Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[EclipseFour20]

I don't have this dud problem (phew) but I have given it some thought.

Assuming the following--
1. Dud characteristics are passed to successive generations (both seed and clone).
2. No known cultivator issues--proper environment, air flow, etc.
3. No known grow medium issues--proper pH, air/water porosity, etc
4. No known nutrition/fertility issues--inputs are of good quality and dosage amounts are in the appropriate range.

Then the source/cause might be:
1. Contagion--air borne, physical contact, contamination, etc
2. Genetic--recessive trait that is now dominate and is passed to all successive generations.
3. Mutation--trait was caused by unknown factors and is now part of the plant's genetic makeup.
4. Pesticide poisoning--trait was caused by excessive use of pesticides with long half-life, increased plant tissue residual, incompatible active ingredients, etc.
5. _______________

The investigative/analytical side of me asks, "how can I infect a healthy plant?" If that is known, then selecting which plan(s) of action will usually become obvious...or at the very least, point you in the right direction.

Assuming that it is genetic (not contagious or due to issues with environment, cultivator, plant health, etc) then cull and move on is the obvious solution.

Assuming that is is contagion (infectious by unknown source/carrier), then data needs to be collected and analyzed (a task that only those with duds can do).

IMHO, there usually is a common denominator or common thread/issue/source that is waiting to be discovered...that is key to solving problems like this.

Good luck!

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Trainwreck is awesome if you have the real deal cut, but more often than not its an S1 or fake.

The cut that I have produces huge plants and is extremely vigorous.

Growers who think that "duds" are real...are "duds"...

 

[grow nerd]

I'm definitely a dud.

Any of you fellow duds know what I'm talking about? I don't doubt for one second that it's a S1 or a fake, though. Or a dud cut.

Backyard Farmer, I know you mean more than what you say, but your logic seems flawed IMO.

 

[gaiusmarius]

I appreciate what PO has done for the game.

Keeping lazy growers and people who want something for nothing down deserves a donation from all serious growers who are about their shit!

Trainwreck is awesome if you have the real deal cut, but more often than not its an S1 or fake.

The cut that I have produces huge plants and is extremely vigorous.

Growers who think that "duds" are real...are "duds"...

hm, are you saying that all the dud plants people have experienced are in fact grower error? if the people that believe in the phenomenon of dud plants are duds, then they are wrong, so does that mean there is no such thing as a sickness/infection/contamination called duding? i don't know seems a funny line to take considering all the evidence posted in this thread alone. i have no idea what exactly is happening that causes known strains to make hay, but it is worrying enough that i'm paying attention and for sure not just gonna dismiss the hands on experience of all the growers that have dealt with this issue.

 

[high life 45]

GN I have grown plenty of t-wreck, its lanky and viney, but not a dud. Perhaps your friends have a duded cut going around. I wouldn't be suprised.

I appreciate what PO has done for the game.

Keeping lazy growers and people who want something for nothing down deserves a donation from all serious growers who are about their shit!

How impressive BF, if this is truly how you feel, you should change your avatar to a fake rasta weasel, and location to Jersey Shore state of mind....LOL


What about the medical patients who arent the most educated growers who are trying to provide for themselves? Do you think any of the patrons of progressive options have medical conditions that might benefit from cannabis. I know that their are plenty of cash croppers, but its not a game for everyone, this is actually medicine for some, believe it or not.
You appreciate that they should totally get screwed by bugs they cant see?

Id rather help one patient than screw 100 cash croppers.

To hand out infected plants is disrespectful to the plant itself. Personally I have great respect for the plant, and would never want anyone to intentionally get bad cuts.
This plant teaches, heals and feeds people.

Growers who think that "duds" are real...are "duds"...

Honestly in your opinion, what do you call this growth then?

Josey wales and greyskull have had sour dub "dud" on them, do really you think they are duds?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

HL45 - I do feel that way.

I think any one who knowingly will go somewhere like PO just to obtain an elite cut because they want it with out doing the due diligence to not infect their garden deserves what they get and growers like that should get taken out of the game.

I HIGHLY doubt that grandpa and grandma smith are depending on places like PO for their starts/meds...

Regarding the growth you're seeing on the gg4 , pretty interesting but how come the gorilla glue I have and have spread to numerous growers has never done anything but be vigorous and robust? I'm not saying that I'm special,but wondering if this is something genetic etc., why isn't every grower experiencing it...

I just think that it is crazy to say well the sour dub is a dud, too so it must be genetic...because JackMayOffer and a few other cats have the sour dub and it's definitely not sour dud...

It just seems like people the cart before the horse and want the results they see online on their first run or before their first run is even done...

The cuts from the cup apparently came from reverted material...

A great example would be recently I got the skunk va chem 91 , it came to me looking EXACTLY like what you guys are calling dud growth! Small leaves, fucked up internode spacing brittle stem etc., but I know it's not a dud...just a plant that my friend had been keeping alive in a 3" square pot for far too long...

I did all the things Skunkman says he does to restore growth...high light intensity and photoperiod, big soil, promote biology , balance nutrient profile and trace and ultra traces, a few toppings to promote root hormone dominance and she is starting to look and grow like you would expect a healthy plant to grow...

Pretty sure this will just be like the TMV bullshit with chem d

Your posts suggest duds come from bugs and genetic material at the same time...

This thread should be "I just got a plant I really wanted from a questionable source and now I'm not happy with the way it's been growing and I haven't spent enough time with it to acclimate it to my set up yet"

 

[siftedunity]

some people still seem confused.
1. broad mites bite your plant
2. now your plant turns into a dud. its a phenomena for sure but its caused but bm's not growers.

and in my guess the bm's might be carrying a virus or disease of whatever, its easy to eradicate forbid or avid being the blame for this.. spray a few healthy plants with avid and forbid, if they dud then its the chemicals causing the duds.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Tarsonemid mites effect commercial crops globally ,

If they had this effect , it would be documented in peer reviewed field research ...

Feeding by cyclamen and broad mites is easily recognized on all hosts because affected leaves become characteristically cupped, dwarfed and thickened, and the internodes are greatly shortened. Broad mite damage occurs more generally over the plant than cyclamen mite damage. Bulb scale mites feeding in developing shoots can cause longitudinal bronze streaks of discoloration, horizontal cracks, distortion, and death of leaves and flowers.

This is the description of what people call duds..except it comes from the UCD management guidelines for tarsonemid mites...

Even user "whadeezlrg" has obtained genetics with broad mites from PO, quarantined and treated for them and was patient with them ... And the guy goes on to win or place and multiple events !

May not be grower error but it's definitely grower hubris to expect plants from questionable source at a public event who documented a tarsonemid mite issue to be stellar as soon as you get them home.

 

[whatthe215]

siftedunity,

it's not broad mites, at least not in the majority of cases. it's also not miticides causing it.

---
lab tests coming soon on infected plants. testing for all fungal and bacterial pathogens and as many viruses as i can afford. including healthy plants and plants from a different spot that have never had issues as a control. roots, stems, leaves and soil.

i know it's a bit annoying when people recommend certain products without conclusive evidence that it helps or whatever, but Actinovate is really helping fight whatever causes these shitty growth characteristics. that's why i really think it's fusarium, verticillium or pythium. so if someone wants to burn $100 a give it a try, id be curious to see if they see any improvement.

i don't know what it is, so i'm just throwing ideas around... shooting in the dark hoping i hit a target.

Obsoul33t said he thinks it's Fusarium Oxysporum that's just finally starting to spread due to intense clone trading.

Downwithdirt has friends who had the issue, and got positive tests back for Fusarium Oxysporum.

 

[Cep]

I just received a gg4 cut recently. The source has positively identified broads on the mother it was cut from yesterday. Growth was slow at first when it was quarantined but now it's in a far corner of my property in a mound of prime soil along with 3 Wifi's that were suspect. They are all on the AEA foliars so your hypothesis will be replicated again backyard.

I really don't want to scrap these plants so my plan is to see how healthy I can get them and take a few cuts in a month and throw them into flower inside to see what happens. The Wifi's are ten days ahead of the gg4 in the mound and its pretty impressive how much better they do under the sun. I'm optimistic.

 

[whatthe215]

These are not my pics, I stole em from the farm... classic dudding in flower. This is the dudding I'm talking about, not broad mite dudding.

Health(ier) TK on the left, dud TK on the right

 

[whatthe215]

 

[Backyard Farmer]

The flower on the left in post 271 looks like it's experiencing a root disease...post 272 looks like the canopy temps were hot and also root disease

 

[Hammerhead]

some people still seem confused.
1. broad mites bite your plant
2. now your plant turns into a dud. its a phenomena for sure but its caused but bm's not growers.

and in my guess the bm's might be carrying a virus or disease of whatever, its easy to eradicate forbid or avid being the blame for this.. spray a few healthy plants with avid and forbid, if they dud then its the chemicals causing the duds.

I have already done this, its not the pesticides. Even at the recommended dosages it's extremely toxic. That's why I don't follow there directions. I read to many posts where people have used the proper dilution and it destroyed all there plants. I don't see this as the problem unless someone used the wrong dosages. That could cause some crazy shit to happen. Plant's unlikely to survive from this though.

 

[whatthe215]

 

[whatthe215]

GSC not dudded

GSC dudded

 

[whatthe215]

The flower on the left in post 271 looks like it's experiencing a root disease...post 272 looks like the canopy temps were hot and also root disease

Right. Now which root disease and how do we treat it? That's the question.

 

[Greyskull]

I just think that it is crazy to say well the sour dub is a dud, too so it must be genetic...because JackMayOffer and a few other cats have the sour dub and it's definitely not sour dud...

...Pretty sure this will just be like the TMV bullshit with chem d...

I don't think any one is saying the sourdubb is a dudd Dusty

I am not anyways... I know it is well capable of turning to dudds on a given moment though...

If this thing is really in fact a fivefingerdeathpunch of fusarium+pythium, then it is definitely not like the TMV thing with the chemd.
it's a real threat

however it started however it spread
by whom for whom whatever
its a true threat

you always have a way with words dusty hahaha
hope life's good on the farm

 

[DIDM]

in this pic posted above, the buds on the right are dead ringers for fusarium

 

[DIDM]

asprin has been found to be carcinogenic recently. I defo would research that a little.


I do know that the bud smells like some hedge plant straight outa someones garden


I heard that about aids too... seriously these kinda rumours are pretty daft. theres not really any proof these come from po. in all fairness many of them smoke greenery themselves along with many other reasons why I doubt its true.

had no problems in the garden, then got clones from PO, next thing you know had to throw everything away

so IMHO, the only thing that changed was clones from PO, and then FML

got rid of everything and no more problems, so yes, PO hands out plant aids FACT