Earth Juice Users

[Scrappy4]

Thanks guys, I found some helpfull info on pages 12&13. I actually read it beofre and kind of skipped over it because I did not have a ph or ec meter, but now that I have one on order it becomes more relavent.

Briefly, if I read it right, you want to keep your ph in the 6.3-6.8 range give or take and do not feed untill your ec numbers are lower than 2. And keep detailed notes to find your plant varieties sweet spot.

Did I get this right? scrappy

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Well said, basically its that simple.

The PH & EC numbers seem to be quite flexible, you will still have the challenge of getting the NPK CAL MAG Micronutes balanced but thats also quite flexible.

just make sure that your soil is LOADED with diverse active soil organisms & that there is NO CHLORINE / BLEACH / SALTS anywhere in your garden.

one important thing that ive found monitoring the EC is that with a fresh mix thats amended & or fed, the EC will rise uncontrollably when the locked nutrients become unlocked.

can be hard to know how quickly, for how long & how high the reading will be when the nutes & the soil do there thing.

on one side its easier to control by liquid feeding because it gets processed alot quicker

BUT

you can misjudge & overdo or leave out important things more easily

BUT

when you amend more, your basically stuck with mostly having to sit back & ride out what you put in there.

BUT

your more likely to get a more broad range of everything the pants wants & needs

getting aggressive with amending & feeding at the same time don't "seem" to be optimum.

IMO a equally balanced blend of light amending & light feeding will offer better success.

im not 100% sure how this is going to work for you guys, store bought soils / different homemade mixes combined with other numerous "things not right". Who knows ?

Only one way to find out right ?

 

[FinestKind]

So, I'm wondering about microbes. I had been under the impression that simply by bubbling my teas and waiting for the pH to rise, that I didn't need to add anything in order to introduce microbes, that they were either in the ingredients themselves or came from the air, or what not.

However, I have been noticing lately that the pH hasn't been rising very much... it could have been an old bottle of Grow or something, I don't know. None the less, I'm now doubting whether or not I have an active microbial population or not.

What is the best way to supplement the microbes in my teas? I am using 2 24 gallon rezs now... I know we talked about worm castings and manure... how much of each for 24 gallons? Should I need to do this in order to introduce microbes?

I use straight Pro-Mix with lime and EJ Mycorrhizael innoculant...

Thanks guys.

FK

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

FK - You got this (comes in green container) ?

Earth Juice Rooter's Mycorrhizae

Proprietary blend of 11 mycorrhizal fungi selected for a broad spectrum of plants, media and environments. Harmonizes with the plant's root system and constructs a microbial network that will vastly improve most plants' growth and vigor. For soil and hydroponic applications.
__________________________________________________________________________

Im wondering if that is Endo or Ecto fungi in there ?

There isn't any bacteria which is good to having in your system.

I would make one of those compost cultures like ive been raving on about to add to all teas, etc.

You could & should add the EWC to EVERYTHING.

I just started 4 different cultures to update my Fast Fungi thread. They are visibly growing after 3 days.

* It is strange the PH is not rising - could be lack of air & or lack of microb action.

Im thinking these liquid organic ferts are void of microbs or they would break down & spoil rather quickly ?

 

[FinestKind]

Yeah, Tac, I've got the Rooter's Myco... it's both endo and ecto... and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the competing brands! (1/2 price compared to Plant Success, for example)...

Now, at 3 cups of EWC per 5 gallons of water, and me using 48 gallons of H20 a week, that would be just shy of 29 cups per week! Seems a little expensive... There's got to be a cheaper way, no? Actually, it's not even really about the money, more about buying that much EWC would I think raise some eyebrows... and I don't think my hydro guy sells it. Or does it come in big ass bags?

Is your Fast Fungi thread titled "Fast Fungi"? I'll have to check it out when I've got a little more time. And the compost cultures- is that in this thread? I don't think I've run across that one yet...

FK

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[FinestKind]

Oh no... not 3 cups! 2/3 of a cup... two thirds of a cup... per 5 gallons. So with 48 gallons per week you'd be looking at 6.5 cups per week. They sell EWC in 1 cubic foot bags... which is 120 cups. So one single, small bag would last you over 18 weeks. You'd only need about 3 per YEAR! Not to mention plenty of regular gardeners buy A LOT of this stuff to amend their outdoor vegetable beds. Not weird at all...

Heheh... yeah just reread that, oops... thanks! Think they'll have it at my local Agway?

FK

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Controversial Fast Fungi thread = http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=179374&highlight=FAST+FUNGI

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

I agree - had to move my worm bin into the basement for the winter as i was feeling bad leaving them out in the cold.

The worm bin is a good place to dump the precious runoff to reuse that fertile juice.

 

[RipVanWeed]

I bubble my Tea's in the garage. the temps have been averaging in the low 60's. Seems to take longer for the Ph to rise, but this gives me a better chance at catching the Ph at 6.2, rather than Phing back down with Bloom.

Thinking about getting an aquraium heater to brew at a higher and more constant temp. Maybe 72-75.

Problem there is if I like the temp control, I'll be wanting more heaters because I brew in 3 or 4, 5gal buckets at anyone time.
Veg Tea, Early Flower Tea, and Flower Tea.

Thanks for any thoughts youall wanna throw out there.

Much Respect,

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[FinestKind]

Today I made about 30 gallons of tea, and of course, the pH settled around 3.8 after I added EJ Grow (5mL), Catalyst (5mL), Micro (5mL), Hi-Brix (5mL), SM-90 (2.5 mL) and Hygrozyme (2.5mL). And today I didn't have time to bubble it more than a few hours (they were thirsty). Which raised the pH to an astonishing... 4.0 pH! Ha, so I had to feed and I started adding EJ pH up to raise the pH, obviously. Well, it ended up taking several cap fulls to raise the pH to 5.8. If you own a bottle of dry EJ pH up, then you know those are big ass caps (compared to other 1L nutrient/pH bottles). So after I dump a couple in, a weird white "foam" started swirling on the surface. It wasn't like the EWC foam style, but rather a very flat (non-rising) thick, white swirly foamish substance gathering on the surface. As I added more this intensified, and seemed a bit sinister.

Even though I fed at 5.8 pH, my run off was 7.0-7.3 pH. Which is an improvement over feeding in the 6's and getting run off in the 8's. But, that aside, I'm wondering about the dangers of using too much pH up. Is it harmless? Or is there great caution to be served? I feel like that's the most I've ever used. But then again, I usually mix 5-20 gallons, or the occasional single gallons. But recently started doing 30 gallon batches of tea (32 gallon trash cans, way better than having countless 5g's with a maze of hoses and wal-mart pumps, bleh!) I'm switching to 55 gallon food-grade barrels this week anyways. Picking up a few for some experimental aquaponics, a couple for recycling, and while I'm there a few for brewing teas. Turning these 32 gallon brutes into DWC buckets (muahaha!)

I'm not sure where I read this on here, and there's so much controversy about pH in organics that you can take it or leave it, but someone said that using pH up or down (even the natural kind) can harm your microherd; that it "shocks" them by changing too quickly. It was told as another part of the argument against pH'ing in organics, but I thought it was an interesting tid bit.

FK

 

[Tactical Farmer]

MHM

This cycle I did use a very little bit of down (citric) once a month due to the guys here saying that can be helpful but there are much safer ways to work the PH w/o adding a bunch of adjusters.

Your PH sounds like its pretty high (seems like what lime does to my soil). I brought this up before that when I add lime in any amount it makes it next to impossible to get my PH in the 6's. I could feed PH of 4 over n' over & it comes out 7+. I didn't like it nor did the plants. The first grow that I left out the lime was night & day difference.

I would suggest with your next feeding - do it with little to no bubble time & see if the runoff drops to the 6's, im betting it will still be high in the 7's due to the lime.

Finest Kind is going to need lime as he is in a mostly peat based mix but if your having problems in your garden you might want to look at lime being the monkey in your garden.

 

[Dorje113]

MHM

This cycle I did use a very little bit of down (citric) once a month due to the guys here saying that can be helpful but there are much safer ways to work the PH w/o adding a bunch of adjusters.

Your PH sounds like its pretty high (seems like what lime does to my soil). I brought this up before that when I add lime in any amount it makes it next to impossible to get my PH in the 6's. I could feed PH of 4 over n' over & it comes out 7+. I didn't like it nor did the plants. The first grow that I left out the lime was night & day difference.

I would suggest with your next feeding - do it with little to no bubble time & see if the runoff drops to the 6's, im betting it will still be high in the 7's due to the lime.

Finest Kind is going to need lime as he is in a mostly peat based mix but if your having problems in your garden you might want to look at lime being the monkey in your garden.

How much lime? I use 1 cup of fine dolomite for each section, which is about 150 gal. of soil. New potting mixes don't need lime because lime or some other pH buffer has already been added so unless you reuse your soil or build your own soil you probably do not need lime. IME, a peat based soil with a little lime or other source of calcium carbonate stays at 6.7 no matter what you do to it and most potting mixes are based on this formula.

Most organic nutes will deplete the alkalinity of the soil so lime should be added if you plan on reusing the soil or are mixing your own.

Another issue is the size of your pots, the smaller the pot the faster your soil conditions will change. Larger pots will go out of balance slower and are better for your plants anyway, so grow in the largest containers you possibly can, it's just easier and you'll get better yields.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

113 - I started with 2 TBS per gal, then 1, then 1/2, then 1/4 TBS per gal of dolomite, then dropped lime completely which automatically gave me the PH range I have been fighting for with my compost.

I do deal with cal, mag, iron deficiency around the 2 month mark if its not kept in check with some molasses from time to time.

Your at 16TBS per 150 gal - thats alot less than "the standard rate" which I could agree with.

Thats approx like 1/10 TBS per gal.

You must have me mistaken with someone else - I don't grow in pots, there TUBS lol

I hear ya though, the larger the container does seem to make things easier & more forgiving.

Just throwing out some different ideas to the guys.

Do you agree that generally most people are over liming ?

 

[Scrappy4]

MHM

This cycle I did use a very little bit of down (citric) once a month due to the guys here saying that can be helpful but there are much safer ways to work the PH w/o adding a bunch of adjusters.

Your PH sounds like its pretty high (seems like what lime does to my soil). I brought this up before that when I add lime in any amount it makes it next to impossible to get my PH in the 6's. I could feed PH of 4 over n' over & it comes out 7+. I didn't like it nor did the plants. The first grow that I left out the lime was night & day difference.

I would suggest with your next feeding - do it with little to no bubble time & see if the runoff drops to the 6's, im betting it will still be high in the 7's due to the lime.

Finest Kind is going to need lime as he is in a mostly peat based mix but if your having problems in your garden you might want to look at lime being the monkey in your garden.

I seem to be finding the same thing, although I have been using calcium carbonate lime due to my ignorance of the difference of dolomite and calcitic. I also was surprised to see lime, both dolomite and calcitic, listed as ingredients on the pro mix bag.

Over the course of a month, I was able to lower the ph of my run off, and lower the soil ph from the high 7's to high 6's with continued citric acid waterings in the 5 range. I'm in flower 6 weeks, and I will get a harvest, but at 50%-75% of normal weights, for the second time in a row. The issue seems to be, slow growth and lockout coming at 2 weeks in flower causing leaf yellowing, more so on certain plant varieties. But why have to correct bad numbers while growing, when you can eliminate the problem during the soil mixing.

I have my next soil cooking, (pro mix base)and yes, it has calcium carbonate lime in it. After mixing,wetting with fish (5-1-1) and sitting for a week or so I tested the ph at 7.3. While sitting in a tote in my garage it had grown a nice white fungus on it. Disgusted with the high ph, I decided to throw it out, but before doing so, I Tested it at 6.5ph. So now I'm even more confused..........shredder

 

[Dorje113]

The issue seems to be, slow growth and lockout coming at 2 weeks in flower causing leaf yellowing, more so on certain plant varieties.

Nitrogen Deficiency.... N is available to plants in a pH range between 6-8 so it's not (only) your pH that has issues. N deficiencies 2 weeks into flower is the most common time and you WILL lose yield if you underfeed them at this point. I have found there isn't enough N in EJ grow used at 1 TBS / gal... you either need a LARGE dose of EJ Grow going into flower or you need to give them another source of N. I use Age Old grow, it is pretty hot and will maintain N levels used at 1/2 TBS / gal in my system... smaller pots need more. This is yet another issue a $20 soil test kit would have avoided / solved....


Tac, yes overliming is def. an issue if used at those rates. And yes, people add lime to mixes like ffof which don't require any, and this can be a problem too.

 

[FinestKind]

Hmm... well, maybe I'll give it a go at transplant w/o the lime, for a change.