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***DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level***
- Thread starter DrBudGreengenes
- Start date
InPotiTrust
Active member
It's good to see your still around DR.B.....Its all because of you postings why i changed my grow style...
Here are some pics of some of my work in 1l bottles using organic soil-less mix...
These are some Casey Jones..
These are some Kalichakra X Sterling Widow made by a friend a few years ago....It's a long flowering sativa...The first pics are to show start up height before 12/12....
Take it's easy DR.B glad your still around
Here are some pics of some of my work in 1l bottles using organic soil-less mix...
These are some Casey Jones..
These are some Kalichakra X Sterling Widow made by a friend a few years ago....It's a long flowering sativa...The first pics are to show start up height before 12/12....
Take it's easy DR.B glad your still around
trichogg
Member
A tru wizard indeed. I'm reading threw this post from he beginning back in 08 & it's obvious D.r. Remains champ so far... He has inspired many including me to rock cfl'z, I'm posting this right outside of my local nursery now...
Have a nice holiday to all & especialy those who will harvest & recieve a personal stash for our hard work...
Callin all to tha table.
Have a nice holiday to all & especialy those who will harvest & recieve a personal stash for our hard work...
Callin all to tha table.
Thank you Folks...
justwatchin
Member
Um....this thread doesnt exist anymore but there was a guy named Jrosek on here that was the first I saw doing the whole sog with defoiliation thing at 20days and again at . relating to your question he planted in tubs at every 5" good doc says every three works and it does with defoliation. Jrosek was getting 2lb with defiation the beds and 600w so Im sure you'll rock it once you lock it but trust there is allot more to read. I feel like im still learning even now. Some might get mad for littering up the thread but i think it really helps as I use it in my gardens. I'll try and post some of Jrosek's work here lets see...
Hey everyone!
Here's a little peak of how i do it these days...
After many years of trial and error i now use 25 1gal buckets in a 44"x44" area with a 600hps. results are pretty standard, I harvest just around 2lbs every 55 days. These little ladies were at 40 days flower in the pics.
My 2cents!
I veg for 10days from a rooted clone
--------------------------------------------------------
you are absolutely correct about the trimming, I trim all of the fan leaves at 21 days flower and again at 45 days flower, This allows all the lower sight's to get maximum light. I'de have to say im a believer in maximum plant numbers for the maximum weight.
When growing with a 600,many small plants will get much better coverage than bush growing. Of course this is only my opinion and no offense intended to anyone.
JP, I use 65% perlite to 35% vermiculite.
The strain is some old bog bubbleicous that ive had longer than my kids!lol
Peace all, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brastaman
What were your differences between bush and non-bush harvests? One could easily get more than your buddy's 2lbs in 55 days with less than half of the plant numbers.
brasta.
Brasta, Very interesting insight on some of your points.
I have found that with a mixture of 50/50 soil to perlite ( I used to use sunshine# 4) that the root mass was much larger in turn much stronger plants.
I believe this is due to much better ariation. I went soiless at the beginning of the year on an experiment and never went back.
It seems that with a soiless mix of per/verm, that a straight hydro feed program works extremely well with out the hydro system... Hence explosive root system and overall growth. Give it a shot some time, i think you'll like it!
I used to grow bushes as well, outside we used 20 gal containers and grew 3-4lb plants without trimming the fan leaves( if we only new!!)
inside, i used 4-5 gallon buckets and could average 6 zips per plants(4plants)
The most important thing i noticed about shorter multiple plants in 1gal is the penetration. with a 600, we had a difficult time getting the lower parts to finish up properly, we could superharvest but in all would waist an extra month in flower.
The smaller ones average around 15" and fully rippen under 60 days, wich is another benefit with smaller, It cuts a week off flowering with the same strain. Nothing like having the biggest and most potent buds with no scraps left over!
In my experience, i could never achieve 2lbs from bushes with 1 600hps, i would say it's very difficult to even get 1lb.
Anyways, Chime in people, Lets get some experience and knowledge put up here!
Here's a pic from an older outdoor grow, imagine if we would have pruned them! Live and learn!
Peace everyone, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
justwatchin
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
jrosec, I'm intrigued. Do you literally trim ALL of the fan leaves off at 21 and 45 days? Any pics of your procedure? What do the plants look like after trim?
Thanks for all the great info.
Best,
DM
Danger, Im glad your interested, I must say i was shocked when i first heard of this procedure! Everything i knew and learned over 14yrs told me that it was insane to cut off all the fan leaves!
Low and behold, after a couple experiments, there is NO turning back!
After Long and carefull thought of why this works... I come to this conclusion:
1, The bud site itself grows small fan leaves that support the growth of the bud, Do not remove these, You can trim them if they are to large and shading other buds.
2, once the roots are established and the plant is healthy, the support of the large fan leaf is not necessary. I believe they are more essential for outside growth where the conditions are no perfect, watering feeding , ect...
Here is a pic of a set i did awhile back. if i remember correctly, i cut them off at 14 days. this seemed a little to early after it was all said and done, i now wait until 20 days or so to let some lower site's to establish.
I then trim again at day 40 or so to clear out some of the new growth that has accumulated.
A couple pics of some of some fully ripened at 56 days. this strain usually takes 65-68 in a bigger version!
I hope this helps! if you have any other Q's, shoot!
Thanks, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-22-2008 at 06:33 PM..
Leap,
You are welcome bro!
If they were mine... I would prune heavily, It will slow growth for a couple of days but after that, you should notice a considerable increase in the lower bud sites.
Although, if the strain you have can easily convert to hermi i would be cautious... Some strains are very sensitive to stress. ( small chance this will happen)
Make sure you take some before and after pics for us!!
Garden looks great also! Good luck, Jro
Edit: One more thing, Try to stay away from the smaller fan leaves on the bud sights, These are the main source of energy for the bud, If they are large and blocking other sites then carefully trim them back. Take your time, Use my pic as a reference to how they should look.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-27-2008 at 07:23 AM..
KC, Thanks bro, Im happy for you!
Chef, No prob... I would love to have 1 gallon square pots that didn't have holes in the bottom! The round ones work out well though, I am in the process of switching over to beds as we speak, This will allow me to run 40 plants per 600. I have been experimenting with different containers and such, and the beds work extremely well.
One more thing, I did run side by side comparisons with non stripped and stripped, The stripped produce 8grams more than non stripped on average. Everything was the same, light's, feed, ect... The best part of it was and is that there are no under developed buds at all.
Anyways, Peace everyone, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-28-2008 at 11:18 PM..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k
That's amazing yield...
2 lbs under a 600?
wet untrimmed weight right ?
No actually i use a sand bag. lol
2lbs dried, like clock work.
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
jrosec, I'm intrigued. Do you literally trim ALL of the fan leaves off at 21 and 45 days? Any pics of your procedure? What do the plants look like after trim?
Thanks for all the great info.
Best,
DM
Danger, Im glad your interested, I must say i was shocked when i first heard of this procedure! Everything i knew and learned over 14yrs told me that it was insane to cut off all the fan leaves!
Low and behold, after a couple experiments, there is NO turning back!
After Long and carefull thought of why this works... I come to this conclusion:
1, The bud site itself grows small fan leaves that support the growth of the bud, Do not remove these, You can trim them if they are to large and shading other buds.
2, once the roots are established and the plant is healthy, the support of the large fan leaf is not necessary. I believe they are more essential for outside growth where the conditions are no perfect, watering feeding , ect...
Here is a pic of a set i did awhile back. if i remember correctly, i cut them off at 14 days. this seemed a little to early after it was all said and done, i now wait until 20 days or so to let some lower site's to establish.
I then trim again at day 40 or so to clear out some of the new growth that has accumulated.
A couple pics of some of some fully ripened at 56 days. this strain usually takes 65-68 in a bigger version!
I hope this helps! if you have any other Q's, shoot!
Thanks, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-22-2008 at 06:33 PM..
Leap,
You are welcome bro!
If they were mine... I would prune heavily, It will slow growth for a couple of days but after that, you should notice a considerable increase in the lower bud sites.
Although, if the strain you have can easily convert to hermi i would be cautious... Some strains are very sensitive to stress. ( small chance this will happen)
Make sure you take some before and after pics for us!!
Garden looks great also! Good luck, Jro
Edit: One more thing, Try to stay away from the smaller fan leaves on the bud sights, These are the main source of energy for the bud, If they are large and blocking other sites then carefully trim them back. Take your time, Use my pic as a reference to how they should look.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-27-2008 at 07:23 AM..
KC, Thanks bro, Im happy for you!
Chef, No prob... I would love to have 1 gallon square pots that didn't have holes in the bottom! The round ones work out well though, I am in the process of switching over to beds as we speak, This will allow me to run 40 plants per 600. I have been experimenting with different containers and such, and the beds work extremely well.
One more thing, I did run side by side comparisons with non stripped and stripped, The stripped produce 8grams more than non stripped on average. Everything was the same, light's, feed, ect... The best part of it was and is that there are no under developed buds at all.
Anyways, Peace everyone, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 10-28-2008 at 11:18 PM..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k
That's amazing yield...
2 lbs under a 600?
wet untrimmed weight right ?
No actually i use a sand bag. lol
2lbs dried, like clock work.
justwatchin
Member
Hey prod, how are ya.
Well, lets see... Depending on the reflector i would say you want to maximize your usable light pattern. Running 400's i would recommend a short plant's no more than 12 high. 15 days veg of course would be way to long, probably drop in flower as soon as they are rooted well.
I would make a bed to maximise your coverage, lets say a 400 can cover a 30x30 adequately, add in a few extra inches for side lighting from them being next to each other. so we have a bed that is 30"x100", to maximize this i would do clones 5" apart starting at the very end of the bed. this will allow you 100 to 120 cuts.
One impotant aspect to this is strain choice, Ideally you want a indica based to keep them short and packed! ultimately you want 12 grams or so ea. do the math, No veg time and turn around will be fast! if your patient and do this correctly you can achieve 3lbs or so every 60 days.
I like the canna products just fine, I never personally used coco, I hear good things though.
Gotta head out for awhile, I'll check back later for questions.
Peace, jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Prod,
Here's a couple pics of an experiment we ran awhile back...
This is a 30"x10" tub with 12 cuts that went straight to flower and pruned on day 7.
Tub did around 5 zips. Just to give you an idea....
First pics were at day 30, next were day 52, finished to 20% Carmel trich's.
Edit: Correction, My wife just informed me that the bin did 7.25 zips!
https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/39653SANY0498.JPG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 11-02-2008 at 01:20 AM..
Here's a couple more.
This is why we are in the process of switching to beds as well! notice the nice heavy under growth....
Well, lets see... Depending on the reflector i would say you want to maximize your usable light pattern. Running 400's i would recommend a short plant's no more than 12 high. 15 days veg of course would be way to long, probably drop in flower as soon as they are rooted well.
I would make a bed to maximise your coverage, lets say a 400 can cover a 30x30 adequately, add in a few extra inches for side lighting from them being next to each other. so we have a bed that is 30"x100", to maximize this i would do clones 5" apart starting at the very end of the bed. this will allow you 100 to 120 cuts.
One impotant aspect to this is strain choice, Ideally you want a indica based to keep them short and packed! ultimately you want 12 grams or so ea. do the math, No veg time and turn around will be fast! if your patient and do this correctly you can achieve 3lbs or so every 60 days.
I like the canna products just fine, I never personally used coco, I hear good things though.
Gotta head out for awhile, I'll check back later for questions.
Peace, jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Prod,
Here's a couple pics of an experiment we ran awhile back...
This is a 30"x10" tub with 12 cuts that went straight to flower and pruned on day 7.
Tub did around 5 zips. Just to give you an idea....
First pics were at day 30, next were day 52, finished to 20% Carmel trich's.
Edit: Correction, My wife just informed me that the bin did 7.25 zips!
https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/39653SANY0498.JPG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 11-02-2008 at 01:20 AM..
Here's a couple more.
This is why we are in the process of switching to beds as well! notice the nice heavy under growth....
justwatchin
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MynameStitch
I have a quick question jro, great plants btw. How do you know for 100% that trimming the fan leaves does not hurt your yield?
Have you tried this with many strains or just a few?
With my grows I have always gotten smaller buds with trimming fan leaves I tried growing 2 clones side by side same everything one with leaves and one without and ones with the fan leaves grew 30% bigger buds and not popcorn or small size buds....
Your growing style is a cross between scrog and the efficiency of an omega garden....
In my state if you got caught with that grow of yours you would be in deep shit cause they go by plant numbers.
Stitch, Its a good thing i don't live in the states!
the info is in this thread some where, They produce 8g more each in identical situation's. Myself and others i know have great success with this technique! the key is to let the plant establish where you want it, then prune. it will definitely slow vegetative growth. the only thing that stops/slow's growing when removing the large fan leaves are the stems.
The only set back with this is that it takes a couple days longer in flower, which is a week faster than normal due to the size of them anyways...
Peace, jro
--------------------------------------------------------
One thing i failed to mention is... this BOG Bubblicious is a very leafy plant, i could never get good penetration before this technique.
I experimented with a few different time tables during a couple of grows, this is what we ultimately came up with.
I dont have any grows going rite now but am planning a 2 bed grow with 4 600's on a perpetual harvest deal. we will be using 3.5'x7.5' beds, harvest one every month. they will consist of 150 cuts each. we should be able to get 5lbs every month.
It will be a week or 2 until the new room is completed, i will start a thread for anyone that is interested in a start to finish.
one more thing... we did some 4lb lemon skunk/ northern light hybrids this yr. they have 10" fan leaves that are like tarps and the inner growth is usually very under developed. this yr i did allot of trimming and had great results! they key is to prune when the plant has stopped stretching, i also fed them straight veg nutes for the first 3 weeks of flower to let them stretch enough to get good light in.
enough, i could go on all night!!lol
Peace bro, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Thank you for your response ! Okay, so no pots, just a big bed 76 x 254 cm filled with cocos and 100-120 cuttings that will flower straight from the Root Riot cubes,
so maybe I can use 10 of thoose 30"x10" tub's that you showed me on the pic?
What do you think ? Would make it easier to manage. Wonderful pictures.
peace
Edit: 3 more questions,
How tall are your cutting in cm when u feel satisfied that it is rooted well?
I measure mine to about 7 cm... u think this is ok ?
How much g is a zip bag ? Im not familiar with em
When using the canna coco calculator it says to use less nutritients
in veg. Should I use the flower doze from the beginning, or use the veg
doze in 3 weeks then the flower doze ?
peace again
Prod, I like to have a little more root development than the riots provide. maybe you can get some 9once dixie cups and trans to them for a week or so before puttinhg them in the beds... mine are 4-5" tall when they go in.
No, You dont want to feed them nute veg for 3 weeks, They will stretch way to much. give them nute veg for the first week, when they hit 5-6" trim all the large fan leaves off from the main stem, remember... you want to keep them short for the 400's.
What strain do you plan on running? The idea for you is to keep them 10-12" total when there done stretching.
There's 28 grams in a zip, 16 zip's in a elbow...
No, dont run the tubs, you'll lose way to many cuts, a bed is the best way. when your ready, Ill show you how to make a wand feeder that rocks! all for around 100 bucks.
I would recomend a good ph/tds meter! Im not real sure on the canna schedule? I ran there bio's before with good success, However the ec meter doesnt lie, I give 1100 ppm once they are rooted fully. never over 1300.
Peace, Hit me back, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicomen
amazing tek and buds jrosek what is your susbtrate? Im using sog right now but I let them veg for 2 weeks maybe next run ill do what your doing.
nicomen, thank you myfriend!
I use 65% perlite to 35% vermiculite. best combo i have ever run! Only problem is if the plant gets to tall they will fall over and pull roots out wich ofcourse is not wanted.
Give it a try, i will be glad to help!!
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
jrosek: Okay thanks for the advice.
Ill handwater the first run in cocos. I will use four of these as my bed since
I dont have the time to build a big bed by myself. >
http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/90027811
Im planning on running Strawberry cough and Big Bang (Greenhouse),
VEG'ing the moms as we speak.
prod, That should work good.
The medium only needs to be about 5-6" deep with this small of a plant.
I do recomend running only one strain per bed. Ultimately this should be your goal.
Strawberry cough is some great smoke!, I never grew it so im not sure on the girth of her???
You should do sets of 10 or so and train them at different times to see what will ultimately be your best method.
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Could you show me a pic of a rooted cutting that you think would do descent
in the bed? (I mean when u think it will be ready for transplant into the floweringroom) Strawberry cough gets pretty bushy and its pretty tolerant. Ill go with 120 cuttings as you said and
then expand to 130 and maybe even 140, cuz with 4 of thoose ikea beds
I will have some extra room on the sides. Maybe even put an extra 400w hps so
that each bed gets its own?
cherio
Prod, Sorry i dont have a pic of a fully rooted cut.
What you want is this... Plant your root riot in a 9 ounce dixie cup, use what ever medium you plan to put in the beds. feed them accordingly. some strains root faster than others. the idea is to flip the cup and check the roots, when they are filling the cup its time to put them in the beds.
Usually takes 10 to 17 days. this is important to dial in when trying to do a perpetual harvest.
Remember, you want 5" or so in between cuts for proper room. Dont stuff to many in there, sometimes more is not better. I would stick with the rule we discussed earlier. The most important aspect for you to figure out is what your light will cover adequately. Im sure your on the right track!!
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Everybody talks bout this purple urkle
Its impossible to get your hands on where I live.
Jro:
Yeah, I will start a thread to show u the progress asap.
What kind of nutrition do you use for your perlite x vermeculite medium?
I wonder how it would stand up against coco. Perhaps I should compare the two when I have the funds. I have now trimmed the leafs on all my
flowering plants (They are in soil, about 4,5 gallon plasticbags). 10
Big Bangs, and 8 Arjans Haze 3. I hope it will improve my yield, and
I will hook u up with some pics as soon as I've got time.
peace
Prod, I never ran coco, But have heard great things from it.
The perlite/verm is cheap as shit and works wonderfully!
I use AN 3 part to a custom level that works for my strain.
I have found that any nute will work well as long as you dont fry em!
Im sure you girls will benefit from the trim, Post some pics so we can see how your coming along!
How tall are the plants?? Curious to see with the 400's, I might have some good pointers for ya!
Peace, jro
A little porn ................
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef
Just checkin' in
Has anyone done some stripping & left a couple alone for comparison yet?
I put off my Growbag vs SP test for a cycle, plants ended up too far apart in growth pattern. I took a chainsaw to this next batch, they're lookin good & almost ready.
This strain is looking like it likes to be pinched 3 times into 4 mains w/4 tips each
7g per tip = my QP goal, last 12 tipper was right on target @ 4.25 zips bone dry.
I'm hoping 16 mains, 7gal SPs, minor LST work, organic brewer & drip to waste system will push 5 zips. we'll see?
You cab see on the pic where I call it quits on trimming.
ONLY trim those that are blocking light from something important!
10gal Smart Pot test: 4.25 oz @ 58 days 12/12, aprox 100 days total.
cheers
Chef,
Very impressive bro! What kind of time frame does it take to make that many tops? I have a single 400 i'de like to try that on.
Here is a couple pics. 14 day flower and then 40 day flower. same girls..
Peace all........
Originally Posted by MynameStitch
I have a quick question jro, great plants btw. How do you know for 100% that trimming the fan leaves does not hurt your yield?
Have you tried this with many strains or just a few?
With my grows I have always gotten smaller buds with trimming fan leaves I tried growing 2 clones side by side same everything one with leaves and one without and ones with the fan leaves grew 30% bigger buds and not popcorn or small size buds....
Your growing style is a cross between scrog and the efficiency of an omega garden....
In my state if you got caught with that grow of yours you would be in deep shit cause they go by plant numbers.
Stitch, Its a good thing i don't live in the states!
the info is in this thread some where, They produce 8g more each in identical situation's. Myself and others i know have great success with this technique! the key is to let the plant establish where you want it, then prune. it will definitely slow vegetative growth. the only thing that stops/slow's growing when removing the large fan leaves are the stems.
The only set back with this is that it takes a couple days longer in flower, which is a week faster than normal due to the size of them anyways...
Peace, jro
--------------------------------------------------------
One thing i failed to mention is... this BOG Bubblicious is a very leafy plant, i could never get good penetration before this technique.
I experimented with a few different time tables during a couple of grows, this is what we ultimately came up with.
I dont have any grows going rite now but am planning a 2 bed grow with 4 600's on a perpetual harvest deal. we will be using 3.5'x7.5' beds, harvest one every month. they will consist of 150 cuts each. we should be able to get 5lbs every month.
It will be a week or 2 until the new room is completed, i will start a thread for anyone that is interested in a start to finish.
one more thing... we did some 4lb lemon skunk/ northern light hybrids this yr. they have 10" fan leaves that are like tarps and the inner growth is usually very under developed. this yr i did allot of trimming and had great results! they key is to prune when the plant has stopped stretching, i also fed them straight veg nutes for the first 3 weeks of flower to let them stretch enough to get good light in.
enough, i could go on all night!!lol
Peace bro, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Thank you for your response ! Okay, so no pots, just a big bed 76 x 254 cm filled with cocos and 100-120 cuttings that will flower straight from the Root Riot cubes,
so maybe I can use 10 of thoose 30"x10" tub's that you showed me on the pic?
What do you think ? Would make it easier to manage. Wonderful pictures.
peace
Edit: 3 more questions,
How tall are your cutting in cm when u feel satisfied that it is rooted well?
I measure mine to about 7 cm... u think this is ok ?
How much g is a zip bag ? Im not familiar with em
When using the canna coco calculator it says to use less nutritients
in veg. Should I use the flower doze from the beginning, or use the veg
doze in 3 weeks then the flower doze ?
peace again
Prod, I like to have a little more root development than the riots provide. maybe you can get some 9once dixie cups and trans to them for a week or so before puttinhg them in the beds... mine are 4-5" tall when they go in.
No, You dont want to feed them nute veg for 3 weeks, They will stretch way to much. give them nute veg for the first week, when they hit 5-6" trim all the large fan leaves off from the main stem, remember... you want to keep them short for the 400's.
What strain do you plan on running? The idea for you is to keep them 10-12" total when there done stretching.
There's 28 grams in a zip, 16 zip's in a elbow...
No, dont run the tubs, you'll lose way to many cuts, a bed is the best way. when your ready, Ill show you how to make a wand feeder that rocks! all for around 100 bucks.
I would recomend a good ph/tds meter! Im not real sure on the canna schedule? I ran there bio's before with good success, However the ec meter doesnt lie, I give 1100 ppm once they are rooted fully. never over 1300.
Peace, Hit me back, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicomen
amazing tek and buds jrosek what is your susbtrate? Im using sog right now but I let them veg for 2 weeks maybe next run ill do what your doing.
nicomen, thank you myfriend!
I use 65% perlite to 35% vermiculite. best combo i have ever run! Only problem is if the plant gets to tall they will fall over and pull roots out wich ofcourse is not wanted.
Give it a try, i will be glad to help!!
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
jrosek: Okay thanks for the advice.
Ill handwater the first run in cocos. I will use four of these as my bed since
I dont have the time to build a big bed by myself. >
http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/90027811
Im planning on running Strawberry cough and Big Bang (Greenhouse),
VEG'ing the moms as we speak.
prod, That should work good.
The medium only needs to be about 5-6" deep with this small of a plant.
I do recomend running only one strain per bed. Ultimately this should be your goal.
Strawberry cough is some great smoke!, I never grew it so im not sure on the girth of her???
You should do sets of 10 or so and train them at different times to see what will ultimately be your best method.
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Could you show me a pic of a rooted cutting that you think would do descent
in the bed? (I mean when u think it will be ready for transplant into the floweringroom) Strawberry cough gets pretty bushy and its pretty tolerant. Ill go with 120 cuttings as you said and
then expand to 130 and maybe even 140, cuz with 4 of thoose ikea beds
I will have some extra room on the sides. Maybe even put an extra 400w hps so
that each bed gets its own?
cherio
Prod, Sorry i dont have a pic of a fully rooted cut.
What you want is this... Plant your root riot in a 9 ounce dixie cup, use what ever medium you plan to put in the beds. feed them accordingly. some strains root faster than others. the idea is to flip the cup and check the roots, when they are filling the cup its time to put them in the beds.
Usually takes 10 to 17 days. this is important to dial in when trying to do a perpetual harvest.
Remember, you want 5" or so in between cuts for proper room. Dont stuff to many in there, sometimes more is not better. I would stick with the rule we discussed earlier. The most important aspect for you to figure out is what your light will cover adequately. Im sure your on the right track!!
Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Everybody talks bout this purple urkle
Its impossible to get your hands on where I live.Jro:
Yeah, I will start a thread to show u the progress asap.
What kind of nutrition do you use for your perlite x vermeculite medium?
I wonder how it would stand up against coco. Perhaps I should compare the two when I have the funds. I have now trimmed the leafs on all my
flowering plants (They are in soil, about 4,5 gallon plasticbags). 10
Big Bangs, and 8 Arjans Haze 3. I hope it will improve my yield, and
I will hook u up with some pics as soon as I've got time.
peace
Prod, I never ran coco, But have heard great things from it.
The perlite/verm is cheap as shit and works wonderfully!
I use AN 3 part to a custom level that works for my strain.
I have found that any nute will work well as long as you dont fry em!
Im sure you girls will benefit from the trim, Post some pics so we can see how your coming along!
How tall are the plants?? Curious to see with the 400's, I might have some good pointers for ya!
Peace, jro
A little porn ................
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef
Just checkin' in
Has anyone done some stripping & left a couple alone for comparison yet?
I put off my Growbag vs SP test for a cycle, plants ended up too far apart in growth pattern. I took a chainsaw to this next batch, they're lookin good & almost ready.
This strain is looking like it likes to be pinched 3 times into 4 mains w/4 tips each
7g per tip = my QP goal, last 12 tipper was right on target @ 4.25 zips bone dry.
I'm hoping 16 mains, 7gal SPs, minor LST work, organic brewer & drip to waste system will push 5 zips. we'll see?
You cab see on the pic where I call it quits on trimming.
ONLY trim those that are blocking light from something important!
10gal Smart Pot test: 4.25 oz @ 58 days 12/12, aprox 100 days total.
cheers
Chef,
Very impressive bro! What kind of time frame does it take to make that many tops? I have a single 400 i'de like to try that on.
Here is a couple pics. 14 day flower and then 40 day flower. same girls..
Peace all........
justwatchin
Member
Whats up guys!
DHF, Still working on the room, cuts are about 5 days away from there new homes!
I mentioned 5" apart in a post to a fellow enthusiast awhile back. But, since you mentioned it!
I am working on it as we speak. Here is a little peak and info...
Remember, this was an experiment for my upcoming beds.
What we have here is 72 cuts in 10"x30" bins under one 600 spaced 5" apart.
They went straight into flowering from rooted clone and stripped at dat 5 of flower.
The plan is to run 2- 5'x10' tables with 288 cuts per table under 2 1000's.
we will harvest 1 table every 28 days or so. the goal is to achieve astronomical #'s!!!!
After cutting these ones today i can tell you the average dry weight will be rite around 15 grams each, do the math my friends!!!
I know im gonna get some serious feedback for stating this but... look at the pics, Proof is in the pudding!!!
I have worked long and hard tweeking this system. I believe i will hit the 2.4 lbs with this experiment under 1-600, and will shoot for 9.5lbs under 2-1000's.
So there you have have, Let's see how many believers there will be!!LOL
Peace all! Jro
DHF, Still working on the room, cuts are about 5 days away from there new homes!
I mentioned 5" apart in a post to a fellow enthusiast awhile back. But, since you mentioned it!
I am working on it as we speak. Here is a little peak and info...
Remember, this was an experiment for my upcoming beds.
What we have here is 72 cuts in 10"x30" bins under one 600 spaced 5" apart.
They went straight into flowering from rooted clone and stripped at dat 5 of flower.
The plan is to run 2- 5'x10' tables with 288 cuts per table under 2 1000's.
we will harvest 1 table every 28 days or so. the goal is to achieve astronomical #'s!!!!
After cutting these ones today i can tell you the average dry weight will be rite around 15 grams each, do the math my friends!!!
I know im gonna get some serious feedback for stating this but... look at the pics, Proof is in the pudding!!!
I have worked long and hard tweeking this system. I believe i will hit the 2.4 lbs with this experiment under 1-600, and will shoot for 9.5lbs under 2-1000's.
So there you have have, Let's see how many believers there will be!!LOL
Peace all! Jro
justwatchin
Member
Last edited by jrosek; 11-24-2008 at 03:48 PM..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEDHEDFRED
Hey Jro.........I`m with yas 100%......Break the so-called finite laws of the elusive "GPW".................lol..... ....
What`s the spacing between plants for 288 in a 5'x10' table.......
Or is it 144 per table x`s 2 tables for a plant total of 288......
What nutes do you use and how often do you feed.........
How deep will your beds be.........
Ok enuff outta me........Thanks for your time Bro.......Grow Hard............
Peace.........DHF........... ...........
DHF, There will be 288 per table at 5" spacing, harvest 1 table every month or so.
I have been using AN 3 part, Its good , however it produces way to much foliage for me! Gonna go back to GH powder with some additives for this new run, Sometimes the basics are the way to go! I feed evry other Day.
The beds will be filled 5-6", no need for anymore than that with these little ladies. Average height will be around 12".
Peace bro, Thanks for joinen in! Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 11-24-2008 at 03:44 P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Metal
A few questions, in your first pic you said you harved 2lbs with 25plants under one 600watt? So what did you pull of each one, cause later in the thread you said you got 15grams off each plant. Shit never been able to even get more then a lb if that off a 600. On a light mover got around 20oz's with 9 ladies bush style. Iv read the whole thread maybe i missed it but what medium do you start with in the red cups?
Also im confused at how your pots have no holes where does the run off go? After reading the whole dam thread and living year after year with 600's and getting 14-17 oz im gonna have to give this a whirl. So let me see if i got this right using you mix feed them hydro nutes at a 5.8 ph and trim as stated. I guess im just a little confused as to how to feed them in that kind of medium, like did i over water, under water ect ect. Im getting fucking tired of buying bag after bag and mixing my own shit. Its time for a change and jrosek you have made me have some hope. Never thought it was possible to get 2lbs off 600.
Anyways sorry for all the questions but dam im impressed what else can i say. Keep doing what your doing, cant wait to see your bed setup grabs popcorn and a chair good luck mate
.
twisted, If you noticed in the pics, i have been running different setups under the 4 600's, The originals were 1.25 gallon buckets.
In the quest for maximum yield we have experimented with different containers, spacing, height, veg time, ect........
In the buckets, 1.25zip per cut was the norm, in the bed (style) 15g per cut was the norm. The difference being, you can run 25-30 1 gal buckets, or 80 to 120 in a bed under a 600. I do benefit from the 600's being next to each other for added side lighting will allow you to run a bit bigger foot pattern.
As for the no wholes.... Well, in this system, i have it dialed in well enough that i dont have to flush or have run off. It takes some time, but ultimately if you know your strain and feed this is no problem. I myself will never mix a bag of dirt again!lol
I would have to go on for hours to explain all the details wich i cant do, however, i will be more than happy to try and help you along. There is a lot of info in this thread and the 600 watt club thread on my practices.
The medium is 65% perlite to 35% vermiculite. I use straight hydro nutes mixed to the gallon specifications at a ph of 5.8 to 6, The smaller cuts in the beds recieve 20oz of feed every 2 days., I never feed over 1100ppm. I give them ph adjusted plain water every 4th feed. This helps prevent salt build up.
Another nice thing is, the perlite can be reused over and over.
It is very difficult to over water in this system! The biggest thing is to make sure your cuts are healthy and well rooted before putting them in the medium. you must lite feed them until they are rooted in the medium, When i transplant mine, the medium is moist with a full strength nute, once the cut is inserted, i give 10oz or so to each cut (veg nute), I will not feed again for 4 days or so to let the roots establish. Then its a full feed, wait 3 days or so and then its every 2 days.
My advice my friend, Take 100 cuts now, I will walk you threw it while they root! This system is so easy even a dumb fuck like me can do it!
The key to this system is your strain, You must have a decent yielding indica strain!!! Start growing a few mothers while were at it!
Thats enough for now! Sorry for the spelling and such, my wifes in bed and cant ck my work!lol
Peace, jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Here is an example of the bucket verses bed.
In pic one a 19g cut from the bed.
pic 2 is an easy 35-40g cut from the bucket.
The averages are done when they are all dried and tallied. Peace, Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
justwatchin
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brastaman
hiya jrosek, is that one of the lemonskunks in the last pic?
the last few crops i have inched closer to soilless mediums. i have had to adjust the feeding schedule accordingly but am excited to see and learn from your experiements.
i can say also that larger pots in my garden results in larger yields. Do you have any concerns that your 10"x30" tubs will be big enough to hold so many plants in one container? i have tried beds and my mistake was no allowing for enough root growth.
Brasta, Whats up my brotha!
The pics are the bubble, The lemon skunks do not fit my system, They are to tall. We run the LS outside.
In the last to pics you can see the difference in size with the same strain. This is done in the timing and training. I only used the tubs while i was experimenting with timing and such, I had 12 cuts in each 10x30" container. Now that i am dialed in on my system, all the cuts will go in the new beds coming up!! Im losing alot of cuts by the hour tho, Had a heating problem the other night and the clone room was down to 30 degrees for 8hrs!!! The plan is to run 288 cuts in a 5'x10' table x 2 under 4 1000's. At the rate im losing them i may have to make some serious changes or just scrap them all and start fresh in another week or so.
Bro, i can tell you that with soil you must have larger pots to gain weight. but in this type system i can grow a 6oz plant in 1.5 gallon bucket in 75 days from a rooted clone. No bullshhh!
I hear ya on the root growth, The most important aspect to the bed system is fully rooted clones before they go in the beds!!! I cant stress this enough when going straight to flower... This will depict the health and uniform of SOG. A rooted rapid rooter or 1" rockwool cube will leave you with small scrawny plants if transplanted into flower, That is why i let a 9oz cup get rooted for the trans. (usually takes 2.5 weeks from cut)
Anyways, Thanks for the support and i hope this helps!
One more thing bro, If you must use soil, I recomend sunshine#4 with 50% perlite, Next best thing to soilless, In my opinion ofcourse!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 11-25-2008 at 06:55 PM..
Originally Posted by chef
I'm grinnin' not laughin'.
Know very well what a true SOG can do, used to pull 1.5-2lbs per 4x8 bed. 132 per bed.
My clone dome was a king size waterbed frame covered in 3ft industrial Saran Wrap under a 1k vert MH
rock on!
So bro, What made you change from the beds? Sounds like you were hitten it, speedo's and all, LOL, sorry man... still stuck on that one!
King size bed, thats a great idea with the cover for humidity! My clone room is packed! I just cut all new clones for the big bed, Im gonna toss whats left of the damaged ones in the 600 system. I need to figure out something like your makeshift dome. im running 2 humidifiers in the room with an electric fan heater, It's like pissen in the wind, they both are cancelling each other out.lol
Peace bro! Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Twisted, Chef is correct (as usual!lol)
Here are a couple options for ya...
This is a 600 0n 48"x48", there are 30 1.25 gallon buckets. The buckets are a little big for this set up but its all we had at the time. these girls were put directly in from a FULLY rooted clone, they are at 44 days in the pic. they chould do 30 grams + each or so. reflective sideing or an extra t-8 ballast is a must on a table this big for a 600, the back of the hood just doesnt cover very well.
Option 2, My now favorite! This was an experiment also and since has been revised. the table is 44"x44" and has 49 cuts in it at 6" spacing. we will now be doing 5" ect.... she should do 25 grams each.
Peace, Jro
pic 1&2 buckets
Pic 3 small bed
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Heya !
I planted my cuttings in cups with coco but without
the rapid rooters. I hope this works. They have been
in the cups for about a week now, and I see no roots yet
Some leaves on the cuttings has also started
to turn yellow. Maybe i took too small cuttings.
One hps ballast ignitor is broken aswell >:| so now I
only have two bulbs working.
Originally Posted by Brastaman
hiya jrosek, is that one of the lemonskunks in the last pic?
the last few crops i have inched closer to soilless mediums. i have had to adjust the feeding schedule accordingly but am excited to see and learn from your experiements.
i can say also that larger pots in my garden results in larger yields. Do you have any concerns that your 10"x30" tubs will be big enough to hold so many plants in one container? i have tried beds and my mistake was no allowing for enough root growth.
Brasta, Whats up my brotha!
The pics are the bubble, The lemon skunks do not fit my system, They are to tall. We run the LS outside.
In the last to pics you can see the difference in size with the same strain. This is done in the timing and training. I only used the tubs while i was experimenting with timing and such, I had 12 cuts in each 10x30" container. Now that i am dialed in on my system, all the cuts will go in the new beds coming up!! Im losing alot of cuts by the hour tho, Had a heating problem the other night and the clone room was down to 30 degrees for 8hrs!!! The plan is to run 288 cuts in a 5'x10' table x 2 under 4 1000's. At the rate im losing them i may have to make some serious changes or just scrap them all and start fresh in another week or so.
Bro, i can tell you that with soil you must have larger pots to gain weight. but in this type system i can grow a 6oz plant in 1.5 gallon bucket in 75 days from a rooted clone. No bullshhh!
I hear ya on the root growth, The most important aspect to the bed system is fully rooted clones before they go in the beds!!! I cant stress this enough when going straight to flower... This will depict the health and uniform of SOG. A rooted rapid rooter or 1" rockwool cube will leave you with small scrawny plants if transplanted into flower, That is why i let a 9oz cup get rooted for the trans. (usually takes 2.5 weeks from cut)
Anyways, Thanks for the support and i hope this helps!
One more thing bro, If you must use soil, I recomend sunshine#4 with 50% perlite, Next best thing to soilless, In my opinion ofcourse!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 11-25-2008 at 06:55 PM..
Originally Posted by chef
I'm grinnin' not laughin'.
Know very well what a true SOG can do, used to pull 1.5-2lbs per 4x8 bed. 132 per bed.
My clone dome was a king size waterbed frame covered in 3ft industrial Saran Wrap under a 1k vert MH
rock on!
So bro, What made you change from the beds? Sounds like you were hitten it, speedo's and all, LOL, sorry man... still stuck on that one!
King size bed, thats a great idea with the cover for humidity! My clone room is packed! I just cut all new clones for the big bed, Im gonna toss whats left of the damaged ones in the 600 system. I need to figure out something like your makeshift dome. im running 2 humidifiers in the room with an electric fan heater, It's like pissen in the wind, they both are cancelling each other out.lol
Peace bro! Jro
--------------------------------------------------------
Twisted, Chef is correct (as usual!lol)
Here are a couple options for ya...
This is a 600 0n 48"x48", there are 30 1.25 gallon buckets. The buckets are a little big for this set up but its all we had at the time. these girls were put directly in from a FULLY rooted clone, they are at 44 days in the pic. they chould do 30 grams + each or so. reflective sideing or an extra t-8 ballast is a must on a table this big for a 600, the back of the hood just doesnt cover very well.
Option 2, My now favorite! This was an experiment also and since has been revised. the table is 44"x44" and has 49 cuts in it at 6" spacing. we will now be doing 5" ect.... she should do 25 grams each.
Peace, Jro
pic 1&2 buckets
Pic 3 small bed
--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by prod
Heya !
I planted my cuttings in cups with coco but without
the rapid rooters. I hope this works. They have been
in the cups for about a week now, and I see no roots yet
Some leaves on the cuttings has also startedto turn yellow. Maybe i took too small cuttings.
One hps ballast ignitor is broken aswell >:| so now I
only have two bulbs working.
justwatchin
Member
Hey bro,
I have never cloned in coco? The yellowing is common to overwatering, fert, ect... You can use the rooters if you have success with them, just transplant the rooters in the dixies after the rooters show roots, and let them root.
You can get an ignitor at any electrical out let store, Just take it in and say... Hey i need one of these himmamajeebes..lol
Couple pics in a minute.
I have never cloned in coco? The yellowing is common to overwatering, fert, ect... You can use the rooters if you have success with them, just transplant the rooters in the dixies after the rooters show roots, and let them root.
You can get an ignitor at any electrical out let store, Just take it in and say... Hey i need one of these himmamajeebes..lol
Couple pics in a minute.
justwatchin
Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 12-12-2008 at 02:35 PM..
6" fellas, Thats all it takes.
The bed i showed is at 5", it does not house as many cuts as i wanted. 119 where it should have been 152 under 2 600's
We are still gonna break 6lbs with 2 600's on this run! Watch and see.................
Oh ya... this bed is 40" x 96" under 2 600's.
--------------------------------------------------------
Holes are for pussy's (get it?)lol
Looking real good there! I would say the yellowing and drooping is from to much water in the cup. This will delay rooting considerably! Put em under a heating pad or seedling mat to try and dry them out.
Remember... When they are fresh cuts, Just a little water at the stem to keep it moist, the outer soil should be just moist enough to send the newly formed roots searching for water. Also, try to find the same size cup that is not clear. the light will stop the roots from growing, place the clear cup in the colored cup. This is the method i do so i can pull the clear cup out and check root developement.
Peace bro! Jro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jrosek; 12-12-2008 at 05:05 PM..
justwatchin
Member
Wow, didn’t realize that took up so much space. I tried to post all the good parts. This thread came out and went through the door before the stickied k33Ftr33z thread in the hydro section but I thought it was invaluable to my grow knowledge at the time so I saved it. i hope it helps anyone who has tried the DR B method, founds the good Dr. B method definitely works when done right, and is ready to move on to something bigger but doesn't quite know how. I couldn’t imagine what Jro could have done in coco/perlite combo, or more coco/perlite bed combo with a coliseum with his methods on defoliation and no veg.
The Dr B method is excellent for personal grows, seed runs, experiments with new nutes and/or techniques, and head stashes (not that hps/mh combo is bad but I havent found a better product than combo cfls and reptile uvb, divide the cfls with acrylic sheet from home depot and vent seperate, have uvb under acrylic 4hrs per light cycle), and just about everything else that you wanna do without dedicating a large whole grow to without knowing first.
The Dr B method is excellent for personal grows, seed runs, experiments with new nutes and/or techniques, and head stashes (not that hps/mh combo is bad but I havent found a better product than combo cfls and reptile uvb, divide the cfls with acrylic sheet from home depot and vent seperate, have uvb under acrylic 4hrs per light cycle), and just about everything else that you wanna do without dedicating a large whole grow to without knowing first.
justwatchin
Member
I’m making a control box as identical as I can to dr’s (cfl, 16oz Gatorade/Kitty Litter, strains). I don’t understand what dr does with his smell though. Just that he vents it out the side with 2 Daytons and it appears they exhaust into a wall in a closed space and that his boxes have no doors. Maybe I should just use 2 daytons in each box that exhaust into the closet room? Sounds expensive and smelly.
balance & no behavior
I battled with this question in my head for a while. If your sticking it in a closet the best solution that I have found after buying 2 and three fans is after you have seperated the lights you really dont need that much to vent the grow and filter it. I have found the best solution is to build a room around your flowering area and vent the lights seperatley.
I have built a room to enclose my box in the closet. The box is an exact replica of his smaller box. Its has 8 42w and 2 24" uvb and is on wheels. The area it is in is 2ft by 4ft 3ft to the top of the box. Ive created a room around the box in panda using those dementions. I have a 6 inch duct wrapped in panda for intake and to the 2*4*3 room a 10*10 intake on the box itself vented into a home made filter with a 75CFM computer fan pullung through about 3"of carbon most likely cutting down the air in the box moving to about 25 to 22cfm. The intake for the lights is the same 6" intake for the room. The intake for the lights on the box itself is 10"*3" and has a 100x TD mix vent fan on a four inch duct.
So the air moving through the box is 22-25. The air moving around the box and through the 8 42w lights is 100 or a little less and thats enough so that I dont smell a damn thing running soursIBL's, chemd, happybrothers, SSH and and Gypsies C99 in the same box. and yet the temp only goes up 2 degrees above ambient and goes up 5*F above ambient when the uvb lights are on. cfls are very easy to cool once there is air flowing over it. The are only two fans, the computer and the mixed vent fan, and it does the job. Strain does not matter, only start hight and container size.
I tried going up to 14*42w per the 2.33sq ft giving me 15622 lumens per sq ft during the winter. My yield did go up, but the high turned to shit no matter when I harvest, and I do mean shit compared to what was coming out of there before with the exact same clones. 8*42w at 8927 lumens per square ft is giving me my best yield to quality ratio so far.
justwatchin
Member
[
Dr since your back, have you done any additional playing around with the double headers?
Ive been able to get many double headers, it did add to my yield when I did it in flower, but the best double headers I got was 3 19gram plants that were double headed in veg. As soon as the double heads and bud sights had a little growth like 2-3days I remove the two fan leaves where the double headers are forming. I found that if I dont and throw them directly into flower Some HUGE fan leafs form where the double headers are forming then the plants start and stretch the same but there is allot more gap where the huge fan leaves are and the two BIGHEAD buds form on the same stem. When I defoliate in veg after the double header has formed I get it to look exactly like your 21grammer. So in all it adds about 7days from just cut clone to the flower.
this is an example of the double header done in flower like I have talked about I did back in 2010 before i fixed the vent problem. I dont have pics of the current sets on hand as I didnt take pics as it didnt seem like anyone was interested. but maybe I was writing like an a-hole
If you want me to remove Jrosek's stuff let me know
Bro ....you are "Looking Good" Mang'.....and as far as my 21 gram cut ...it was a two headed Beast....after you learn to get them to finish where you want.....then it's SOG 102....
learnin' to make a two headed beast out of your gurls....that is where ya can get a nice increase in yur yield.
Note that it is not a two stemed plant it only splits to make 2 top colas...two stems takes up to much room....we only want one stem w/ 2 top colas
This is a "Sweet Sativa" done this way.
Dr since your back, have you done any additional playing around with the double headers?
Ive been able to get many double headers, it did add to my yield when I did it in flower, but the best double headers I got was 3 19gram plants that were double headed in veg. As soon as the double heads and bud sights had a little growth like 2-3days I remove the two fan leaves where the double headers are forming. I found that if I dont and throw them directly into flower Some HUGE fan leafs form where the double headers are forming then the plants start and stretch the same but there is allot more gap where the huge fan leaves are and the two BIGHEAD buds form on the same stem. When I defoliate in veg after the double header has formed I get it to look exactly like your 21grammer. So in all it adds about 7days from just cut clone to the flower.
this is an example of the double header done in flower like I have talked about I did back in 2010 before i fixed the vent problem. I dont have pics of the current sets on hand as I didnt take pics as it didnt seem like anyone was interested. but maybe I was writing like an a-hole
If you want me to remove Jrosek's stuff let me know
Tatz
Member
I am totally with DrGreengenes here. In the old days, be4 WWW, smokers were brothers and sisters, peaceful people. Nobody would (troll) hate or swear at eachother.
All the a**holes who throw garbage in other peoples' threads, why do you bother reading ? Just leave.
I tried the DrBud-way, never got to the point of getting it all dialed in, almost lost the wifey, lost the house and the cab.
Am getting on my feet again (as does the Doc !), but have to start from scratch again.
Peace people, and chill, please !!
All the a**holes who throw garbage in other peoples' threads, why do you bother reading ? Just leave.
I tried the DrBud-way, never got to the point of getting it all dialed in, almost lost the wifey, lost the house and the cab.
Am getting on my feet again (as does the Doc !), but have to start from scratch again.
Peace people, and chill, please !!
Is there a trick to it? Or its through breeding? If theres a trick i want it too!!
You mean topping?
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