research to find out what ratios others are using.

Also, do you use the the AEM in place of the EM for the second batch? Does the water/molasses ratio stay constant?

 

[mad librettist]

I use 1.5:20 out of blind faith in the words of vinny pinto, followed by advice to do the same from here and there. risk:reward benefit of doing 1.5 seemed very good. So I pass it on.

The theory is that the "consortium" will maintain integrity if you brew it again, and that you are less likely to get a bad brew.

Then, I do use AEM for another batch. And Vinny says it's ok.

That said, I do not ingest the 2nd generation, that is for animals and garden. That's me being cautious based on a hunch.

For bokashi, cleaning, deodorizing, etc... I don't think it matters.


Hey microbeman: the grape concentrate EM with azomite and rice bran (I toasted it) tastes great! I fermented for about 3 months. Very dry, almost vinous. "clean mouth" finish.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Word. This is going to be strictly as a soil inoculant, to be more specific.

 

[mad librettist]

In that case, you can brew at least many times as much with the same amount of motherculture using the 1.5 ratio. Make sure to give your pnsb's plenty of light.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Make sure to give your pnsb's plenty of light.

I'm so glad you said that! The last batch I did in a food grade plastic true brew bucket, with an airlock on the top. I realized this would limit pnsb growth afterward, and bought a 3 gallon glass brewer, with a stopper/airlock. If you hadn't reminded me I would have forgot all about the glass one!
Cheers

 

[mad librettist]

again that's just what I'm told, I have no idea if it's true. Because when I put R. Palustris (the one supposedly in my EM) into the microbewiki, I get this:

It is one of the most metabolically versatile bacteria known with the ability to convert carbon dioxide gas into cell mass and nitrogen gas into ammonia and hydrogen gas.

So I would use both containers and maybe think of foods higher in N? I dunno. Maybe there is no issue here. looks to me like: you can't kill these little buggers, maybe just slow them down.

these puppies eat four ways:

a little feelgood info. I say make a bunch and use it like it's free:

Bioenergy and Waste Recycling

Rhodopseudomonas palustris, along with Rhodospirillum rubrum and Rhodospirillum photometricum, grow phototrophically on several two- and three-carbon halocarboxylic acids in the presence of CO2 through reductive dehalogenation and assimilation of the resulting acid. This ability to utilize halocarboxylic acids suggests that they might be able to assist in the removal of these environmental pollutants from illuminated anaerobic habitats like lakes, waste lagoons, sediments of ditches and ponds, mud, and moist soil (McGrath and Harfoot 1997). This bacterium also has the ability to convert N2 into NH4 and H2, which can be used as a biofuel.

EDIT: hot dang! it is a lignin degrader! Which implies I'm also wrong about not bothering to include PNSB's in bokashi. I wonder if it is good at eating coco?

R. palustris has the potential to be very useful because it can degrade and recycle several different aromatic compounds that make up lignin, the "main constituent of wood and the second most abundant polymer on earth" (DOE). Thus, this bacteria and those like it may be useful in removing these types of waste from the environment. In addition, R. palustris converts N2 into NH4 and H2, which can be used as a biofuel.

another edit: based on the above, does anyone know what would feed it in an EM brew? blackstrap? bran?

 

[MrFista]

Brilliant find: can you give details of the source so I can read it please. The way EM munches brocolli stalks I was sure there was something busting up lignin.

 

[mad librettist]

Click on the word microbewiki in my last post.

I was emailing ganja din, and he took issue with the source. So trust but verify. I'm too lazy for that. Looks convincing to me though. And yes, since having em and bokashi around my worm bins I've also noticed fibrous things degrading quick.

Are avocado pits ligninous?

 

[MrFista]

Avocado pits - I dunno - are they degrading? All mine are sprouting.

 

[VerdantGreen]

avacado pits, mango stones and sweetcorn husks are the last things i can see in my compost - oh, and egg shells

 

[mad librettist]

I picked up an avocado pit a couple weeks ago and squeezed. It crumbled.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Just curious how important y'all EM users think the pH is. I know they say below 4 is good some say 3.5, etc. I was curious as to if the consensus was a general number, as to indicate microbial action, or if something specific is more desirable. I've read some people say that the pH thing is sort of a myth, and isn't the biggest factor.
The reason I'm asking is because mine was at 3.5 after 8 days, the smell was slightly sweet and fermented. It seemed good so I applied to some soil that is about to host some plants.

 

[Microbeman]

3.5 is the highest you would wish to use. I ingest only under 3.4 and usually 3.3 to 3.2

 

[mad librettist]

Well I haven't read anything conclusive on brewing pH, but it seems like a good indicator that lactobacilli have successfully fermented the sugars and rendered the medium inhospitable to everything else.

Combined with smell, and the confirmation of drinking it and not getting sick, I am pretty confident.

 

[secondtry]

Hey all,

MM is correct, pH is the main way to tell when AEM is OK, it can still ferment longer but shouldn't be used before pH is below 3.5 for agricultural or horticultural use; and lower as he noted for ingestion.

 

[Trichgnomes]

So does everyone think I'm cool that I applied it to about 30 gallons of soil that cuttings will be transplanted into in the next couple weeks?

Also, since the pH was only at 3.5, does anyone think it will promote a problem that I used this to start an AEM2?

 

[secondtry]

Hey,

pH of 3.4 or less is ideal, pH of 3.5 is OK too but not over 3.5 is best. Your good to go with your application, my AEM reaches pH 3.5 or lower in 1-3 days but I continue fermenting until the rate of Co2 bubbles slows which means the food source for yeast and LAB (molasses) is running low. (but I use a unique method others don't that is why I get so fast pH drop and such high rate of bacterial growth)

I don't agree with using AEM to make more AEM, the microbial balances and synergies will be off. There is a balance of microbes in EM (and AEM) and it is a safe bet to assume by extending the AEM into more AEM you will loose a large population of PnSB and they are the heart of EM and AEM.

Your better off making more AEM from EM. HTH

 

[mad librettist]

Why is it a safe bet? I still don't get this one. You can grow it out once with molasses, why not twice? What is so different?

 

[xmobotx]

3.5 is the highest you would wish to use. I ingest only under 3.4 and usually 3.3 to 3.2

would it be correct to assume that this will help to correct body chemistry?

It would seem that ingesting acidic substance would cause the body to respond by alkalizing

 

[secondtry]

Why is it a safe bet? I still don't get this one. You can grow it out once with molasses, why not twice? What is so different?

Because you are stating with a different source. It would be like making ACT from ACT. That's not suggested either. For EM it has to do with the flux of microbial communities in the ferment; it changes with time and food sources just like ACT does. PnSB are facultative anaerobes, as such the infusion of air when extending AEM into more AEM hinders PnSB. That is just one example why it's best to start with known source (e.g., EM) so we be can fairly sure the end product is what we want. The same goes for compost to make ACT, it needs to be tested before it's used to make ACT to insure it has proper types (and to less degree numbers) of microbes.

Does that make more sense?