Economy seeds. the good, the bad and the ugly

[Chrondiddle O]

delicatessen seeds are great.
a friend brought back the edy and queen mother from spain,both were excellent and something quite different.

 

[yesum]

I had good luck with Peak Seeds. Their Northern Lights is a great high for me. I reordered some more NL and the Northern Berry. I use cash and make sure you can not see thru the envelope, using heavy duty opaque paper to hide the cash.

I have a pack of KCBrains Afghani Special to run, Vostok here said it was nice stuff. Ran Mandala Rishi Kush, nice balanced high.

 

[Jhhnn]

nice the Jalisco and the Jaze caught my eye too... hope you let us know how they go

I considered the Jalisco ibl but got the impression that it's probably big & wild, not really suitable for my situation.

I gotta quit buying seeds. I'm starting to think that it's a disease, like hoarding junk.

 

[vostok]

Hash makers love that KC Brains Afgani Special, that clogs up my pipes and bongs just after 2 hits, love it but I gotta learn to keep my gear clean ...lol

 

[M.R.GT]

Welcome JS seems the eskobar line is pretty popular so I will definitely have to score a few packs to judge. They have some cool looking gear and decent prices.

John I cant agree with you more about Mandala. I ran the kalichakra and the hashberry about 05 and 06. Both outstanding work. I was looking at mandala but most of there seed stock is sold out. there shop is closed until next year. I had heard Steve was having some health problems but cant say for sure. I also use GSA as my go to guys. Ive been thinking of giving another shop a try.

CO if you have any pics of your b52 throw them up I would love to see. I have heard nothing but great things about KCs Bahia Blackhead, should have picked those up over the northernlights special. I've never heard of delicatessen I guess I will have to give Google a spin.

WD how goes it? If the Jock is that good I may have to score a pack. I always wanted to score some High end jack but was always to cheap. I make my own seeds as well but this year I decided for the first time in years that I would buy some commercial stock just to se whats out there.

R4 your right there are lots of scumbags out there making it a hassle for others. Things like that will never change. There will always be some out there looking for the next scam.

Peace

GT

 

[Useful Idiot]

Nice thread M.R......To bad ya can't get yer paws on some OLD Nirvana White Rhino. That stuff was killer. I have a pack from way back when in the vault. I ran a pack and was a very happy camper. Just wanted to let ya know not to buy their latest White Rhino.......NOTHING like the old stuff.

 

[vostok]

Nice thread M.R......To bad ya can't get yer paws on some OLD Nirvana White Rhino. That stuff was killer. I have a pack from way back when in the vault. I ran a pack and was a very happy camper. Just wanted to let ya know not to buy their latest White Rhino.......NOTHING like the old stuff.

Yo ....breed it out and donate some seeds to the cause, as I've heard the same

 

[Useful Idiot]

Yo ....breed it out and donate some seeds to the cause, as I've heard the same

That is my plan vostok...I have a ton goin on atm. But I plan on an open pollination with the pack to share. I also have an old pack of there B-52 that I am gonna do the same thing with to share.

 

[kountdown]

My vote is for Peak Seeds BC. I grew his Northern Skunk (12 for 40) and it was great. He doesn't have the new, exciting names like I can find at the attitude, but gear that is solid and uniform and very good. If you're looking for skunk, bb, or nl beans, check him out.

 

[Dirt Life]

welcome ManyClouds feel free to post any pics you may have. I will check out peak seeds and see what they have to offer. Definitely couldn't do a thread like this with out Nirvana they have been a staple for the cheap guy like me for years.

I've seen some fantastic plants come from Peak lines, including posts and pictures here, and I've been a Nirvana fan for over a decade; they're the original f2 knockoff bank.
Fun idea, will be nice to see a thread of only "cheaper" plants.

Here's two from Nirvana, from L-R, first two are NL/Shiva (black pepper skunk), second two are Haze 19/Skunk1, and there's a ton of older pics of each in my albums.



Both packs cost $17.50 each.

 

[OneStonedPony]

********* has Cannacopia's Chunky Cheese 10 seeds for $ 35, GLG's got ISP's Chem 91 for $ 50 for 6 seeds, I paid $ 100 for 10 on Cannazon, but my pack had 11 seeds. GH's Lemon Skunk is good, got the last ones from Single Seed Center for like $ 6.50 a seed. I don't mind $ 60 for decent stuff and $ 100 for higher end strains. Don't know how folks buy those $ 150 and $ 200 packs. $ 15 and $ 20 a seed seems crazy to me.

 

[M.R.GT]

Welcome everyone.

Nice to see that I am not the only one who still values a buck.

Brother Yesum, drop those Afgani special I would like to see how they turn out. I haven't ran an straight Afgani in several years. She is a true classic but I wonder what KC added to make it special. I was thinking about scoring some of the BB from peak to compare against an old bluberry Sat x genius I ran from Fet from spice brothers. If it is anything close to fet/DJ shorts she would be a stinker. Welder Dan said the BB was good as well as the northern berry so they will definitely go onto the list. Still run into the same thing Cash or Money orders only no CC payments so I will have to mull it over. I will risk $80 bucks on 2 packs If you guys have good luck with this company.

Hey Vostock I eyeballed the KC's Afgani but opted out for the northern lights special to see how it compares to some of my old NL. Still wondering what KC added to make it special. Anyone know for sure?


Welcome UI. thanks for the props brother. The White rhino sounds petty sick. I have some crosses made with it from about 05/06 but have never gotten around to them. If you do a seed run on these and the B52 put me on the list.

Whats up KD? When you say 12/40 is that the germination rate, female to male ratio or male to female ratio.? I hope that wasn't the germ rate less than 50% would piss me off. I don't stress male to female ratios as I truly believe that's in the hands of the pot gods but to have less than 50% or for me less than 80% germ is unacceptable.

MC sweet pics. I will be checking out your albums for sure. Your pics show why nirvana has been around so long and people still love them. If you can find a few plants like those per pack they are worth the $25 a pack they are now. @ $17.50 ya cant beat that.

Hey OSP thanks for the feed back. Im with you about $15 to $20 a seed is crazy. I cant say anything I have done it myself. I ponied up for the real deal serious seeds AK for like $125 at the time and it turned out no better than nirvanas AK48. We will not even go into some the others I have thrown money away on when I could have gotten the same thing out of a $20 pack. Sometime it feels as if your being robbed.

One of you smart guys clue me in on what characteristics make a strain worth $100 or more? Sure some breeders have grown them out long enough to stabilize it for certain characteristics but how do you differentiate. Been my experience that its just a crap shoot.
What as a community are we looking for?

Personally it starts right up front,
I want seeds that are viable 100% germination in a perfect world but 80 %is a min. Even at 80% on a $100 strain those 2 that don't germ is $20 bucks down the drain.

Vigor do they grow well with no health problems.

Stability, do they grow uniform with a minimum of phenotypes. In a premium strain I expect that 85% will be exactly what the breeder says. Cheap line I don't expect so much maybe 50% but you take what you can get.

Stress tolerant will they hermi at the first sign of stress?? Heat, cold, light, nutrients and a host of others.

Breeder specs. Do they grow and mature in the nature described by the breeder. flower time, stretch, flavors, smell, potency, potential yield... and so on. Nothing piss me off more when they tell you oh yea it only doubles in stretch and as soon as you kick one into flower it goes X10 and you reach over grow.

These are some of the things that are important to me. if I pony up a $100 for 10 seeds they better be exactly what was hyped or at least damn near it. $20 strains I am a little more forgiving. On a $100 pack I expect 60% of the plants to be keepers for $20 Im happy with a couple.


Experience has taught me that most premium lines the extra $ was not spent in development but went into someone's pocket.

I believe we as consumers drive the price of seed stock more than development. If we continue to pay High dollar for seed stock passing up economy lines strictly based on price then who are we screwing? breeders will continue to raise prices as long as we buy them. The old adage of "you get what you pay for" is not always true with this industry.

If Im way off base here someone let me know.

Maybe a side by side of like strains is in order. Premium vs Mid line vs Economy


That will be my next project after I do some of these economy lines.

Any suggestions on a side x side x side for the winter grow?

peace
GT

 

[Jhhnn]

^^^

A lot of what determines seed price is fashion & marketing, like I phones.

It's also important to recognize that some lines, particularly poly hybrids, are fundamentally unstable. I've never grown it, but original haze is apparently untameable in that respect. That's why clone only varieties exist at all & why they may not be the right material from which to develop a relatively true breeding seed line. The only way to accomplish that from such material is with repeated back crossing.

Hybrid corn is the same way. It gives strong yields & uniformity in the commercial product but breeding from it won't yield the same results at all so farmers just buy more seed every year.

 

[Lester Beans]

Its hype. The latest greatest. Folks gotta have it. If its a fresh name that's blowing up, and there are some unstable pollen chucked in a closet seeds available for 20$ each, they will sell out immediately.

If people are in a competivie market, they will do what they can to get the edge up. First guy around here to have the cookies was a popular dude. Until everyone tried it, meh.

And I'm not saying its a bad thing. Its in fact fucking awesome! To be able to have a shot at running some elites that would never make it to my area, well that's priceless and that's why people spend 20$ a seed.

On the flip side of the coin people ask why I would spend 40$ on 'race African genetics that will be unruly, when I could get some worked hybrid. Well to each their own! Just happy all of that stuff is available, finally!

On topic, Nirvana PPP is fucking awesome. Many phenos, all excellent in their own way. The rock hard frosty mango hashy tasting one is killer. So far for the price I havnt topped PPP. Makes you feel drunk, midday. Pics in my album.

Best, Les

 

[vostok]

Welcome everyone.

Nice to see that I am not the only one who still values a buck.

Hey Vostok I eyeballed the KC's Afgani but opted out for the northern lights special to see how it compares to some of my old NL.
Still wondering what KC added to make it special. Anyone know for sure?
peace
GT

I've grown out several KC Brains packs over the years, but by far Afgani Special is the strangest,
no worries tho I got more than I bargained for, as the sales blurb says

Afghani Special
(indica)
This Afghani strain can be grown indoor as well as outdoor. Its ancestors are an old Afghani strain,
crossed over with a new double Afghani. This indica has a strong sweet scent,
the leaves are wide and dark green.
It is a weed from the good old days.

Inside flowering 6-9 weeks
height. 105-135 cm yield up to 135 gram

Outside flowering 7-10 weeks
height: 250-300 cm yield up to 700 gram
harvest end of September

I still have the Mango and Nthrn Lights in the seed freezer, waiting to go, of the 5 seeds of this,
I've grown out 3, and the one male was sterile ...? that really pissed me off?

result:
I still wanna grow this babe out and have her in my collection, as mentioned above,
shes a 'dirty bitch' and will block up you toking gear quicker than, mouse stuck in a California water pump.

But it is like KCB says a heavy stone from the 70's, even got me playing ACDC ..lol

link: http://www.kcbrains.com/

 

[Bob Green]

A lot of it depends on what reason you have for growing. Some people will pop a few hundred seeds of WIFI to beat out every dealer, collective, and dispensary in SoCal. They will make tons of money off of the new "clone only" flowers.

Someone who just wants a half way decent smoke for themselves does not need to go through all that.

Some find victory in the hunt. Some find victory in saving a buck.

You just need to define your goals. I think their are a few diamonds in the rough as far as cheap seeds. Escobar is a prime example. But guys like Archive, CSG, Karma, Chimera have winners found rather easily. I would rather pay a bigger price upfront then waist time, space, and nutrients on a subpar end product. You only need to find one plant to make into a mother. Not to mention you can always S1, or F2. Then you are set. Stable and unstable come in cheap and expensive.

Seed/clone trading will be the waive of the future. Things are getting more legal every day. But breeders don't make no where near as much off of these seeds as a lot of people lead you to believe. That's the real hype.

It's like lawyers for example. You could hire a $1000 per hour lawyer for traffic ticket. But it would be overkill. But if you are in a high stakes divorce and your lawyer has a $1200 retainer while your ex has a stud lawyer/federal judge that cost $1000 per hour you are about to get the shit end of the stick. HARD!

Try to take your pounds of KC Brains to a dispensary in Cali. You might just get turned away completely. But for sure that guy that paid $1000 for 100 seeds of a well proven top breeder will make his money back on one elbow.

I'll take my chances with 10 Stardawg seeds from Top Dawg over 100 of any seed from KCB. And then comes the Amstradam taste test challenge like Pulp Fiction.

Matter of goals and prospective. A lot of my best seeds came free. A a lot of breeders would pay a ton of money for them.

 

[relic1981]

dont forget about peak seeds. 3 bucks a seed. im in Humboldt and usually work with clones but every once in a while i like to pop some seeds and i was given a few ppacks of peak seed's blueberry (very good, they use 3 diff blueberries to make it including dj shorts bb) their northern berry and skunk berry are good too and now they have kush strains that should be quite nice...

cannacopia for sure, id go with the genius cross or rks... for a little more money mandala has some great strains too. premium seeds id go with bodhi, Bog, or barneys farm for quality. there is also quite a few cali based seed companies that are fairly priced, about 5$ per seed
i recommend you check out ganja rebel seeds.. they have some really nice genetics at a really good price.

 

[Cannavore]

have you thought about mr nice? 18 count seed packs starting at $65 ($3.60/seed)

 

[Dirt Life]

Great points you make, Bob. Most times about "cheap" seeds, its the quality or the variability you hear about; nice to see a different take on economic seeds, and makes financial sense.

 

[Infinitesimal]

Stability, do they grow uniform with a minimum of phenotypes. In a premium strain I expect that 85% will be exactly what the breeder says. Cheap line I don't expect so much maybe 50% but you take what you can get.

good luck with that, its just not the genetic nature of cannabis... and without the proper R&D work following scientific protocols (which most "breeders" dont even understand the basics of) it is a near impossiblity without using a limited selection of bottlenecked genotypes which are already true breeding. (which you should be able to see the trends of breeders and know which lines thses are)

for most varieties you need to pop at least 50-60 seeds to have some level of certainty in regards to finding the best expression within the line.

if you are familiar with economics and the principal of trade off costs, every trait you want to have in one plant will cost you other traits... for example if you want resinous, unique smelling and tasting buds with a potent and unique high you may have to sacrafice things like flowering time or bud structure or yield etc. etc....

and the more traits you want in the same specimen the more plants you will have to grow in order to find the exact combonation your looking for... its unavoidable.

in MOST cases you would be lucky to get an expression roughly matching the breeder description from just 10 seeds