Earth Juice Users

[Scrappy4]

I look at meters as another control. Or another educational tool. And it seems the more you can control, like air, lights, heat, water the more you learn and the more you can alter conditions to be more in your favor. It can get confusing, but at worst you should be able to spot trends.

By using a meter in my current grow i was able to lower the average ph of my plants from 7.21ph to 7ph over a couple of waterings. Without a meter I would be giving them big shots of organic nutes (EJ) because that is how I did in better times, and the plants would be really suffering.

Still, meter or not, my main concern is my micro herd. And when things are rocking, it would be helpfull to understand why, so when things are not going well, you can look to the numbers for the reasons, if not the direct cause............scrappy

 

[FinestKind]

My understanding is that Brix is a measure of the sugars in the leaves- the more sugars, the healthier the plant, and specific to marijuana, the "sweeter" the buds. Interestingly, or maybe inevitably, organic plants have consistently higher brix levels than "conventional" (I hate that word- like the fossil fuel ferts were around before manure!) plants. Brix is used a lot in fruit production (for more obvious reasons- you want that orange/apple good and sweet)...

FK

 

[Greensub]

That makes a lot of sense... (both the meters & brix explanation), I'm gonna invest in a ph meter really soon (a little cash poor right now... but I need one). I don't usually water to run-off (I'm using 10gal pots right now, and with current plant size it keeps the roots kinda wet for a little too long), but I'm gonna have to work it in occasionally and find out what's going on down there.

I wish someone made a decent soil probe for PH testing, I've never come across a reference to one that many people say works well. Although I expect if any of them has a chance of being accurate it's the control wizard mentioned earlier. I've read of some good experiences with that one as a moisture probe, apparently it works well for that. One guy I seem to remember made the point that it was really important to be anal about cleaning properly it each and every time. I also seem to remember one guys opinion on the control wizard's PH operation being that it was only accurate for PH at certain moisture levels, i.e... if the soil was too wet or too dry, it would throw off the meter's PH reading. (I mainly want one for moisture regulation, but if I can get it to be accurate for PH too, that would be a big plus)

I was also wondering how accurate taking a sample of soil from the pot and soaking it in neutral water overnight to get a soil PH reading rather than checking the run-off. However I've wondered about the accuracy of doing so... does soil PH vary in different areas of the pot? (If I do that with some soil off the top will it give me an accurate idea of the PH at the bottom too?) Or is the PH of the medium essentially uniform throughout?

Thanks for the input guys...

 

[FinestKind]

That makes a lot of sense... (both the meters & brix explanation), I'm gonna invest in a ph meter really soon (a little cash poor right now... but I need one). I don't usually water to run-off (I'm using 10gal pots right now, and with current plant size it keeps the roots kinda wet for a little too long), but I'm gonna have to work it in occasionally and find out what's going on down there.

I wish someone made a decent soil probe for PH testing, I've never come across a reference to one that many people say works well. Although I expect if any of them has a chance of being accurate it's the control wizard mentioned earlier. I've read of some good experiences with that one as a moisture probe, apparently it works well for that. One guy I seem to remember made the point that it was really important to be anal about cleaning properly it each and every time. I also seem to remember one guys opinion on the control wizard's PH operation being that it was only accurate for PH at certain moisture levels, i.e... if the soil was too wet or too dry, it would throw off the meter's PH reading. (I mainly want one for moisture regulation, but if I can get it to be accurate for PH too, that would be a big plus)

I was also wondering how accurate taking a sample of soil from the pot and soaking it in neutral water overnight to get a soil PH reading rather than checking the run-off. However I've wondered about the accuracy of doing so... does soil PH vary in different areas of the pot? (If I do that with some soil off the top will it give me an accurate idea of the PH at the bottom too?) Or is the PH of the medium essentially uniform throughout?

Thanks for the input guys...

If you're just interested in the moisture testing, this thing works just as well, in my experience.... I must say, it does take the guesswork out of watering, and it's considerably cheaper than the Control Wizard. In fact, within a few months of buying my Control Wizard, the moisture test function stopped working... me not keeping receipts as I do, couldn't get the warranty for it.

I've had a few of the RapiTest meters over the years, and they last a good year at a time... for $12, well worth it.

FK

 

[Greensub]

If you're just interested in the moisture testing, this thing works just as well, in my experience.... I must say, it does take the guesswork out of watering, and it's considerably cheaper than the Control Wizard. In fact, within a few months of buying my Control Wizard, the moisture test function stopped working... me not keeping receipts as I do, couldn't get the warranty for it.

I've had a few of the RapiTest meters over the years, and they last a good year at a time... for $12, well worth it.

FK

yeah... I've used them in the past... they just didn't last that great for me. By the way... were you religious about cleaning the probe tip with that little scrubber they give you? From what I've read (and remember from using one of those rapitest meters) it's really important for longevity that you clean it every time. You know thanks for reminding me about those, I'm gonna go pick one up right now (home depot has them)... although I have such big pots (10 gal), that I wonder if the tip will go deep enough to get a good reading. (come to think of it... the rapitests they have at home depot are longer than the one in that link I seem to remember)

Thanks...

 

[FinestKind]

yeah... I've used them in the past... they just didn't last that great for me. By the way... were you religious about cleaning the probe tip with that little scrubber they give you? From what I've read (and remember from using one of those rapitest meters) it's really important for longevity that you clean it every time. You know thanks for reminding me about those, I'm gonna go pick one up right now (home depot has them)... although I have such big pots (10 gal), that I wonder if the tip will go deep enough to get a good reading. (come to think of it... the rapitests they have at home depot are longer than the one in that link I seem to remember)

Thanks...

I never cleaned my RapiTests, but I did clean the ControlWizard with the scrubby (and then 500 grit sandpaper when the scrubby wore out) religiously...

Yeah, the best RapiTest I ever had was the one with the longer probe (I think it was around 10"), rather than the one with the wire... haven't seen one around in a while, though, I just figured they stopped making them... I often forget to look on the internet for such things... best of luck whatever way you go!

FK

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Greensub - I don't think testing the soil at the top is going to give much of an accurate PH reading. Now taking a handful of soil before planting & testing that like you said is a very good idea.

What a huge advantage it makes to start a grow with the proper PH & not overfed. If the PH is high add a good bit of peat moss, in the rare case its under 6 then a little bit more lime is in order.

You can spend the entire grow trying to get PH down if over limed & never even get it down to where you want it, but if you took the extra 10 min to add more peat before planting you will be loving life.

 

[FinestKind]

The thing I run into & im pretty sure this is the case for most everyone else, is when I first water when the soil is bone dry at the top & a good bit of water flows down the sides & doesn't make very good contact with the soil. So that first shot isn't much good for readings. Come back in about 1/2 hr & they take a good bit more water at that point. A small drinking cup of that is enough for a good test.

I would suggest to you Finest Kind to get you plants under 2.0 due to there size, if you need to give them just water for awhile thats just whats gotta be done. Next run cut back on the amendments & or ferts in veg so when you get through the stretch you can give them bloom every watering.

Thanks for the headsup on the Ecotester PH2, might get one.



Welcome Greensub

Hey Tac, thanks as always for the help.

I don't think it was the veg that did it... although I have decided not to use BioTone the next time around, as I think it screwed me up for a little while there. Remember, my veg time is only 3 weeks in small pots, so I don't know where the EC from the runoff came from at transplant and flip to 12/12... I only fed once with 1t each of Grow, Cat, and Micro. The only thing I can pinpoint is the fact that I fed them 2TB of Grow, and a lot of it, at transplant... about a gallon and 2/3 per plant. I'm thinking next time I'll give them 1TB per gallon and get some bloom into the mix... Ahh, it's always next time, isn't it?

By the way, at this point last time I had fed with just over 2TB of Grow (spread out into 3 different feedings), plus the Cal/Mag which had N in it, and way more of everything else...

FK

 

[Greensub]

Greensub - I don't think testing the soil at the top is going to give much of an accurate PH reading. Now taking a handful of soil before planting & testing that like you said is a very good idea.

That makes sense to me... I didn't even bother trying that method.

What a huge advantage it makes to start a grow with the proper PH & not overfed. If the PH is high add a good bit of peat moss, in the rare case its under 6 then a little bit more lime is in order.

You can spend the entire grow trying to get PH down if over limed & never even get it down to where you want it, but if you took the extra 10 min to add more peat before planting you will be loving life.

I never added lime... even though I read all the people saying too... I just figured the mix already had enough. I've also found gypsum useful for lowering PH if you don't want to add more peat moss. (it's also good for flushing salts out of your soil), in the past I've added gypsum & lime and had good results (about 10 years ago, I'm back from a long break from growing) I didn't use either this time.

I bought the ultimate cheapy soil tester from lowe's last night (moisture, PH, Light for $9.95) and checked it against my run-off and it was spot on... I wonder how long it will last.

Looks like run-off is ok... I watered with PH 6.0 plain water and checked the run-off, most came out as around 6.5 with a couple being 7's

I still really need a good PH tester for liquid and an EC meter but I can't afford it right now.

Don't get me wrong, only one plant out of nine really looks off, and that one was over fertilized, which makes me think the others are close to being over fertilized too. Wish I could have checked the run-off EC to know for sure.

I think a lot of it is due to my ph being of while feeding earlier in the cycle... as I mentioned before, I had some trouble using the drop method because of the coloration from the EJ (especially after adding the Hi-Brix molasses)

Anyone with a meter notice how the Hi-Brix affects PH? I can add it to 7.5 PH water and the drops look like a PH of 6, or I add it to a 5.5 PH mix and then the color of the sample looks like... 6 again.

 

[FinestKind]

Any of you guys ever experience sulfur deficiencies when using EJ?

I think that's what's going on here... this happens with some frequency. This is real early on, so I don't even know if you'll be able to see it in these pics or not. This is a young mom that was transplanted into this pot maybe 3 weeks ago.



Can you see how the tops are yellowing a bit, and the leaf margins are starting to curl in towards each other? The reason I suspect sulfur is that it is obviously a micro (or secondary) deficiency, and S is one of the few elements not found anywhere in the EJ line. What do you guys think?

 

[DeZwaan]

^
I've been seeing a lot of that in my garden as well. I'm attributing it to cold stress. Has your room been running a little cool lately?

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Sup DeZwann, howdy..

Cold might be the problem, I see the fan leaf stems are looking purple, thats a sign of a cold plant not functioning properly.

Is this a mass problem or just a single plant being pissy ?

Your not over feeding again are ya ?

I see that happen when the plants rootbound, a transplant to a bigger pot with some fresh soil works for me.

 

[dirtstyle]

Just applied my first EJ/EWC tea to the veggies. i used 1 T Grow, 1/2 T bloom and cat per gallon along with about a cup of vermiblend per 5 gal bucket.made two buckets. bubbled them for 48 hrs. one was spot on ph wise (which was hard because with the drops the ideal ph color is piss yellow and my tea was a similar color in small quantities, it was black/brown in the bucket) the other was around 8. just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this. both were identical set ups. I'm hoping this jump to EJ from FF goes well...

 

[FinestKind]

^
I've been seeing a lot of that in my garden as well. I'm attributing it to cold stress. Has your room been running a little cool lately?

Sup DeZwann, howdy..

Cold might be the problem, I see the fan leaf stems are looking purple, thats a sign of a cold plant not functioning properly.

Is this a mass problem or just a single plant being pissy ?

Your not over feeding again are ya ?

I see that happen when the plants rootbound, a transplant to a bigger pot with some fresh soil works for me.

Boy, you guys are good... My mother room is my "basement", which this being winter is running around 60 degrees... I've got heating mats to keep the roots at 70 degrees, but unfortunately, them's the breaks. I wish I had two basements... or at least, one with less other crap in it!

Tac, it's periodic amongst all my moms; although I feel like I've seen it in my flower room as well, which is definitely not too cold.

Nope, not overfeeding, but thanks for checking up on me.

And, at least in this case, definitely not rootbound... I do see it more often in my rootbound moms, but this one is in plenty of fresh soil.

FK

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Just applied my first EJ/EWC tea to the veggies. i used 1 T Grow, 1/2 T bloom and cat per gallon along with about a cup of vermiblend per 5 gal bucket.made two buckets. bubbled them for 48 hrs. one was spot on ph wise (which was hard because with the drops the ideal ph color is piss yellow and my tea was a similar color in small quantities, it was black/brown in the bucket) the other was around 8. just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this. both were identical set ups. I'm hoping this jump to EJ from FF goes well...

Wow, another new juicehead..

Whats your T ? Tablespoon TB or Teaspoon TS ?

Doesn't matter now, just saying.

Im not sure why your buckets read differently, might just be the testing method is off ?

FF (Fox Farm) nutes are far from organic so im hoping you are not using re-used soil from those grows ?

I wish you good luck with the Juice, feel free to post up questions.

Whats your soil mix ?

__________________________________________

FK said = I feel like I've seen it in my flower room as well.

I feel like confused when I read that ? lol Are you speaking of the past or present or both ?

Ive only had a sulfur problem once, when I had an emergency & had to run a little floro light on big plants for several days. I had just watered & the roots got waterlogged causing a rapid lockout of numerous elements, one being sulfur.

I always put a small dash of Espoma garden sulfur pellets when pre-mixing soil & it keeps the sulfur demons away.

Im not sure that your strange issue at the tops is sulfur though, its kinda strange ? I keep thinking mag but don't think its that.. humm

Take some more pics of your different strangenesses & I will dig into my database for info.

 

[FinestKind]

Wow, another new juicehead..

Whats your T ? Tablespoon TB or Teaspoon TS ?

Doesn't matter now, just saying.

Im not sure why your buckets read differently, might just be the testing method is off ?

FF (Fox Farm) nutes are far from organic so im hoping you are not using re-used soil from those grows ?

I wish you good luck with the Juice, feel free to post up questions.

Whats your soil mix ?

__________________________________________

FK said = I feel like I've seen it in my flower room as well.

I feel like confused when I read that ? lol Are you speaking of the past or present or both ?

Ive only had a sulfur problem once, when I had an emergency & had to run a little floro light on big plants for several days. I had just watered & the roots got waterlogged causing a rapid lockout of numerous elements, one being sulfur.

I always put a small dash of Espoma garden sulfur pellets when pre-mixing soil & it keeps the sulfur demons away.

Im not sure that your strange issue at the tops is sulfur though, its kinda strange ? I keep thinking mag but don't think its that.. humm

Take some more pics of your different strangenesses & I will dig into my database for info.

Hmm, I'll have to look into those sulfur pellets..

I don't think it's Mag either... or Iron... I've been staring at books I have and pics on-line for a while now, and I can't seem to pinpoint it.... which suggests that it is not any one nutrient (or at least not a deficiency).... which is why the cold made sense, at least for the moms. I will take some pics if it shows up again in the flower room. Thanks man!

FK

 

[dirtstyle]

Capital T for tablespoon.

Never reused soil, it gets dumped out in the woods miles away. I've been playing with my mix for the better part of a year now, i'm on version 5. pro mix base with added perlite, EWC,bone and blood, DE, greensand, kelp, azomite. oh and Dolo lime. versions 3 and 4 had coco in it and it really fucked things up. I've never seen so many lockouts/deficiencies at once. now that its gone things are growing well. got a local cut going with some "elite" bagseed clones my friends are trading. also have one monster whiteberry from paradise. hoping they dig the switch.

one question that never got answered in my thread was if anyone brews a double strength batch and then cuts it after. i need to do this. wasn't sure if too much nutes would mess with the microbes

 

[Scrappy4]

Capital T for tablespoon.
one question that never got answered in my thread was if anyone brews a double strength batch and then cuts it after. i need to do this. wasn't sure if too much nutes would mess with the microbes

I do most of the time, I brew the tea, (EJ or EWC or both) then adjust the ppm or EC to whatever range I'm looking for with water additions. Although microbes are paramount in our thinking, the electric conductivity (EC) is important for nutrient uptake. Too much and they refuse to take up nutes, and lockouts and deficiencies start. It can be a difficult balance until you get your soil and nutrients in your personal sweet zone...scrappy

 

[dirtstyle]

thank you scrappy.

any suggestions on a good ppm range for EJ. i'd like to do a lesser amount every watering, instead of an alternating cycle. i have a cheapo hannah meter that only reads ppm, no E.C.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Well said Scrappy...

Dirtstyle = No need to toss out that soil now that your using EJ, as long as your not using ferts like FF anymore that stuff is way to precious to get rid of.

Brew the teas strong & cut it with water "no problemo".

You can convert PPM numbers to EC (I think) if you use a formula ?

Water your plants with (just water) & test the runoff juice that comes out the bottom & post your readings with the size of your plant.