its hard to be up on this thread. we all have missed or forgotten posts or topics. its long and has a lot of wrong turns and changing story lines.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
- Thread starter high life 45
- Start date
- Status
C
CaliGabe
Well one thing that struck me is the pectinase issue which can create calcium oxalate which is what kidney stones are made of. That makes sense considering what I've seen with some pics/reports where stems become brittle. Will do a bit more research to make sure I understand that correctly.
I have some vague memory of something like when your soil's C:N ratio is out of whack you're almost certain to get nematodes. Could be my brain just getting old.
dude that would be really interesting to see where you read that. was it a plant info source or specifically a cannabis info source.
there is something to be said forthe fact that the og kushes are the prime targets. they are also very magnesium hungry and people fight this with cal and mg.
where the fuck is papaduc this is his realm.
if thats true than blam! i eat my words but i think it isnt the answer because it would be reversable which hasnt yet been seen.
ill set google to search this and see what comes up.
i found this.
Stem nematode-susceptible 'Atlantic' and resistant 'Lahontan' alfalfa seedlings, grown in sand and watered with complete nutrient solutions containing 0.75, 1.5, 3.0, 6.0, or 12.0 mM Ca++/liter, were inoculated with Ditylenchus dipsaci (the stem nematode) 5-6 days after emergence. Approximately equal numbers of nematodes entered the tissues of each variety/Ca++ concentration within 2 days. Penetration was reduced at 12 mM Ca++/liter. Reproduction during 21 days following inoculation yielded 3-fold, or greater, nematode increases in 'Atlantic' buds at all Ca++ concentrations, in 'Atlantic' cotyledons at the four lower concentrations, in 'Lahontan' buds at the lowest concentration and in 'Lahontan' cotyledons at the two lowest concentrations. Reproduction was lower at the higher Ca++ concentrations.
Increased nutrient Ca++ concentrations resulted in increased Ca++ content, decreased Na+ and K+ content, and unchanged Mg++ content of buds and cotyledons. Accordingly, increased nutrient Ca++ resulted in increased divalent/monovalent cation ratios (Ca++ + Mg++/Na+ + K+ ). Resistance to reproduction was correlated more closely with the divalent/monovalent cation ratio than with Ca++ content of tissue, At the four higher nutrient Ca++ concentrations, 'Lahontan' buds had higher ratios than 'Atlantic,' and infected buds had higher ratios than noninfected buds. Although cation balance modifies disease expression, the basic resistance mechanism remains unknown.
Keywords: Ditylenchus dipsaci, Stem nematode, Alfalfa, Medicago sativa, Resistance, Reproduction, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium
Full Text
The Full Text of this article is available as a PDF (562K).
Stem nematode-susceptible 'Atlantic' and resistant 'Lahontan' alfalfa seedlings, grown in sand and watered with complete nutrient solutions containing 0.75, 1.5, 3.0, 6.0, or 12.0 mM Ca++/liter, were inoculated with Ditylenchus dipsaci (the stem nematode) 5-6 days after emergence. Approximately equal numbers of nematodes entered the tissues of each variety/Ca++ concentration within 2 days. Penetration was reduced at 12 mM Ca++/liter. Reproduction during 21 days following inoculation yielded 3-fold, or greater, nematode increases in 'Atlantic' buds at all Ca++ concentrations, in 'Atlantic' cotyledons at the four lower concentrations, in 'Lahontan' buds at the lowest concentration and in 'Lahontan' cotyledons at the two lowest concentrations. Reproduction was lower at the higher Ca++ concentrations.
Increased nutrient Ca++ concentrations resulted in increased Ca++ content, decreased Na+ and K+ content, and unchanged Mg++ content of buds and cotyledons. Accordingly, increased nutrient Ca++ resulted in increased divalent/monovalent cation ratios (Ca++ + Mg++/Na+ + K+ ). Resistance to reproduction was correlated more closely with the divalent/monovalent cation ratio than with Ca++ content of tissue, At the four higher nutrient Ca++ concentrations, 'Lahontan' buds had higher ratios than 'Atlantic,' and infected buds had higher ratios than noninfected buds. Although cation balance modifies disease expression, the basic resistance mechanism remains unknown.
Keywords: Ditylenchus dipsaci, Stem nematode, Alfalfa, Medicago sativa, Resistance, Reproduction, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium
Full Text
The Full Text of this article is available as a PDF (562K).
thats just a straight cut and paste.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2618762/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2618762/
very interesting. sounds like it does come into play. sorry for being a dick about nutrition. it does play a role in reproduction speed according to this. especially with calcium. papaducs favorite nutrition topic.
@xxstr8edgexx the answer on how you can restore a plant back to health is mineral nutrition.
I wish I had a picture of the Chemdog 91 I got from an acquaintance... When i got it from him it had been neglected in a 3" square pot for god knows how long , it didn't have one green leaf on it nor did it have a green pliable stem. It was yellow , mottled small leaves , purple brittle stems...if I posted a picture of it then in this thread you'd all tell me I had a dud for sure!
Guess what I did?
Transplanted it in to .7 ERGS soil that is minerally balanced and foliar sprayed the shit out of it and cloned away from the original plant for 4 generations constantly planting the new generation high energy minerally balanced biologically active soil
Now you wouldn't even recognize the two as the same if you put them side by side...Huge blue green leaves , vigorous pliable growth , green stems , roots in 5 days !!
As much as you may want to ignore it or think it may be something else...the answer is mineral nutrition ...activating enzyme co factors....and keeping those enzyme systems functioning through the life of the plant...
I'll always poopoo studies funded by corporate Ag.....
I wish I had a picture of the Chemdog 91 I got from an acquaintance... When i got it from him it had been neglected in a 3" square pot for god knows how long , it didn't have one green leaf on it nor did it have a green pliable stem. It was yellow , mottled small leaves , purple brittle stems...if I posted a picture of it then in this thread you'd all tell me I had a dud for sure!
Guess what I did?
Transplanted it in to .7 ERGS soil that is minerally balanced and foliar sprayed the shit out of it and cloned away from the original plant for 4 generations constantly planting the new generation high energy minerally balanced biologically active soil
Now you wouldn't even recognize the two as the same if you put them side by side...Huge blue green leaves , vigorous pliable growth , green stems , roots in 5 days !!
As much as you may want to ignore it or think it may be something else...the answer is mineral nutrition ...activating enzyme co factors....and keeping those enzyme systems functioning through the life of the plant...
I'll always poopoo studies funded by corporate Ag.....
BioAct/Melocon for control of plant parasitic nematodes
This product is a biological nematicide for the control of plant parasitic nematodes including Meloidogyne spp. (root-knot nematodes), Radopholus similis (burrowing nematode) and Heterodera spp., Globodera spp. (cyst nematodes) and Pratylenchus spp. (root lesion nematodes).
The activ ingrediant is Paecilomyces lilacinus, strain 251. There are several formulations available to meet the needs of different markets and crop segments.
Paecilomyces lilacinus works by parasitizing nematode eggs and to a lesser extent juveniles and adults and kills them.
G`day BF
Doesn`t mention Dyspatchi ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
BioAct/Melocon for control of plant parasitic nematodes
This product is a biological nematicide for the control of plant parasitic nematodes including Meloidogyne spp. (root-knot nematodes), Radopholus similis (burrowing nematode) and Heterodera spp., Globodera spp. (cyst nematodes) and Pratylenchus spp. (root lesion nematodes).
G`day BF
Doesn`t mention Dispachi ?
"You are like arithmetic : add frustration, subtract enjoyment, divide opinion, multiply dis information .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
doesnt sound like the same thing we are talking about but kudos on the rescue.
almost none of the duds ive seen have yellowed out like that. its a side branching manora formed plant,lacks apical dominance in habit.. branches pull ouyt of socket and also break easily. the internodes get tight and the big leaves dont get big. the buds stack weird and get long pointy tongues that show a neon green or yellow look.
some or all of these will be present at varying degrees along with flowers with greatly reduced scent resin and structural density.
im talking about the duds as described by what the215, storm, greyskull, josey, and unitedgrooves. there have been other descriptions but these are the patterns that im referring to. not deficient yellow or burned plants.
i dont understand how feeding the plant differently is going to remove the todes. your description on that chem91 doesnt sound like a dud to me
BYFs method of fighting pests is to have plants so perfectly balanced and fed with all proper mineral nutrition that they are able to brush pests off like it's nothing, and also his plants don't attract pests in the first place. Apparently, when everything is perfect, the sugars that make up the plants sap become more complex... so complex that pests aren't interested in them.
I think that's the rational behind his methods. He referred to regular plants with simple sugars as 'homing beacons' for pests.
Please correct me if I'm wrong BYF. If I'm off could you offer a better, simply worded explanation?
I think that's the rational behind his methods. He referred to regular plants with simple sugars as 'homing beacons' for pests.
Please correct me if I'm wrong BYF. If I'm off could you offer a better, simply worded explanation?
That's the gist of it.
im familiar with the theory. its solid.its actually beyond a theory,its true. i just dont think it can lead to absolute immunity and its not a cure all. it helps. it lends resistance. it adds tolerance to stress and damage.i agree it can be profound. i dont think it can rid a plant of anything absolutely in every instance. healthy plants are only as resistant as the plant next to it isnt. in other words the healthiest plants may be the least tasty but the the tastiest plant get munched. so if a bunch of really healthy plants get exposed, the todes arent going to starv just because the you fed the plants well.your least resistant strain will get the infestation. once infested you will shock the fuck out of me if you can get cured through proper mineral nutrition. i wish this could be hand to byf for his ability to prove it. until then its just a bunch of posturing around an unknown and a plant nutrition dogma.
ok i take one part back. i do think in some certain diseases properly healthy plants are just unlikely to succumb and the disease indicates poor plant health. but not with every disease or pest.
yes check whatther215 video of the stem nematodes in action.
josy knows someone who submitted a sample of soudub that cameback d. dipsaci.
byf says hes doubtful until the result is posted. no other lab test has submitted the lower stem that i know of and none have come back positive for dipsaci yet.
whatthe215 says it is very difficult to find these outside of the lowerstem of critically ill plants.
But if the plants are healthy with the proper amount of Ca in the tissue etc., could the even get to the point of infestation in the first place? when I hear the word infested I think like, mites spinning webs from one level of a plant to another and having mite superhighways....
My theory is that no, a properly healthy plant can't get infested..maybe infected...Plants are interesting , there are many things about them we have no idea about..we are just now starting to understand as growers what's what...
My theory is that no, a properly healthy plant can't get infested..maybe infected...Plants are interesting , there are many things about them we have no idea about..we are just now starting to understand as growers what's what...
Here is url to label info. Look at page 2 -
www.certisusa.com/pdf-labels/MeloCon_Label.pdf
Does not say it is 100% cure, but mentions DD and many crops, certified as organic.
www.certisusa.com/pdf-labels/MeloCon_Label.pdf
Does not say it is 100% cure, but mentions DD and many crops, certified as organic.
- Status
