Earth Juice Users

[Tactical Farmer]

Its kinda a pain to deal with situations like your in but its a good learning experience for the long run. Different strains at the same time adds to the difficulty especially at first. Take lots of notes so you don't forget the important things. If you get that PH down to 6.5ish next round you will see HUGE improvements. More peat & less lime...

Its ALOT easier to raise the soils PH than lower it..

Its worth the time to check runoff with feedings even though its not going to be as accurate as water but it will give you some info ahead of time so you can decide what to do next time.

Since you just fed, I leaning towards a water check next time. If the EC is low you can always just add some EJ to some water & give them another boost right then.

Im thinking you are going to need to feed acidic teas & waterings for awhile to work at that 7.21 soil.

That damn lime makes it very hard to drop PH even with the battery acid like unbubbled EJ.

Well I fed last night. As you might remember my run off ph was 7.21 average. I fed an EJ tea of EC .65, to the plants with lower EC numbers and cut that in half for the ones with higher EC numbers, and they all got 2 tsp of mex guano as a top dress. I added 5ml of cannazyme per gallon just before feeding, the ph was 3.92. It looks like they took it well, at lights out they looked a little more perky anyway.

Depending on how they respond, I will feed another tea, then in a few days, water for a run off test again, or do another test next watering.

Any reason not to do a run off test with tea? As long as you subtract the EC of the tea, it seems doable, anyone? scrappy

Once things are dialed in this testing gets fun, when your "ying / ph" & "yang / ec" are properly joined together its like magic.

 

[Scrappy4]

Its kinda a pain to deal with situations like your in but its a good learning experience for the long run. Different strains at the same time adds to the difficulty especially at first. Take lots of notes so you don't forget the important things. If you get that PH down to 6.5ish next round you will see HUGE improvements. More peat & less lime...
quote]

It's like hitting a moving target, man. I was at ph 6.47 when i transplanted into these smart pots a 3.5 weeks ago.

I got a soil probe for testing soil ph plus it's a moisture meter. I found it handy for mixing soil, and checking pots. Anyway it is like a $70 deal with a12 inch soil probe. (compost wizard accurate 8) Just before the run off test, i tested my soil at ph's from 6.6 to 6.8. I do the run test and all the run off is over 7, with the ph meter. Now I sit here stoned and wonder if I got good numbers with just a trickle of run off, or if one of my meters is whack. After I fed the "battery acid" at ph 3.92, the soil ph, on the probe, went quickly into the high 5's. I tend to have more trust in the ph meter, than the probe though. hit, hit pass................scrappy

 

[FinestKind]

Its kinda a pain to deal with situations like your in but its a good learning experience for the long run. Different strains at the same time adds to the difficulty especially at first. Take lots of notes so you don't forget the important things. If you get that PH down to 6.5ish next round you will see HUGE improvements. More peat & less lime...
quote]

It's like hitting a moving target, man. I was at ph 6.47 when i transplanted into these smart pots a 3.5 weeks ago.

I got a soil probe for testing soil ph plus it's a moisture meter. I found it handy for mixing soil, and checking pots. Anyway it is like a $70 deal with a12 inch soil probe. (compost wizard accurate 8) Just before the run off test, i tested my soil at ph's from 6.6 to 6.8. I do the run test and all the run off is over 7, with the ph meter. Now I sit here stoned and wonder if I got good numbers with just a trickle of run off, or if one of my meters is whack. After I fed the "battery acid" at ph 3.92, the soil ph, on the probe, went quickly into the high 5's. I tend to have more trust in the ph meter, than the probe though. hit, hit pass................scrappy

Hey man, are you using the Control Wizard probe? I have the same thing and have been told by multiple users on here that it is unreliable at best... I went out and got a meter for that reason. I'd maybe do a side-by-side test, which I haven't bothered to do, but I'd be willing to bet dimes to dollars that the readings won't be the same- and I'd go with the meter readings before the probe readings. Just a thought.

Edit: Just noticed you said it was a "Compost wizard" probe. Not sure about that one.

FK

 

[Scrappy4]

Hey man, are you using the Control Wizard probe? I have the same thing and have been told by multiple users on here that it is unreliable at best... I went out and got a meter for that reason. I'd maybe do a side-by-side test, which I haven't bothered to do, but I'd be willing to bet dimes to dollars that the readings won't be the same- and I'd go with the meter readings before the probe readings. Just a thought.

Edit: Just noticed you said it was a "Compost wizard" probe. Not sure about that one.

FK

I googled it and it is the same one, it must be branded under different names. Glad I got the other meter.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

ive always had the same issues with PH testing, the papers are decent for a 2nd or 3rd opinion but the digital meters suck.

ive never tried the probes as the reviews are quite bad, now that bluelab makes a KICKASS EC wand meter that works PERFECT for going on 3 years & has EXCELLENT reviews but there PH wand blows, expensive hanna tri meter blows for PH, cheap hanna "red" meters blow.

the ones ive used work good for a few month then start to act up, maybe im not storing them properly.

ive spent hundreds of dollars on PH meters the first year & still battle with the ph meters acting up, but since now im familiar with my reused / homemade compost & how EJ is acidic on day 1, 5-6 on day 2 & 6-7 on day 3, its not something to get worked up over anymore. my compost will be near perfect (with NO LIME) in the midish 6 range then they get a two day bubble (mid range PH tea) most of the grow. Some 1 day & some 3 day bubble time to work the lower & upper ranges for ph range diversity (some elements uptake better).

Anymore I maybe give them a PH check once a month & if they are getting low (runoff PH under 6.1) if so they get a few 3 day alkaline bubbled teas.

On the flip side, if they are getting high (runoff PH over 6.7) they get a few acidic short bubble teas.

FK uses a mostly peat based mix so lime is jiving in his mix but Scappy (if your meters correct) im 99.9% sure lime is messing your soil up, maybe try cutting WAY back on the amount or cut it out completely.

Lime can & will take PH way over 7 & keep it there. EJ in its most acidic application will have little affect lowering the PH if the soil is not suited for lime.

i think (unfortunately) its best to have several different items to check PH, papers, digital (multiple if possible), maybe a good probe, until you get dialed in. Hell if you have to spend $200 every year on stuff, it will pay for itself & more in extra yield. Plus all the headaches & problems will be a thing of the past.

 

[FinestKind]

What meter do you have now? And what do you think of the BlueLab Truncheon for EC?

One method you didn't mention for checking pH (one which nobody mentions) is the drops from GH- this thing here, which is extremely accurate, within it's range (the test runs from 4.0 to 6.0 in whole numbers, then 6.5, and 7.0 to 9.0) and I often use it to back up my meter, or when my meter has gone wonky, which it does now and again. (And that's how you write a run-on sentence!)

FK

 

[Scrappy4]

What meter do you have now? And what do you think of the BlueLab Truncheon for EC?

One method you didn't mention for checking pH (one which nobody mentions) is the drops from GH- this thing here, which is extremely accurate, within it's range (the test runs from 4.0 to 6.0 in whole numbers, then 6.5, and 7.0 to 9.0) and I often use it to back up my meter, or when my meter has gone wonky, which it does now and again. (And that's how you write a run-on sentence!)

FK

I have the ph dropper tester. In my case it was not accurate at all. It is quite possible it was me though. When i first got the meter I would compare the two, but the dropper method was often a whole point off.

Truthfully though, I'm getting pretty good at picking out high ph plants by eye........unfortunately................scrappy

 

[FinestKind]

I have the ph dropper tester. In my case it was not accurate at all. It is quite possible it was me though. When i first got the meter I would compare the two, but the dropper method was often a whole point off.

Truthfully though, I'm getting pretty good at picking out high ph plants by eye........unfortunately................scrappy

Sorry about that, that sucks Weird, I've had two different dropper kits now (they last forever) and they've both been spot-on with my meter.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I've never owned a pH meter that didn't require periodic calibration. I use mine weekly and calibrate every 3-4 weeks when readings start to vary from my drop tests. I have 3 calibration solutions: 4.0, 7.0 & 10.0.

Every time I calibrate I set the neutral first and then either the high or low. In other words, every other calibration test is either the 4.0 or 10.0. This method seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

What meter do you have now? And what do you think of the BlueLab Truncheon for EC?

I got the small black hanna meter PH & EC = http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=002003&ProdCode=HI 98129

Got a few of these cheap red ones for backup or 2nd opinion = http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=002003&ProdCode=HI 98103

The Bluelab EC wand has worked flawless with no special care for 3 years.

One method you didn't mention for checking pH (one which nobody mentions) is the drops from GH- this thing here, which is extremely accurate, within it's range (the test runs from 4.0 to 6.0 in whole numbers, then 6.5, and 7.0 to 9.0) and I often use it to back up my meter, or when my meter has gone wonky, which it does now and again. (And that's how you write a run-on sentence!)

I never noticed the GH kit - might try that for another backup.

FK

Ive been getting lazy on PH & it made its nasty presence known again with my silica powder incident which cost me a few oz at least. WTF microherd, I thought in a humus rich environment you would balance out my mistakes... NOT

Going to get new probes for my hannas, new calibration solutions, clean & store them with the proper solutions.

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[FinestKind]

I have an ecotester pH meter, and will be buying the matching TDS meter. The warranty already replaced my first one free of cost after getting some water into the battery compartment. I've had this meter for a couple years and EVERY time I go to calibrate it, it's still calibrated. Then again I don't use 3.0, 7.0 and 10.0, so maybe I should look into a 3 point calibration to make sure.

Huh, interesting... I have the same meter, and mine never stays calibrated! I mean if I use it once, I feel as if I need to check it 15 minutes later... sometimes it even shoots up to like 9.something when it's in the 7.0 solution, and then I can't calibrate it (because it would see the 7.0 calibration as the 10.0)... my hydro guy said to bring it in the next time it goes wonky like that and he'd give me a new one. Good to hear that they at least can be reliable.

FK

 

[FinestKind]

The ph was consistent in all the run offs. I watered good, then came back in an hour or two and watered again till there was run off. I sucked up the run off in a turkey baster, and got a small amount of each to test. Should I have let the run off flow more? Is there a better way?

Okay, so now I'm curious if my method is accurate.

I give them the amount of water I know they need to reach saturation but not runoff...

Then I wait like 15 minutes (sometimes 20), and give them enough water to get maybe 2 cups of runoff (from one plant), this from a 3 gallon pot... then I test that.

Does this sound reasonable? The reason I ask is because my EC numbers have been way high since Day 1 (literally), and I just want to make sure that I'm going about the testing procedure properly. Thanks.

FK

 

[loki3xb]

I have an Ecotester PH2 and it works really well, never goes farther than .2 out of wack, and I keep it in regular tap water. Maybe its just your unit...

 

[Greensub]

I have the ph dropper tester. In my case it was not accurate at all. It is quite possible it was me though. When i first got the meter I would compare the two, but the dropper method was often a whole point off.

Truthfully though, I'm getting pretty good at picking out high ph plants by eye........unfortunately................scrappy

I've been having trouble with drop method myself since I switched over to EJ... mixed at higher strengths (especially with the high brix added in), the brew takes on enough color that I have to use extra drops to overcome the "6.0" natural color.

I'll look at the vial close while adding drops and at first it floats on the top and I can easily tell if it's kinda green or kinda red, but then I shake it up and the natural yellow color throws it off. I'd kept adding too much PH up trying to get it to look like 6.5 ph. I was ending up 7-7.5 ish in reality.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Okay, so now I'm curious if my method is accurate.

I give them the amount of water I know they need to reach saturation but not runoff...

Then I wait like 15 minutes (sometimes 20), and give them enough water to get maybe 2 cups of runoff (from one plant), this from a 3 gallon pot... then I test that.

Does this sound reasonable? The reason I ask is because my EC numbers have been way high since Day 1 (literally), and I just want to make sure that I'm going about the testing procedure properly. Thanks.

FK

The thing I run into & im pretty sure this is the case for most everyone else, is when I first water when the soil is bone dry at the top & a good bit of water flows down the sides & doesn't make very good contact with the soil. So that first shot isn't much good for readings. Come back in about 1/2 hr & they take a good bit more water at that point. A small drinking cup of that is enough for a good test.

I would suggest to you Finest Kind to get you plants under 2.0 due to there size, if you need to give them just water for awhile thats just whats gotta be done. Next run cut back on the amendments & or ferts in veg so when you get through the stretch you can give them bloom every watering.

Thanks for the headsup on the Ecotester PH2, might get one.



Welcome Greensub

 

[Greensub]

Thanks for the welcome... I've been following along for some time, but have yet to really put most of the advice here into practice. I really need to, just getting started slow...

Thanks for all the advice you've given in the thread Tactical Farmer, it's been really interesting... I've also been following along the Big Plants Outdoors Thread in Tom Hill's forums (10lb plants)... (he carries around 5 meters I think), all this use of meters in organic gardening is great I think... do you ever do anything like check your brix level or any other soil tests than run-off EC?

 

[Tactical Farmer]

NP - if you've been a long time lurker then you know what the majority of the organic growers opinion is on PH & EC with Organics here.

Im def not making alot of cyber friends here thats for sure.

Tom Hill what does he know...

Ive never heard about checking brix levels but it does sound interesting ?

 

[Greensub]

NP - if you've been a long time lurker then you know what the majority of the organic growers opinion is on PH & EC with Organics here.

I know what you mean... I just can't see where anyone would argue against knowing more about your soil's state of being.

Im def not making alot of cyber friends here thats for sure.

I for one have appreciated your input

Tom Hill what does he know...

Ive never heard about checking brix levels but it does sound interesting ?

I'll find the brix reference, it has to with checking the nutrient level in the leaf itself with some meter.... as for bringing up that thread... it's another all organic grow (grows really), utilizing adjusting PH & using some earth juice products, it's a long but good read, it chronicles a bunch of outdoor growers using his style of growing big plants in nor cal. (not trying to hi-jack, just thought you'd find it interesting)

here's a link...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159846

 

[Greensub]

"I recommend a pH meter, an ERGS (energy released per gram of soil) meter, and an Na (sodium) meter at the very least. The other two meters in my arsenal are an ORP (Oxygen reduction potential) meter and a refractometer (reads degrees Brix/%sucrose),"

there was a question about this and he answered

I am not incredibly strict about the readings, I use them to try to make educated decisions mostly. ERGS I like to see around 600-800, but if there was something I knew to be suppressing the reading, say cold temps or lack of Oxygen, then I might wait for it to warm-up some (if warming-up was in the forecast) before taking action etc. The ORP meter is used mostly to adjust foliar feedings, but if I had to flush, or do some heavy feeding right on top of a watering during cooler weather etc, I might adjust Oxygen content via H2o2- that target is about ORP 150. The Na (Sodium meter) I start to get concerned when it reads around 2.3. If it reads lower (more of a problem), I'll take action. The goal is to complex/tie-up this problem element. Do so by kicking-up bio activity - add a catalyst, or any number of "compost starters" in lower quantities. 12 degrees brix is a good reading on the refractometer for cannabis.

there's a lot more buried in that thread... between your thread and his, I've got to get me some meters.

I guess you use a refractometer to measure brix (from what I gather it reads nutrient levels in the plant through the leaves some how)

anyways, I'm interested in any way of growing plants better, whether a lot of people do it or not. I've thought your advice and observations here in this thread to be quite sound.