Joint Lock
Active member
Ok ..... Apogee meters say different . Maybe start there
https://news.samsung.com/global/sam...-level-in-white-led-packages-for-indoor-farms
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Ok ..... Apogee meters say different . Maybe start there
https://news.samsung.com/global/sam...-level-in-white-led-packages-for-indoor-farms
This is the difference between top bin and low bin, pulled from Samsung data sheets. "H" versions will be SM or SL bin only, while "B" versions could be any of those bins. The difference between low bin at 28 and top bin at 42 is over a 50% increased in output. So, yeah it potentially makes a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that if you mix dins on a circuit board you risk internal thermal runoff.
https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2020/03/Data_Sheet_LM301H_CRI80_Rev.5.1.pdf
https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2020/03/Data_Sheet_LM301B_CRI80_Rev.10.0.pdf
Attachments
The low output ones you refer to are also lower colour temp which explains the difference. They aren't bad bins. The phosphor conversion to make reds is not a free lunch and you lose photons. That is why high cct white leds always have higher efficacy than lower cct even though blue photons take more energy to produce.
Good point. I should have considered that. Even so, you're still looking at around a 20% difference in output between top bin and bottom bin if you look at 3k diodes.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
I don't, but post a picture of it.
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
that spread is across different light color temps. the spread is much lower in the same color range.
SuperBadGrower
Active member
Those claims I have been sharing should be nuanced then. If this is the case there is only no difference between the b and the h if you get top bin b, which many of them claim to get. Ofc it's impossible for 99.9% of buyers to check which bin the diodes actually are so anyone can say they get top bin diodes. And naturally they can sell b as h with the same ease. The commercial LED game is so full of lies. Samsung being this way with nomenclature etc certainly doesn't help. It even can start from the source as different manufacturers have released datasheets that are rife with editing errors. And they never bother to fix them.
Anyway it's a really specific discussion. In a while nobody will be talking about this lm301 stuff anymore because there will be something new to get confused about. The commercial LED sellers will always find ways to either lie or save $.
Thankfully now there are people with good sensors doing PAR tests for everyone to see. That is a real blessing. If you looking to buy a commercial light, try to verify it with some reviewers. If it doesn't have a test done don't bother I say. Some of those reviewers are cheapskate ultra shills but I've seen plenty times that a light which is supposed to flower a 5x5 is actually good for a 3x4 or something. If you believe the seller's claim and use it in actual 5x5 you'll end up with worse results than you are used to with HPS for sure.
Klompen
Active member
Sure thing! I can make sense of some of it, but not all...
This is for the "full spectrum white" LEDs the Chinese are selling now. They have driverless COB chips, and individual LEDs with this same basic graph.
The spectrum looks awesome, but i see 40.3lm/w and that's horrible.
[Edit] if that's what it actually says. Not so sure anymore..
[Edit2] yeah, that's what it says
Klompen
Active member
LOL I was so confused about that part too. I looked at the font and that's definitely a 1 and not a lower-case L. I have no idea what that measurement means though.
It means the efficacy is very low, if that is what they are saying. Led bulbs produce 100lm per watt and good leds 150-200.
Klompen
Active member
The manufacturer told me on Alibaba that the blurple ones are 90-100lm/watt(bin dependent) and 110-120lm/watt for the full spectrum white
Yes, you are correct, as horselover also pointed out. That said however, the difference is still around 15% to 20%, which is a lot. In real world terms a 20% difference is like comparing a 500w lamp to a 600w lamp, very significant.
LouDog420
Well-known member
On the original general topic, I'm documenting a side by side using 260w of LED and 400w of HPS both in a 3x3 space that may be of interest.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=375258
All is certainly interesting and efficiency talk is a bit beyond me, but I'll be watching the discussion here. Thanks for all that add their input.
Good vibes
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=375258
All is certainly interesting and efficiency talk is a bit beyond me, but I'll be watching the discussion here. Thanks for all that add their input.
Good vibes
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
it is indeed and it would almost be mandatory for these china builders to prove what bin chips they are purchasing from samsung
Klompen,
the specs of your driverless cob seem to indicate a high cri low efficency led which i assume is good to use for photography. The cri(ra) is rated at 95 so a lower efficency is normal but this low(40lm/w) seems to be a generally very bad efficency product. I would stay away and look at classic cobs like bridgelux vero or cree cxb.
Regarding bins,
from the early cob days the bins are among the most important info about the led itself. Any production series has variations and nobody wants to pay the same for inferior products from the same series... For certain the alibaba sellers dont have top bin leds at the lowest prices, it's nonsense, so as always... you get what you pay for.
Cheers
the specs of your driverless cob seem to indicate a high cri low efficency led which i assume is good to use for photography. The cri(ra) is rated at 95 so a lower efficency is normal but this low(40lm/w) seems to be a generally very bad efficency product. I would stay away and look at classic cobs like bridgelux vero or cree cxb.
Regarding bins,
from the early cob days the bins are among the most important info about the led itself. Any production series has variations and nobody wants to pay the same for inferior products from the same series... For certain the alibaba sellers dont have top bin leds at the lowest prices, it's nonsense, so as always... you get what you pay for.
Cheers
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
thats a noteworthy diff nonetheless. if Meijiu or Kingbrite can prove what they are buying is lm301H or top bin lm301b diodes then it would do wonders for their reputations
Klompen
Active member
I don't know what that stat on the chart is, but its definitely not lm/w. That's a 1 not an l. Their stated efficiency according to the manufacturer is 110-120 lumens/watt running at full power. I am not sure how dimming would impact that.
