nevermind. pisser.
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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
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Call them. They are "cannabis friendly". It sounds like something you download and include in the shipment, certifying it as material for testing, rather than you just mailing herb, which would be illegal under federal law.
Frank, you are working under the assumption that this phenomena (for want of a better term) only affects Sour Dubb and it's crosses. However, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that other strains/lines are affected also. It would be helpful if a significant number of people with Sour Dubb and crosses (GG4) would send samples of both "dudded" and "non-dudded" material, so that particular issue can be resolved. This should not exclude others who are having the same or similar issues with other strains, whether or not these issues are identical. Once we get a significant amount of data, it might be sorted out more easily.
It says "our" as in their permit, so they must be permitted to collect samples. I am going to have to contact them and see if they offer bulk rates there are so many funky gardens near me that I am curious about, as well as my GG cut..
Please folks lets get samples sent to http://www.allcropsolutions.com/ The more different sources the better, If we cant answer all the questions I bet we will answer many.
One of the first things to ask them is about "BM toxin", what is it? Someone must have an idea?
Also we can find out which of the Viruses they test for, which bacterial and fungal pathogens they test for, as well as pests they can ID, I posted a list of all the Cannabis viruses I know of in post #23 in this thread. If they are good at it we should get them to expand their searches to include any/all pathogens that effect Cannabis, they sound ready.
I think this is the only way to get to the bottom of all this and understand what is going on, be it one problem or several as I suspect.
-SamS
One of the first things to ask them is about "BM toxin", what is it? Someone must have an idea?
Also we can find out which of the Viruses they test for, which bacterial and fungal pathogens they test for, as well as pests they can ID, I posted a list of all the Cannabis viruses I know of in post #23 in this thread. If they are good at it we should get them to expand their searches to include any/all pathogens that effect Cannabis, they sound ready.
I think this is the only way to get to the bottom of all this and understand what is going on, be it one problem or several as I suspect.
-SamS
I've read everything there is to read about broad mites, from many different agricultural universities. All say the same thing: it is a toxin or plant growth regulator, neither of which is named. It's very odd, but there were experiments to see if BMs could transmit viruses, and they were unable to do so. I doubt if these guys will have an explanation, but can't hurt to ask.
Does the duding have similar traits to "BM toxin"? Ive had BM's and the associated "toxin" but have not had any "duds" like described in this thread.
The pictures of duds seems to have a similarity to "BM toxin"
Perhaps the BM toxin is viral, and can flare up in immunocompromised situations after the BM's have been eradicated, kinda like herpes?
Glad more folks are sending stuff to labs and sharing their results, thanks!
The pictures of duds seems to have a similarity to "BM toxin"
Perhaps the BM toxin is viral, and can flare up in immunocompromised situations after the BM's have been eradicated, kinda like herpes?
Glad more folks are sending stuff to labs and sharing their results, thanks!
No. I'm not at all.
I'm looking at this logically...rather than guessing and stating any under-performing plant is a "dud".
There are people calling EVERYTHING a dud that just isn't a "keeper"...the whole thing has gotten out of control.
Like I said before...YOU ALWAYS - when possible, want to get your FIRST set data points from ground zero - and then try to map out how it spread from there...
I understand what ever it is seems to pass to other plants - but at that point, it's purely conjecture as to what / IF it is the same issue. It's anecdotal...
In order to really get to the heart of the issue - it needs to be Sour Dubb - ground zero - that ALL this stuff is evaluated from - FIRST.
That's just my personal opinion. No one has to agree with it.
dank.Frank
I suspect we'll see MANY different problems when coming in from gardens all over off many different plants as well.
I think it will help those having issues - but it will do very little to pinpoint the EXACT cause of what the original context of this thread was - "dudd" phenomena, in relation to Sour Dubb and her direct descendents:
Adubb
Odubb
DT7
GG#4
My whole point is I don't want to state "dudds" are caused by __________ - if in fact it is NOT the SAME issue. It just muddies things.
It's why I stand by the starting at ground zero rationale.
dank.Frank
I really have to agree Frank, some of the dud pic's of other strains don't compare to what the sour dub did , there really wasent a simi dud, it was either a full blown dud or a good plant, I did have good plants with one dud branch though.
on another note I have my first dud in quite some time and whats weird is its a head band x gg4, will get pics later and post them.
on another note I have my first dud in quite some time and whats weird is its a head band x gg4, will get pics later and post them.
This dudding does seem very similar if not identical to the residual BM toxin dudding. It's incredibly annoying how there is zero information on the BM toxin.
I agree Frank, it would be ideal to start at ground zero with sour dubb and her first few crosses.
Did it start with greyskull or did it start with Shan when he first got broad mites?
I agree Frank, it would be ideal to start at ground zero with sour dubb and her first few crosses.
Did it start with greyskull or did it start with Shan when he first got broad mites?
I saw Jeff Spicoli and myself get DUDs b4 Sour Dub.... Mine was Diablo OG and his was an OG Kush also
You got a dud in a room with no duds in a seed plant?
i also saw dudds pre sour dubb on some hindu skunks that came outta pomona, this was like 07-08, not sure if it actually predates the dub but the source wasn't even close to the same circle of san diego dudds
Please send in for testing. This is the only way we will get to the bottom of this.
Frank,
There are two distinct types of duds identified so far: one is caused by broad mites. If you ever had them, you know what I am talking about. I understand that you are focusing on the Sour Dubb "dudding". What makes you so certain that the cause of the SourDubb dudding cannot also effect other strains? Since we don't even know what that is, how can we know that it is specific to only one strain, especially in light of anecdotal evidence to the contrary? Are all these other people just making this stuff up? I don't think so.
We need lot's more testing for sure. So far, not too many folks are sending samples in for testing. Without the cooperation of the "community", we're lost.
Even scientists don't know what the broad mite "toxin" is, or even if it's a toxin, or a growth regulator, or something else. This is their assumption in the absence any proof that BMs can transmit viruses. In fact, all testing done so far confirms that BMs are NOT capable of transmitting viruses, at least the ones they tested for. I am going to try to contact, via email/phone, some botanists working for state agricultural universities in my state. I am hoping that others might attempt the same in California. The two states with the highest broad/cyclamen mite populations are Florida & California, because of their tropical/sub-tropical climate, which makes them home to citrus and other tropical fruits like mangoes and papayas, etc, the favorite foods of these pests.
I don't doubt this at all. OGs are known carriers of TMV. This is proven already. So, in light of that, suppose that plants carrying TMV, but not showing any symptoms that are affecting the final product, are subjected to other stresses in the form of other pathogens/pests/heat/over feeding, etc., that are weakening the plants immune system, allowing the TMV to explode with disastrous effects. So instead of growing out of the TMV as usual, the plants are overwhelmed by it, and symptoms not normally seen are manifesting themselves. Or it could be the other way 'round. Plants fighting off TMV successfully, are then hit with another pathogen that ordinarily would be fought off, but because that plant is already dealing with TMV, it cannot fight off multiple attacks.
I believe that the effects of pathogens can be mitigated or warded off entirely by using aspirin, or salicylic acid, along with humic & fulvic acids, all three of which boost the plant's immune response.
I will never again grow without aspirin in my rez, and I always use additives that contain humic & fulvic acids. Florilicious and Florilicious Plus are two examples of this. There are of course, many more, and some base nutrients have one or both of them.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies here, IMO.
yes, first one I have had in over 2 yrs. it was a cut off a seed plant I ran, it preformed perfect the first run then it duded this cut run, I was pretty sure it was a dud in veg but dident want to believe it,
if someone will get it tested I will gladly send whatever parts you need before I kill it.
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