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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

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Mikenite69

Mikenite69

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thats them!!!!!!

thats them!!!!!!

xxxstr8edgexxx said:
hey mikenite69 were they these? some soil mite i found i a potato slice test looking for root aphids a long time ago. i freaked thought they may have been bulb mites i still dont know for sure.View Image View Image
Click to expand...

Those are the little bastards that are in my roots block coco. I looked all over to figure out what the hell those things are and couldn't find a thing. I hit them with azamax they laughed at it I even torched the bastards still did nothing mosquito dunks and insecticidal soap was the only thing to kill them....


Thanks for those pictures because I was left in the dark and had no idea what the hell those things were. When I noticed them crawling onto my leaves is when I went nucluer to kill off the bastards.
 
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redlaser

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It's unlikely that their is only one cause for many different individuals plant issues. You have to factor in the cultural practices, environment etc.
 
Grizz

Grizz

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Seaf0ur said:
I haven't been following along to be honest... but does the above fit the description of the damage? If so, it is certainly stem nematodes.... however the above damage does not seem to be the damage shown in these "duds".... I've yet to see black stems with white leaves devoid of chlorophyll....

not tryin to be the turd in the punchbowl... but only a small portion of the damage seems to fit the scapegoat pest....
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I have been thinking the same thing , but there talking about alfalfa so what they do to maj may be different.
what I want now is the cure, what do I flush my soil with one time that will PREVENT duds forever??
 
whadeezlrg

whadeezlrg

Just Say Grow
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no one is making claims that this is the ONLY cause of dudding. literally no one has said this is the only cause, it may or may not be a considerable factor in this whole dilemma. what I've read is that the nematodes are basically opening up the plant to many different pathogens and diseases which show in the plant as dudding, solutions can only truly be found once the root of the issue is established and understood...nematodes are still a hypothesis in my opinion, it's a very good point to expand from and further research is definitely needed before anything can truly be confirmed...the way this whole thread has worked is jumping to immediate conclusions, never will this be a successful approach to finding solutions in any facet. environmental factors have been discussed, triggers haven't been established, there is a such a wide margin of variation from garden to garden involved that it's very tough to make determinations. environmental triggers are further disproved by the small percentage of affected plants in a given cycle that have no environmental variables from propagation through completion to their healthy, vigorous, sibling plants cut from the same mother, rooted in the same cloner,tray etc. my point being environmental issues show up on more than one plant, aren't passed from generation to generation, and can be easily identified and solved.
 
Grizz

Grizz

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whadeezlrg said:
no one is making claims that this is the ONLY cause of dudding. literally no one has said this is the only cause, it may or may not be a considerable factor in this whole dilemma. what I've read is that the nematodes are basically opening up the plant to many different pathogens and diseases which show in the plant as dudding, solutions can only truly be found once the root of the issue is established and understood...nematodes are still a hypothesis in my opinion, it's a very good point to expand from and further research is definitely needed before anything can truly be confirmed...the way this whole thread has worked is jumping to immediate conclusions, never will this be a successful approach to finding solutions in any facet. environmental factors have been discussed, triggers haven't been established, there is a such a wide margin of variation from garden to garden involved that it's very tough to make determinations. environmental triggers are further disproved by the small percentage of affected plants in a given cycle that have no environmental variables from propagation through completion to their healthy, vigorous, sibling plants cut from the same mother, rooted in the same cloner,tray etc. my point being environmental issues show up on more than one plant, aren't passed from generation to generation, and can be easily identified and solved.
Click to expand...
excellent post and as you all know I still am in doubt as the todes being the cause for the sour dub , gg4 dud issue, I still cant believe that they would only attac one individual strain in a garden with multi strains growing.
 
Seaf0ur

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
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It has always been my contention that not all cuts are created equal.
I only take clones from the strongest, most vigorous portions of a plant.
As supporting evidence, I submit my friend PakaloloFromPNW's experiment.
He has taken very specific cuts from sections of a plant with a natural color variegation.

These are clones from the exact same mother:

gallery_726300_5163_307689.jpg

gallery_726300_5163_394692.jpg


The daughter of the variegated plant.

gallery_726300_5163_51619.jpg


This has been selected over generations... while its supposed exact genetic sister has all green, completely normal looking clones to this day..... he is now selecting red patches that have appeared... I look forward to how it plays out. This is no virus. there are no negative effects whatsoever.... fast forward a few generations of selective cuts...

gallery_726300_5163_407703.jpg

gallery_726300_5163_116185.jpg



My point of this is, not all cuts from the same mother are equal.... which would explain to a certain degree "genetic drift"... it could also explain 2 cuts acting completely differently.

in addition, I've stressed a glue into a full on 5 petal'd male flower... I've heard of a few other cases of this.... plus joesy has a "male" from what in all accounts should be feminized seed being a herm was the pollen donor....
This points to some mutation in the very genetic itself... possibly inherited from the sour dubb.... perhaps "weaker" cuts are not just a little... but extremely susceptible to diseases or stresses....

Just an off the cuff line of thought to be considered further I reckon....
 
1

10ftGanja

Member
I was gonna post this in the gg4 thread until JW stepped in and asked people to move the discussion here... But OMG neem oil? Seriously? Like everybody who has duds wasn't already using neem oil, spinosad and the kitchen sink(literally - hot water)???
 
RetroGrow

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Storm Shadow said:
Broad Mites do not cause DUDs...by your own admission...you've never had BM or Stem Nematodes...

I was wrong about Phytoplasma... I made that quite clear..... but guess what I wasn't wrong about :)
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That's a lie, and you know it. BMs and cyclamens most certainly do cause duds. Do you really want me to start pulling up posts where you said BMs were causing duds?
You're ego is so vast, you are trying to make the thread about you, as usual. If I had those nematodes, I would have busted them in a day or two just by scoping, as I have learned from the BM fiasco that a microscope is not optional, it's mandatory and would be the first thing I used to check the problem. But you were sure it was phytoplasmas and were spamming about that relentlessly, only to find out you were wrong. It took you half a year or more to finally scope your duds to find out what they were. To say that is the only cause of duds is arrogant. We have already identified multiple causes of duds, and some still remain a mystery. Joesy's plants don't have nematodes to my knowledge, or he would be able to see them with a scope. So that's a mystery type of dudding that no one has figured out yet. Stop trying to be a hero, and look at the big picture.
 
Grizz

Grizz

Active member
Veteran
Seaf0ur said:
It has always been my contention that not all cuts are created equal.
I only take clones from the strongest, most vigorous portions of a plant.
As supporting evidence, I submit my friend PakaloloFromPNW's experiment.
He has taken very specific cuts from sections of a plant with a natural color variegation.

These are clones from the exact same mother:

View Image
View Image

The daughter of the variegated plant.

View Image

This has been selected over generations... while its supposed exact genetic sister has all green, completely normal looking clones to this day..... he is now selecting red patches that have appeared... I look forward to how it plays out. This is no virus. there are no negative effects whatsoever.... fast forward a few generations of selective cuts...

View Image
View Image


My point of this is, not all cuts from the same mother are equal.... which would explain to a certain degree "genetic drift"... it could also explain 2 cuts acting completely differently.

in addition, I've stressed a glue into a full on 5 petal'd male flower... I've heard of a few other cases of this.... plus joesy has a "male" from what in all accounts should be feminized seed being a herm was the pollen donor....
This points to some mutation in the very genetic itself... possibly inherited from the sour dubb.... perhaps "weaker" cuts are not just a little... but extremely susceptible to diseases or stresses....

Just an off the cuff line of thought to be considered further I reckon....
Click to expand...

still doesent explain why just the sour dub blood lines do it in my garden. I always take the strongest cuts I can and if they are runts after rooting they get thrown, theres way more to this than just cut selection or todes,
 
RetroGrow

RetroGrow

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Grizz

Grizz

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Storm Shadow said:
I'm the one saying 10000000000% Stem Nematodes...

At this point...the Torched has been passed... Get Over It
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I have to ask cause you did say that it was BM's for a long time, I never agreed that it was because I never had them, now your a 1000000% sure its the todes, not saying it isent but there is still to many variables for me to think its the 1000000% cause
 
Storm Shadow

Storm Shadow

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Stem Nematodes....1000000000000000%

Im not trusting anyones skills over my own on this...sorry...

Who was going around and telling everyone their GG#4 was tainted???
 
M

marrdogg

Member
Veteran
You know what the crazy thing is as I take a back seat is I have never had GG duds. And between me and JW I don't anybody on this entire thread has more dealings with this plant than us period. I have never had one dud on me, I do think it's some type of pathogen and I do know that it did not personally come from JW's.garden. People gotta inspect and keep clean my thoughts.PEACE!
 
M

marrdogg

Member
Veteran
You know me and JW sat comfortably with plant for almost 2 years before ANYONE was even given a cut. We never experienced issues, but the moment it passed people came up with issues. That's plain as day whatever is going on this is.not the garden it's in. PEACE!
 
R

redlaser

Active member
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whadeezlrg- I was referring to Storm's last line in the quote below." Nothing else " seems to imply that's the only problem to deal with.
Storm Shadow said:
reading other peoples problems and thinking you can diagnosis them without exp it yourself or being on the frontline in the trenches....doesn't make sense on any level...

as is the case with Broad Mites and Stem Nematodes....

The thread should move in the direction of killing stem nematodes...and nothing else

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Kill-Stem-Nematode-and-Root-knot_1100726822.html
Click to expand...
 
RetroGrow

RetroGrow

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Storm Shadow said:
Get Over It
Click to expand...

Get over yourself. We already know that there are multiple causes of dudding. You are fond of bragging about your growing skills, and yet, you come up with every pathogen known to man, so it seems that your skills at avoiding those pathogens and keeping your environment clean are way below average. You also continue to purchase infected cuts from a dealer who is known as the pathogen king. This defies all logic. And you continue to dump all manner of toxins on your plants. Who are you selling these duds to? I know I would never smoke any herb that you grew, because you don't care about the health of your customers. You proved that in the broad mite thread, where you attacked anyone who came up with alternative methods of killing them without resorting to dangerous miticides.
 
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