Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[EclipseFour20]

Sorry to be like a "debbie downer", but let's say it came from fungus gnats...then why is it most people with FG issues do not have duds?

Ditto if we are talking/blaming Broad Mites--why is that most people that had BMS do not have duds?

Geographically, where are the incidences of dud plants occurring? Are there clusters in certain parts of a specific region...and not others? (ie, Colorado only--but not in Washington, USA/Canada only...but not Europe?)

Like I said earlier, I don't have them--but I have had a few great strains/phenotypes...that for unknown reasons became "tired" and all her offspring (clones) were 100% fussy pussies with diminished quality/quantity. Lost a great super sativa (my original LSD-69) that way--and yes, it was about a 18 months ago when my Broad Mite infestation caught me off guard.

 

[30years]

I've seen a lot of plants do this over the last few years. broad mites sounds like a good catch all for this as it covers every "i have no idea what the problem is" but I've had to deal with broad mites on a large level in both production and in clone operations and this is not that. send the leaf out for fungal analysis. it will take about a week to grow the problem out. fungal problems everywhere these days... don't over look.
spreads easily, can't be seen from naked eye. some plants do ok, some don't. hmmm. if your in cali odds are you have a fungal friend chilling in your garden. i send off samples to the lab all the time for analysis. fusarium running rampant here both in and out. aact as a foliar and trichoderma in the root zone if you want to organically fight it.

 

[FatherEarth]

I dont get why so many ppl proclaim the BM's to be equivalent to a swarm of locusts or being smited by God..lol sMited. No way could it be that bad. I'm tempted to try and catch this shit just to show how to rid yourself of them...while I'm at it I'll pick up a couple 'duds' to revitalize. I'm out to find these bugs...who's got my heady broad mites? Anyone into doing regular IPM or nutrient dense farming for superior plant health? I'm going to write up a 'free clinic' for broad mites thread....

Who's got original bm microscopy photos?


PF adjust the distance of your light source from your aperture then dim the light a bit..really a stereoscope would be best for these sort of pics. I attach an extra light to the scope for better lighting of subjects that aren't transparent or on a slide..


FE

 

[Backyard Farmer]

If you want a Trichoderma product ,

Root Shield / Plant Shield are pretty good.

Started seeing this problem over 5 years ago in out door gardens , 1/3 of the plant just fucking up....It is a root disease you guys are experiencing indoors...it isn't genetic , permanent , or impossible to kill ... You just need to do it properly ...and attack the actual problem...

That is why I say there's no such thing as a dud plant only a dud grower...

It's just what it is...

I am going to also experiment with Chitosan Oligosaccharide because I'm not above trying what a grower I respect recommends to me...Calcium Phosphite sounds horrible. Phosphites are whack...any type of synthesized fertilizer is banned from my farm. Yep. Banned.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i wasn't trying to say that it's broaod mites causing the duding, just that if broad mites can spread via white fly then possibly other problems can get transferred the same or some similar way?

 

[whatthe215]

Sorry to be like a "debbie downer", but let's say it came from fungus gnats...then why is it most people with FG issues do not have duds?

It didn't come from gnats, I just think it can be spread by them if ya got em.

If you don't have the 'dud pathogen' then the fungus gnats have nothing to spread.

 

[RetroGrow]

so apart from yield and lack of smell and trichomes, lol, how is the taste and smell? also shit? basically is there anyway you can be growing duds without realizing it? say a really super potent strain is just a normal quality strain when a dd, or will it be a shit quality?

as for the spreading, did you see that pic that could have come from a horror movie with the broadmites crawling all over the legs and other appendages of the white fly? i imagine it works something like that?

Yes, it is possible to have "dud" plants without knowing it, at least the type duds caused by broad mites. I had AK47 that looked fine, but had no smell @ the finish, although it had a strong smell before the mites took over. Also no taste or potency. Looked good, but totally worthless.
Now that is broad mite duds.
What people are talking about here is something different, IMO. There's no law that says duds can only be caused by BMs. Yes, BMs cause duds, but there can be other causes too. What I am taking from the pictures posted here, the duds you guys are talking about seem like fusarium, NOT BMs. If it were BMs, it's easy enough to spot them once you know what to look for. Scope under the leaves and you will see the eggs. If there are no eggs under the affected leaves, it's not BM toxins causing the problem. Simple as that. So get out your 100X scopes, and look under leaves for eggs.
About the BM toxins: there is no mention of what exactly they are, because there is no mention of this in any of the literature I have been able to find on BMs. Even Sam was puzzled by this, and he is the pest expert.
For those insisting that it can only be BMs, I think you need to step back and consider that there are other possibilities.

 

[whatthe215]

For those insisting that it can only be BMs, I think you need to step back and consider that there are other possibilities.

Maybe we should consider this the thread to talk about NON Broad Mite triggered duds.

 

[RetroGrow]

i wasn't trying to say that it's broaod mites causing the duding, just that if broad mites can spread via white fly then possibly other problems can get transferred the same or some similar way?

What you are describing is called "phoresis", or one type pest (insect or arachnid) traveling by means of latching on to another, and yes, pathogens can be spread that way quite readily.
This "dudding" doesn't look like BMs, as none of the photos show the twisted leaves typical of BM infestation.
I still say it's fusarium, from the pictures some have posted. Of course, it could be multiple issues, with different causes.

 

[Hammerhead]

I dont get why so many ppl proclaim the BM's to be equivalent to a swarm of locusts or being smited by God..lol sMited. No way could it be that bad. I'm tempted to try and catch this shit just to show how to rid yourself of them...while I'm at it I'll pick up a couple 'duds' to revitalize. I'm out to find these bugs...who's got my heady broad mites? Anyone into doing regular IPM or nutrient dense farming for superior plant health? I'm going to write up a 'free clinic' for broad mites thread....

Who's got original bm microscopy photos?


PF adjust the distance of your light source from your aperture then dim the light a bit..really a stereoscope would be best for these sort of pics. I attach an extra light to the scope for better lighting of subjects that aren't transparent or on a slide..


FE

I have one Amscope-8WD. I was in a rush. I just did it as a favor. lol it is that one
http://www.amscope.com/led-6w.html

 

[cyat]

How? Is it like TMV (human/plant contact)...or like PM (combination of plant health and environment)...or like Phytophthora root rot (usually caused by infected soil)...or like pathogens (fungal, bacteria, etc).....or like _________________?

Any idea "how it spreads"?

2 kinds of dudding goin on. one from a root disease, and one from broadmites... i have had both, they are different..

 

[mojave green]

2 kinds of dudding goin on. one from a root disease, and one from broadmites...

i concur

 

[grow nerd]

Pretty sure the dudding I've personally death with is from root disease.

 

[DIDM]

it's most definitely contagious. i think gnats and other flying root zone pests move it from plant to plant.

like the amateur i am, i treated but didn't quarantine my GG4s from the cup. it spread to a bunch of White Fire cuts, 25% of em are duds now. other strains in the same room haven't been affected despite a (un)healthy gnat population. i'm guessing certain strains are more susceptible.

now that i've taken my samples for the laboratory, i culled a shit ton of plants and i'm treating with every biological fungicide control i can find.

i'm starting with the products Backyard Farmer mentioned. MycoStop WP and PreStop from Verdera.

Obsoul33t is trying calcium phosphites on the crown of the sick plants at the recommendation of an agricultural professional.

errrrrrrm, hate to break it to ya

bilogicals, are like pissing on a forest fire

if you really want that strain, and don't want to throw it all away and start fresh, you need the nar shit

lets put it this way, the things that cause what you all consider duds have been getting hit with things for ages now,and have become resistant to them,you need a schedule of many many different things

if you were not aware all fungicides are from different classes/categories, you need to use different ones, for example spray a, then b,then c,then repeat, or they will work for a bit then no more, the funky becomes immune to it

read the labels, they should tell you teh class they fit into, if not google the MSDS of said products

fusarium was weaponized by the USA gov to combat coca, now it is used on pot here, and it is unknowingly passed with clones on the daily

Here is stuff from 2000 talking about using it in South America
David Sands is doing the research
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.drugs/bAvwfKcj1GU[1-25-false]

I actually know this guys kid, his dad is a brilliant chemist, and helped give us these fucking things we call duds. BM may be a portion of them, but if you test your duds you will find fusarium and/or verticillim

 

[gaiusmarius]

i recently ordered a microscope/endoscope specially for mac and the damn thing doesn't work with mac after all. only 20 dollars so hardly worth sending back to hong kong lol. but i really need a microscope that works for mac osx. not that i have any pests at present, but those things take great trichome pics too and are great for pests too of course. thankfully so far i have not seen or heard of broad mites amongst the local growers. probably because the clone market is very limited, everyone grows power plant. but yeah, one has to read up on this stuff so one isn't clueless if it shows up.

in the end the op didnt specify to only discuss duding caused by other then bm toxins. dud is dud.

oh yeah maybe the leaves are not all curled like with bm's cause the bm's are dead and only a bit of toxin is left causing the duding? maybe?

 

[gaiusmarius]

errrrrrrm, hate to break it to ya

bilogicals, are like pissing on a forest fire

if you really want that strain, and don't want to throw it all away and start fresh, you need the nar shit

lets put it this way, the things that cause what you all consider duds have been getting hit with things for ages now,and have become resistant to them,you need a schedule of many many different things

if you were not aware all fungicides are from different classes/categories, you need to use different ones, for example spray a, then b,then c,then repeat, or they will work for a bit then no more, the funky becomes immune to it

read the labels, they should tell you teh class they fit into, if not google the MSDS of said products

fusarium was weaponized by the USA gov to combat coca, now it is used on pot here, and it is unknowingly passed with clones on the daily

Here is stuff from 2000 talking about using it in South America
David Sands is doing the research
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.drugs/bAvwfKcj1GU[1-25-false]

I actually know this guys kid, his dad is a brilliant chemist, and helped give us these fucking things we call duds. BM may be a portion of them, but if you test your duds you will find fusarium and/or verticillim

very interesting, another one saying fusarium.

 

[whatthe215]

^^^ i will use lots of piss LOL. i've got rooms that need to flip so ill go all biological for now.

but i've got no issues using the heavy stuff when the time comes. i've got two different classes of hardcore fungicide on their way to start using on moms.

more than likely ill just end up killing everything and starting over, but it's hard with multiple rooms and bills to pay. gotta time it all out. flip all rooms, harvest and then go nuclear warfare on the spot while trimmers process.

i'm gonna start treating the important moms so i can clone em, sterilize the cuts and throw away all used and unused medium. same shit i had to do to rid myself of aphids.

no half measures is the motto.

 

[RetroGrow]

I believe the U.S. government has in the past made weaponized pathogens to destroy crops, as DIDM alluded to, and I believe the DEA would stop at nothing to harm growers and continue their "war on drugs" as long as possible, no matter how much lying they have to do, no matter how many innocent people they hurt. The DEA is a criminal gang, IMO, and needs to be disbanded. I would not put anything past them.

 

[gaiusmarius]

I believe the U.S. government has in the past made weaponized pathogens to destroy crops, as DIDM alluded to, and I believe the DEA would stop at nothing to harm growers and continue their "war on drugs" as long as possible, no matter how much lying they have to do, no matter how many innocent people they hurt. The DEA is a criminal gang, IMO, and needs to be disbanded. I would not put anything past them.

quoted for truth!

i also wouldn't put it past some fuckers in the dea either to spread something like this if they have the chance, maybe it wasn't even officially sanctioned? it's possible imo...

 

[mojave green]

ha-ha-ha! although i too do not put it past the gubmit to poison our crops as i remember them sprayin some nasty shit on the weed in south america back in the day...they do not need our help on this one. we be doin this shit to ourselves. don't go blamin the boogeyman for this one!