Earth Juice Users

[Scrappy4]

Nitrogen Deficiency.... N is available to plants in a pH range between 6-8 so it's not (only) your pH that has issues. N deficiencies 2 weeks into flower is the most common time and you WILL lose yield if you underfeed them at this point. I have found there isn't enough N in EJ grow used at 1 TBS / gal... you either need a LARGE dose of EJ Grow going into flower or you need to give them another source of N. I use Age Old grow, it is pretty hot and will maintain N levels used at 1/2 TBS / gal in my system... smaller pots need more. This is yet another issue a $20 soil test kit would have avoided / solved....


Tac, yes overliming is def. an issue if used at those rates. And yes, people add lime to mixes like ffof which don't require any, and this can be a problem too.

This was not a case of N def at all, it is a fully amended soil. Since the previous run ran into what did look like def I made sure it had N. The problem seems to be lockout. Oh, and I did have a twenty dollar tester, now I have a better one.......scrappy

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Try a few or even just 1 container with no lime, add approx 1TBS per 5 to 10 gal of Grandmas molasses to the mix instead of the lime & see how that works.

FK & I think that his mid flower extreme yellowing was from a major N overload lockout so it can go both ways.

 

[FinestKind]

Try a few or even just 1 container with no lime, add approx 1TBS per 5 to 10 gal of Grandmas molasses to the mix instead of the lime & see how that works.

FK & I think that his mid flower extreme yellowing was from a major N overload lockout so it can go both ways.

Well, I use more molasses than that (about 2tsp per gallon) in my weekly feeding, so I think I've got it covered... somehow, I'm just learning that molasses contains Mg at all... what about the Ca though?

Thanks for reminding of the cardinal rule, btw... try any major change in small increments. I have a tendency to go with the "all or nothing" approach (which almost always gets me into deep doodoo.)

FK

P.S. I just checked my pH yesterday at week 8 1/2 of flowering... what went in was pH 6.3 water, and what came out was 6.5 or 6.6, starting to ride a little high.

 

[Scrappy4]

I tested some pro mix, just pro mix and rain water, let it sit an hour of so and it tested at ph 7. So I think your right on in your hesitance to use more lime in the mix Tac. Plus the lime I was using is actually calcium carbonate, so I could have had even more issues, like too much cal, locking out mag or something. I have three or four weeks till my next run so I'm looking at skipping the lime additions and add peat till the mix comes in at 6.5ph. scrappy

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Well, I use more molasses than that (about 2tsp per gallon) in my weekly feeding, so I think I've got it covered... somehow, I'm just learning that molasses contains Mg at all... what about the Ca though?

Pretty much all grocery store molasses has Cal - Mag - Iron - Potassium (K).

Each brand has much different % of each thats why I like to have serveral different brands if a specific def shows up.

Excess of cal locks out mag & major excess of any one nute will have a negative affect on itself & other nutes.

He are some rough guides that might help.

 

[Scrappy4]

WOW! very helpfull post, thanks Tactical Farmer..........scrappy

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Brer Rabbit (Mild)

Potassium - 23%
Calcium - 2%
Magnesium 15%
Iron 10%

Brer Rabbit (Full Flavor)

Potassium 8%
Calcium 10%
Magnesium 20%
Iron 15%

Brer Rabbit (Blackstrap)

Potassium 7%
Calcium - 20%
Magnesium 25%
Iron 25%

Gramdma's Unsulfured Original

Potassium 3%
Calcium 4%
Magnesium 2%
Iron 4%

Tree of Life Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses

Potassium 500mg %?
Calcium 15%
Magnesium 10%
Iron 20%

Wholesome Organic Molasses

Potassium 20%
Calcium 10%
Magnesium 8%
Iron 15%

Plantation Blackstrap Molasses #1

Potassium 10%
Calcium 20%
Magnesium % not listed ?
Iron 20%

Plantation Blackstrap Molasses #2

Potassium 12%
Calcium 8%
Magnesium 8%
Iron 20%

Clackamas Coot = Keep in mind that those percentages are the amounts measured against the MDR (Minimum Daily Requirement) set by USDA and are not a percentage of the total amount found in a sample of a specific molasses.

 

[supermanlives]

great stuff tactical farmer

 

[FinestKind]

Wow, thanks man, that's great! One question about the charts.... is the second one antagonisms, or deficiencies?

FK

P.S.- And also thanks for the molasses info... I think I'm going to ixnay my Cal/Mag supplement altogether on this next run... sadly, my freshly purchased gallon of the stuff may be sitting around a while! I use Grandma's and whatever's available in bulk from my local co-op (I can get a gallon of it for $22), no nutritional info listed on it, though. None the less it's great to know that they all contain the same elements that I've been using my Cal/Mag+ for.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

From what ive found is, when PH is in the proper zone, a deficiency & overfert lockout will look the same on the plant.

If the PH is out of range too far for too long it will look like deficiency or overfert lockout also even if the nute levels are good.

I would recommend using the biggest containers possible, majority rootbound plants get cranky & like to act up.

Are you going to run one with no lime to compare ?

Maybe try that & one with 1TBS per gal lime instead of 2 ?

* imo the 2nd chart is describing what the plant shows for a specific nute issue (under fert or over fert or PH lockout or "other" issues) its the growers job to decide which one of those is causing the problem.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I use Grandma's and whatever's available in bulk from my local co-op (I can get a gallon of it for $22), no nutritional info listed on it, though.

Hey FK,

If you're in the Northeast you probably don't have one close to you but Publix Supermarkets has their private label unsulphered molasses for $1.99 for 16 oz.

Much cheaper than $22/gal.

Check out your local grocer and see what is available in private label stuff.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Most molasses ive looked at has a small amount of sodium, not enough to worry even me much but I would wonder about the specifics of the (non-labeled bulk type) ?

Like if it were real heavy in iron, or mag & not much cal. ALOT of the store brands are like that & that doesn't seem optimum to me.

I really wanted to try EJ Hi-Brix but it doesn't even list cal, mag, potash, iron, its got to have some in there, wtf ?

Big fancy markets can have Grandmas @ $5 but ive found it in maw-paw stores for like $2, I will clean the shelf of it, its funny the reaction you get

* IMO don't ever use honey - it has powerful anti-fungal ass kicking properties.

 

[FinestKind]

Most molasses ive looked at has a small amount of sodium, not enough to worry even me much but I would wonder about the specifics of the (non-labeled bulk type) ?

Like if it were real heavy in iron, or mag & not much cal. ALOT of the store brands are like that & that doesn't seem optimum to me.

I really wanted to try EJ Hi-Brix but it doesn't even list cal, mag, potash, iron, its got to have some in there, wtf ?

Big fancy markets can have Grandmas @ $5 but ive found it in maw-paw stores for like $2, I will clean the shelf of it, its funny the reaction you get

* IMO don't ever use honey - it has powerful anti-fungal ass kicking properties.

EJ Hi-Brix does list one element: K. It is 0-0-3. Other than that though, you're right- it is a bit strange.

The gallon of molasses I bought is actually Plantation Barbados molasses- no K listed, Ca 6%, Iron 4%, no Mg listed. Well, at least it's got the Ca and Fe.

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[FinestKind]

I always use EJ Hi-Brix because it's cheaper than any other molasses in grocery stores in my area. I'm sure there's some good deals out there, but I haven't found any. I pay $17 a gallon for the Hi-Brix, so it doesn't bother me. At 5 mL p/gal it still makes 740 gallons of tea, which is almost 25 res fills for me. Comes out to about 2.3 cents per gallon. Very reasonable.

For whatever reason, my local hydro store can't seem to get it for me. He got it once, and since then his distributor has said it is "back ordered." I'm thinking about ordering a case (2) of the 2.5 gallon jugs and seeing if it is still "back-ordered."

 

[loki3xb]

Wow looks like I missed alot...

Everybody I hope things are growing and going well for everybody.

Sorry ive been away for so long, building a new room and trying to fine tune it. Ill have to post some pics.

For the molasses, check out Wholesome Organics it has 20% per TBSP of K and a list of other goodies. I pick it up @ whole foods seems to be the only place with the big bottle, 8 bucks But I do mix Hi Brix and this Wholesome, seems to work great

 

[er·u·dite]

For whatever reason, my local hydro store can't seem to get it for me. He got it once, and since then his distributor has said it is "back ordered." I'm thinking about ordering a case (2) of the 2.5 gallon jugs and seeing if it is still "back-ordered."

Sounds like your shop owner is more concerned about the rest of the case selling than getting you what you need. IIRC this isn't the only product your shop owner doesn't want to get for you.... With the VERY limited number distributors in the industry combined with the fact he makes excuses not to stock organic products with a shelf life I'd call him out next time hes BSing you.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

you would think that with EJ now having dozens of different products they would offer a decient cal/mag/iron product, what am i missing ?

even if they did, good luck finding a shop that carries it or is willing to order it.

heck, my state shops are lucky to have the Grow & Bloom anymore & god only knows how old it is ?

EJ really needs a born date on the bottles...

 

[Scrappy4]

you would think that with EJ now having dozens of different products they would offer a decent cal/mag/iron product, what am i missing ?

even if they did, good luck finding a shop that carries it or is willing to order it.

heck, my state shops are lucky to have the Grow & Bloom anymore & god only knows how old it is ?

EJ really needs a born date on the bottles...

I use their micro blast and think it is a good product, but it does not have calcium. But Calcium is available in lots of other products. With the water in my hood you don't need cal anyway, it's loaded. I have gypsum mines twenty miles south of me and limestone quarries 100 miles north of me. So I'm cool on cal here.

My state (MI) is evolving, since our law passed in 08, so most small towns have their own hydro shop, but good luck finding organic stuff, it is mostly the high dollar chemical money traps they sell. It seems most of my shopping is at the feed/farm store anymore, and organic is a foreign language there too.........scrappy

 

[FinestKind]

you would think that with EJ now having dozens of different products they would offer a decient cal/mag/iron product, what am i missing ?

even if they did, good luck finding a shop that carries it or is willing to order it.

heck, my state shops are lucky to have the Grow & Bloom anymore & god only knows how old it is ?

EJ really needs a born date on the bottles...

Absolutely on the born on date! I'm surprised they don't have one... and yet, not surprised... they don't want to be getting back product from their distributors now, do they?